iFi audio xCAN - The Official Thread
Nov 5, 2018 at 10:44 PM Post #166 of 757
Gg


I’m trying to understand this statement, because in my mind, the input does determine the output when it comes to being balanced or not.

If I input a balanced signal to the 2.5mm input, I get the same signal to the 2.5mm output. Of course, there will be a gain difference, and if one uses xBASS II or 3D+, the signal is altered by those options, but the innate nature of the signal, whether it’s balanced or not, remains the same. This applies to single ended 3.5mm inputs as well.

One question, though, do both outputs function with only one input signal, e.g., a balanced input is balanced on the 2.5 output, but singled ended on the 3.5 output?

I was referring to the fact that no matter whether the input is BT, 3.5mm TRS or 2.5mm TRRS the xCAN will provide either the 3.5mm S-balanced or the 2.5mm balanced output depending on whichever jack you plug your headphones into.
 
Nov 5, 2018 at 11:09 PM Post #167 of 757
I was referring to the fact that no matter whether the input is BT, 3.5mm TRS or 2.5mm TRRS the xCAN will provide either the 3.5mm S-balanced or the 2.5mm balanced output depending on whichever jack you plug your headphones into.

Are you saying both outputs are live with only one input used?
 
Nov 6, 2018 at 5:05 AM Post #170 of 757
Bonjour, j'aimerais savoir si vous pouvez tester la connexion Xdsd à Xcan avec le câble court 2,5 à 2,5 et l'adaptateur. J'aimerais commander l'adaptateur et effectuer le même montage, merci.
I do not know french so I am using Google translate and as such I am not sure what I am exactly responding to but I will give a try:

I asked ifi directly about connecting xDSD and xCan with the cable - adaptor combination I have shown in my picture and I received this answer:

"So he is best using a 3.5mm TRRS to 3.5mm TRRS balanced cable into the xCan. The xCan allows other iFi S-Balanced technology to connect to its 3.5mm input."

Also the 2.5 mm is confirmed to be balanced, as expected, and I will use it with an other balanced source to see the results. But from xDSD I will use the 3.5 mm cable as also shown in my other photos above. I hope this helps a bit.
 
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Nov 6, 2018 at 6:00 AM Post #171 of 757
[QUOTE = "rafaelo, post: 14581704, membre: 471662"] Je ne sais pas le français, j'utilise Google Translate et, en tant que tel, je ne sais pas trop à quoi je réponds mais je vais essayer:

J'ai demandé directement si je voulais connecter xDSD et xCan à la combinaison câble - adaptateur que j'ai montrée sur ma photo et j'ai reçu cette réponse:

"Il a donc tout intérêt à utiliser un câble symétrique TRRS de 3,5 mm à 3,5 mm dans le xCan. Le xCan permet à une autre technologie iFi S-Balanced de se connecter à son entrée de 3,5 mm."

De plus, l'équilibre de 2,5 mm est confirmé, comme prévu, et je vais l'utiliser avec une autre source équilibrée pour voir les résultats. Mais à partir de xDSD, je vais utiliser le câble de 3,5 mm comme indiqué dans mes autres photos ci-dessus. J'espère que cela aide un peu. [/ QUOTE]
Merci beaucoup pour votre réponse, je vais faire des tests
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 4:40 PM Post #173 of 757
The 2.5mm shorty cable in the xCAN box is balanced, it is meant to connect xCAN to devices with balanced outputs on 2.5mm using the standard pinout.

When using xCAN always set the device output to maximum, as long as it is less than 6V RMS.

The 3.5mm shorty is unbalanced and is compatible with 3.5mm unbalanced outputs and 3.5mm S-Balanced outputs.

The 3.5mm is not compatible with 3.5mm TRRS Balanced line or headphone outs.

@iFi audio—is there any way the S-Balanced feature can be discussed on a deeper level? For instance, is this a proprietary circuit design that you envision will be adopted by other manufacturers? Your comment above, “... is compatible with 3.5mm unbalanced outputs and 3.5mm S-Balanced outputs” seems to suggest this because the only other source device that has S-Balanced is the xDSD.

Also, how are the left and right invert signals uniquely handled by the S-Balanced circuit ... or are they? I know there are tech notes on your site, but they really don’t go into how this circuit is supposed to provide balanced (perhaps it is quasi-balanced) signals from a singled ended input.

Finally, there is no mention on which version Bluetooth is employed. v5.0 is the new standard and all the new iPhones include v5.0 (I imagine new Android phones as well), but v5.0’s enhanced bandwidth and connectivity is not backwards compatible with v4.2 or earlier. Does the xCAN use v4.2?

I just received my review unit and I want to do a thorough write-up, so addressing the points above will enable me to do just that. :beerchug:
 
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Nov 7, 2018 at 5:52 PM Post #174 of 757
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And we'll be there!


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If you're there, please visit us!
 
