iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!
Jan 30, 2023 at 1:59 PM Post #2,626 of 2,981
That would be interesting thank you.

I was advised that on a power supply the battery was bypassed and my experience certainly indicates that is the case. If it shuts down on Eco mode on battery but can literally be run full volume on Turbo off a power supply the power supply must be doing something other than charging the battery.

The supplied ifI power supply was actually worse than on battery alone.
Just checked, power/shutoff behaviour is exactly the same regardless of whether it's running on battery or plugged in to a beefy PSU. Getting the same ~3ms full power time before it starts to distort massively
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 2:11 PM Post #2,627 of 2,981
Just checked, power/shutoff behaviour is exactly the same regardless of whether it's running on battery or plugged in to a beefy PSU. Getting the same ~3ms full power time before it starts to distort massively

Thank you Cameron, that is really intriguing.

Like I said my Diablo will shut down running off battery but not at all running off a suitable charger and there is a very obvious trend in terms of how hard the Diablo can be driven before it goes into hiccup protection versus the power output of the charger. The more powerful the charger the higher gain setting can be used and the higher volume pot setting can be reached before the protection cuts in. Any explanation for how that happens if the PSU isn't overriding the battery ? Any chance that only happens if the batter is fully charged then the PSU takes over ? I have only ever tested it from a fully charged battery.

Something just occurred to me, you said the shut down behavior is exactly the same. Do you literally mean on a PSU it shuts down or does it go into hiccup protection on a PSU and the "same behavior" you refer to is just the level at which that protection trigger happens ?

Mine shuts down completely on batter but hiccups on a PSU.
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 2:29 PM Post #2,628 of 2,981
Like I said my Diablo will shut down running off battery but not at all running off a suitable charger and there is a very obvious trend in terms of how hard the Diablo can be driven before it goes into hiccup protection versus the power output of the charger.
It will shut down regardless of whether it's on battery or plugged in. outputting 1.5W it will distort massively after about 35ms but doesn't seem to shut off. But anything above that figure it shuts off after around 100ms or less.

I'm not sure what you're meaning by the hiccup protection.

It's also worth noting though gain doesn't determine power. Gain is just a multiplier/how much the signal is amplified. It doesn't change what the maximum current a device can supply is (or what the maximum actual output voltage is) and the Diablo shows the same power limitations regardless of whether it's in normal or turbo. (It won't in Eco but only cause it maxes out at just over 4V / 0.5W @ 32Ohm on Eco anyway so you can't actually reach the shutoff point)
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 2:46 PM Post #2,629 of 2,981
It will shut down regardless of whether it's on battery or plugged in. outputting 1.5W it will distort massively after about 35ms but doesn't seem to shut off. But anything above that figure it shuts off after around 100ms or less.

I'm not sure what you're meaning by the hiccup protection.

It's also worth noting though gain doesn't determine power. Gain is just a multiplier/how much the signal is amplified. It doesn't change what the maximum current a device can supply is (or what the maximum actual output voltage is) and the Diablo shows the same power limitations regardless of whether it's in normal or turbo. (It won't in Eco but only cause it maxes out at just over 4V / 0.5W @ 32Ohm on Eco anyway so you can't actually reach the shutoff point)

Strange.

My Diablo will literally shut off completely dead, no lights no nothing, if pushed to the current limit protection on battery and needs to be connected to a charger to reset it.

Connected to a PSU (with the battery fully charged) and pushed to the current protection my Diablo will shut off for perhaps a second, perhaps a bit less but a discernable period of time with no playback, then will come back on, then shut off etc until the current demand is reduced, that is the volume is turned down. That is exactly how Thorsten explained it would work, "hiccup protection" was his term.

And as stated, it can be run much harder with a suitable PSU than on battery which suggests that the batter is no longer the limitation, perhaps the batter needs to be fully charged for that to happen. Maybe there was battery management change in a firmware update ?
 
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Jan 30, 2023 at 2:53 PM Post #2,630 of 2,981
Strange.

My Diablo will literally shut off completely dead, no lights no nothing, if pushed to the current limit protection on battery and needs to be connected to a charger to reset it.

Connected to a PSU (with the battery fully charged) and pushed to the current protection my Diablo will shut off for perhaps a second, perhaps a bit less but a discernable period of time with no playback, then will come back on, then shut off etc until the current demand is reduced, that is the volume is turned down. That is exactly how Thorsten explained it would work, "hiccup protection" was his term.

And as stated, it can be run much harder with a suitable PSU than on battery which suggests that the batter is no longer the limitation, perhaps the batter needs to be fully charged for that to happen. Maybe there was battery management change in a firmware update ?
This is probably just a case of level
When I was doing testing at the spec iFi provided, this will seemingly be way too much for the device (Seriously iFi change your specification to be accurate or make it clear your number has been obtained in a completely non-standard way), so it'll shut off entirely in either case.

At a lower level of 1.5W it clips massively but won't turn off either plugged in or on battery. I imagine somewhere in between there is where you'll encounter that 'hiccup' protection.

The issue is testing with headphones is quite difficult because the output level/current draw is going to vary a LOT. Power is logarithmic so a 3dB increase in volume is 2x the power. Not to mention if listening to music the output level at any given moment is going to vary immensely too.
Dummy loads are the way to test this stuff cause you can be completely consistent.

I uploaded a quick vid here too. Seems that at 1.5W the diablo can handle that for about 35 milliseconds.
Apologies for terrible video/audio quality. Just using camera internal mic and handling camera with heavy lens is tricky with one hand XD

 
Jan 30, 2023 at 3:49 PM Post #2,631 of 2,981
This is probably just a case of level
When I was doing testing at the spec iFi provided, this will seemingly be way too much for the device (Seriously iFi change your specification to be accurate or make it clear your number has been obtained in a completely non-standard way), so it'll shut off entirely in either case.

