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Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by jwahl, Jan 26, 2014.
Ah I see. Not such an obvious answer to that one then.
Bro, precisely. Katie88 has an Icon Audio Stereo 60 MkII. An integrated Amp.
That's right. It's integrated with a passive preamp section. If needed the sensitivity can be changed to make way for a separate pre-amp, the role of which I had been hoping the new Pro iDSD would fulfill. It looks as though I'll have to go for the less attractive iDSD micro plus itube 2 option.
Our aim is to deliver as of quality and functional products as possible. The core functionality comes in as first, yet to implement our own proprietary tech where it makes sense is our way to go. It can be seen as 'unnecessary duplication' or as yet another feature, usable if needed or the other way around if not.
If we'll go after a headphone integrated of the Pro family, this community will be the very first to know. For now it is what it is and what is, makes us really proud. Just wait and see
All good. We understand you, we really do. At times people don't agree with us, which is perfectly fine. Yet at the same time we're here to explain why we do what we do.
I know you may not want to hear this, but I also agree that it doesn't make sense to incorporate headphone amp functionality into the iDSD Pro. It's a DAC. Anyone with the kind of $$$ to buy the iDSD Pro is going to by an ICAN Pro if they want a headphone amp. There's no point in duplicating functions.
We do want to hear everything folks here have to say. Still, we've already quite extensively covered how we see additional functionalities in our products in posts #1773 and #1789 of this thread, feel free to take a look at these.
I actually disagree, IFI products are relatively affordable, and for me, whole point of getting them is for the compact design and feature rich functions that punches above it's class. It's what makes the iDSD Micro so great because its versatile while sounding excellent. Another member already said this, it's because iFi decided to call it a iDSD Pro vs. iDAC Pro, the expectation is it includes everything that made iDSD Micro great and build on it.
I agree with technobear. I've recently obtained pro iCAN and happily combined with micro iDAC2 so far. I may consider to upgrade if iFi makes "pro iDAC", not iDSD because of the above reason.
I think you are missing a big part of what the iFi line is about. By producing units that are more single purpose focused, the company can both keep price points down and release more updates than if it were offering full all-in-one solutions. This is particularly true of the Nano and Micro lines, where we can each piece together exactly what we want without spending money on things we don't need.
It is natural for us to want the box to do "more of everything" as the price point moves to the "pro" line, but there are a number of us who want the Pro iDSD as a DAC alone and don't want to spend extra for the fact that it also has "Pro" level headphone features, never mind features specific to electrostatics. If you were buying the iDSD Pro as an electrostatic headphone owner, exclusively for that use, I can certainly see why you'd like all that functionality in a single box, but that means the rest of us are paying extra for things we don't need.
That could well mean that at some point in the future there are both a Pro iDAC and a Pro iDSD that cover more of the functionality of the iDAC and iDSD Micro but at the Pro level. But, i think most of us just want a Pro level DAC on the market, regardless of whether it looks more like an iDAC or an iDSD.
As to target price, the real question is what do you have to offer to sound meaningfully better that what you already offer at the Micro line. My guess is that it turned out to be more difficult than iFI originally assumed to build a $1,000 price-point iPro product that very clearly beat the Micro iDSD/iDAC in sound quality. At $2,000, we obviously expect even more, so I'm eagerly awaiting what that prodct will sound like (particularly since the competitors have upped their own products since the iPro was first put on the drawing board).
I too have a pro iCan and wonder about the pro iDSD. I presumed/didn't really use my brain? the pro iDSD would've been a match for iCan. But it seems more a match/hybrid. It has the features of iDac (primarily a dac) with a headphone amp (which in this case seems a powerful one looking at the gain switch). A great looking all in one, like the mirco iDSD.
However, i feel if i pair it up with pro iCan, i have no need for high power headphone amp and i already have tubes. So, psychologically i feel that if i pay x, i want all of x to go on the dac. So this means i would prefer if there was a pro iDac, so my question: is there a pro iDac in the works? I don't really want to buy pro iDSD then find out there will be pro iDac. I'm thinking pro iDac will be better, similar how idac2 is better than micro idsd as a standalone dac.
Let's address this features/naming/etc. kerfuffle once more.
The iDSD Pro uses a cut down version (lower supply voltage, less Class A current and fewer output devices than iCAN Pro) of the circuitry first used in the iCAN Pro.
Its audio circuitry is mainly designed as line-driver in class A down to 600 ohm loads. However, many good line drivers can handle headphones very adequately, especially this one.
As we had requests to have headphone outputs available they were added given it just took a few parts.
The iCAN Pro has more output (Voltage / Current / Power), stays in Class A for much greater signal levels and/or impedances and offers much more flexibility in connection and headphone matching, including X-Bass & 3D-Matrix.
The iDSD Pro should be seen as a flagship DAC dedicated to offer the best possible (balanced) Line Out, that also allows you to plug in reasonably easy to drive headphones (like those of many of our competitors).
But neither it is a match for the iCAN Pro when it comes to headphone use nor is it a product primarily conceived to drive headphones.
In terms of positioning, despite the iDSD name, the iDSD Pro corresponds more to our micro iDAC2, hence a line level source meant to be paired with a dedicated headphone amp for serious headphone use.
Pro iDSD is deep down inside our iDAC2 of the Pro line. But neither we're going to rename it, nor will there be an "all in one" Pro series product that would be similar to the micro iDSD. The iDSD Pro will be the only DAC in the Pro lineup.
Given that I don't use headphones, I think the iDSD Pro is perfect for me. It seems to be a solid, versatile DAC to connect (balanced) to my Pass Labs INT-150.
I for one never intended on the iDSD Pro being an all-in-one solution. I've always thought of it being part of a system with the Pro iCan being the amp and the iDSD Pro being the DAC. I like that it includes a headphone jack but it shouldn't be as capable as the Pro iCan. Your approach with the iDSD Pro is spot on in my opinion and I can't wait to complete my Pro Series stack when it becomes available.
Thanks for your answer, can't wait for this thing to come out.