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Nov 8, 2018 at 3:22 AM Post #176 of 757
is there any way the S-Balanced feature can be discussed on a deeper level?

https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/nDSD-BL-balanced-circuit-Tech-Note-Nov-xx-.pdf

Finally, there is no mention on which version Bluetooth is employed

The BT subsystem in iFi products is compatible with all current BT subsystems used in smartphones, computers TVs etc.

The Bluetooth version is generally immaterial for audio.

What is relevant is support the A2DP device profile and for the desired codecs (e.g. aptX for laptops, desktops and Android phones and AAC for iOS products).

For example, having a BT V5.0 device not supporting A2DP audio at all will provide a much worse audio experience than having a BT V2.1 device that supports A2DP with AAC and aptX.

So the key for AUDIO on BT is A2DP profile and supported codecs, the actual version of BT is immaterial as all BT above 2.1 offer bandwidth etc. that is sufficient fo A2DP.
 
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Nov 8, 2018 at 9:10 AM Post #177 of 757
This xCan does not stop to surprise me...it seems that is also able to scale amazingly well my other closed headphones that are supposed to be really sensitive and not needed like the Meze 99 Classics.

Not sure what is happening here, maybe because I never had an ican or something similar, but I am now so impressed. I still burn in this guy before I start the proper comparisons with xDSD but so far I did not expect such impressive big bold sound. With house music in bt mode with over ears cans I am really impressed.

3 nights in the row I am sleeping less than 3 hours because of xcan this maybe why I am still dreaming...
 
Nov 8, 2018 at 10:35 AM Post #178 of 757
https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/nDSD-BL-balanced-circuit-Tech-Note-Nov-xx-.pdf



The BT subsystem in iFi products is compatible with all current BT subsystems used in smartphones, computers TVs etc.

The Bluetooth version is generally immaterial for audio.

What is relevant is support the A2DP device profile and for the desired codecs (e.g. aptX for laptops, desktops and Android phones and AAC for iOS products).

For example, having a BT V5.0 device not supporting A2DP audio at all will provide a much worse audio experience than having a BT V2.1 device that supports A2DP with AAC and aptX.

So the key for AUDIO on BT is A2DP profile and supported codecs, the actual version of BT is immaterial as all BT above 2.1 offer bandwidth etc. that is sufficient fo A2DP.

@iFi audio—thank you for the link explaining your balanced circuit, this answers all of my questions. So, the focus is reducing crosstalk noise, and not providing 6dB gain as done in a traditional balanced circuit design with common-mode rejection.

Regarding Bluetooth, from my understanding, v5.0 improves connectivity significantly with three times the range of v4.2 and earlier. This means less drop outs, especially when one is highly active. With that said, I understand your point that the audio quality with the A2DP profile remains constant between the different versions. Still, every spec sheet I’ve seen on a Bluetooth device always lists the version, so I thought it odd that the xCAN’s did not.
 
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Nov 8, 2018 at 10:43 AM Post #179 of 757
This xCan does not stop to surprise me...it seems that is also able to scale amazingly well my other closed headphones that are supposed to be really sensitive and not needed like the Meze 99 Classics.

Not sure what is happening here, maybe because I never had an ican or something similar, but I am now so impressed. I still burn in this guy before I start the proper comparisons with xDSD but so far I did not expect such impressive big bold sound. With house music in bt mode with over ears cans I am really impressed.

3 nights in the row I am sleeping less than 3 hours because of xcan this maybe why I am still dreaming...

I did some listening last night with a few of my headphones, and I agree, there is something really good happening here ...
 
Nov 10, 2018 at 1:59 PM Post #180 of 757
So, the focus is reducing crosstalk noise, and not providing 6dB gain as done in a traditional balanced circuit design with common-mode rejection.

Common mode rejection is immaterial for driving headphones, it only matters for input.

Gain is an arbitrary number, even in SE mode the xCAN provides as much as 18dB gain to boost very low output sources.

The sole advantage of balanced wiring in headphones is crosstalk reduction while using balanced amplification results in worse noise levels (as much as 3x depending on precise design) with the same headphones and their drive circuit but also offers double the maximum output.

So balanced wiring is ALWAYS beneficial, while balanced amplification to drive headphones is only beneficial if large output into difficult to drive headphones is required, but is counterproductive if low noise into sensitive headphones is required.

Regarding Bluetooth, from my understanding, v5.0 improves connectivity significantly with three times the range of v4.2 and earlier.

Yes and no. For audio streams BT5.0 does not really offer material differences to 2.1 (neither do 3.0, 3.1, 4.2 et al).

Almost all BT5.0 improvements over 4.2 focus on low energy modes and IoT (Internet of Things / home automation etc.) and nothing has been done for audio. Similar situations existed for earlier versions.

To take advantage of the data-rate and range improvements, a new audio device profile (not A2DP) would be required.
 
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