At a lower level of 1.5W it clips massively but won't turn off either plugged in or on battery. I imagine somewhere in between there is where you'll encounter that 'hiccup' protection.

The issue is testing with headphones is quite difficult because the output level/current draw is going to vary a LOT. Power is logarithmic so a 3dB increase in volume is 2x the power. Not to mention if listening to music the output level at any given moment is going to vary immensely too.
Dummy loads are the way to test this stuff cause you can be completely consistent.

I uploaded a quick vid here too. Seems that at 1.5W the diablo can handle that for about 35 milliseconds.
Apologies for terrible video/audio quality. Just using camera internal mic and handling camera with heavy lens is tricky with one hand XD



Very interesting again thank you.

I am still at a loss as to the very distinct behavior difference in real world use with a power supply versus battery and a high current demand situation. It is only apparent with the low impedance DCA Aeon, with HD600 it makes no difference at all.

One thing I did note was when you plugged the power supply in the charge light came on indicating the battery was charging. I wonder if there is a battery bypass "desktop mode" that is only kicks in once the battery is fully charged. That was sort of my take on what ifI said. Isn't that the way that particular Chord product works ?

Just to satisfy myself that I wasn't remembering incorrectly i just did another test. Diablo on Turbo mode with a 4.4mm IEMatch that presents the amplifier with a 16 ohm load running Dethonray Tender 1 planar IEM that are 28 ohm and 98 db/mw sensitivity so in themselves they need a fair bit of power.

- No power supply the Diablo would shut off at about 3 o'clock on the pot completely dead with audible distortion just before that shut down volume.
(Eco or Normal gain on battery it could be run full volume with no shut down and no audible distortion at all, sounded excellent)

- With a small 5 Watt iPhone charger it would hiccup on and off at about 1pm on the pot with audible distortion just before hiccuping level.

- With a Samsung 25 Watt charger it could be run full volume on Turbo with no shut down or hiccup but some audible distortion near maximum volume.

With the 5 Watt charger versus the 25 Watt charger the audible distortion certainly occurred a lot earlier.

That precisely mimics the behaviour with the DCA Aeon but with the attenuation the volume was such that I could actually listen to it without any problem.

Now I know that isn't near as scientific as your testing but it is a real world situation that I can reproduce and see the same thing that doesn't gel with the test data or your experience with the current limit shut down.

Would you be interested in charging the Diablo absolutely full so the charge light goes out and retesting with the PSU ? Sorry I don't want to impose on your time but I would be very interested to try and understand this apparent disparity.
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 3:50 PM Post #2,632 of 2,981
This is probably just a case of level
When I was doing testing at the spec iFi provided, this will seemingly be way too much for the device (Seriously iFi change your specification to be accurate or make it clear your number has been obtained in a completely non-standard way), so it'll shut off entirely in either case.

At a lower level of 1.5W it clips massively but won't turn off either plugged in or on battery. I imagine somewhere in between there is where you'll encounter that 'hiccup' protection.

The issue is testing with headphones is quite difficult because the output level/current draw is going to vary a LOT. Power is logarithmic so a 3dB increase in volume is 2x the power. Not to mention if listening to music the output level at any given moment is going to vary immensely too.
Dummy loads are the way to test this stuff cause you can be completely consistent.

I uploaded a quick vid here too. Seems that at 1.5W the diablo can handle that for about 35 milliseconds.
Apologies for terrible video/audio quality. Just using camera internal mic and handling camera with heavy lens is tricky with one hand XD



I believe those 50Watt phone chargers have stepped voltage, so on mine at 5 Volts it can only put out 3 Amps. The 50W can only be had when it steps up to 20V.
Thorsten said, even the original spec for the Zen-Can was supposed to be 5V with 5 Amps but instead iFi shipped it with 2.5A thus limiting current into low ohm planar headphones.

(Just a possibility, maybe try the hypsos with 4.7v as the voltage protector on the Diablo might be kicking in)
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 3:55 PM Post #2,633 of 2,981
I believe those 50Watt phone chargers have stepped voltage, so on mine at 5 Volts it can only put out 3 Amps. The 50W can only be had when it steps up to 20V.
Thorsten said, even the original spec for the Zen-Can was supposed to be 5V with 5 Amps but instead iFi shipped it with 2.5A thus limiting current into low ohm planar headphones.

(Just a possibility, maybe try the hypsos with 4.7v as the voltage protector on the Diablo might be kicking in)

That makes sense, my 25 Watt fast charger might actually have higher amps at 5 volts than a 50 watt charger does at 5 volts ??

As indicated above my Diablo certainly behaves differently on power versus a PSU and with a poor PSU can actually made to perform worse than on battery and with the right PSU it seems that it can be made to perform better than on battery.
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 3:59 PM Post #2,634 of 2,981
I believe those 50Watt phone chargers have stepped voltage, so on mine at 5 Volts it can only put out 3 Amps. The 50W can only be had when it steps up to 20V.
Thorsten said, even the original spec for the Zen-Can was supposed to be 5V with 5 Amps but instead iFi shipped it with 2.5A thus limiting current into low ohm planar headphones.

(Just a possibility, maybe try the hypsos with 4.7v as the voltage protector on the Diablo might be kicking in)
I mentioned in the vid but with the HYPSOS the diablo LED didn't come on, not sure why so I didn't use that.
I did give it a go but got same results regardless.

Also just tried with a deliberately underpowered PSU (0.5A @ 5V) and again exactly same results.
There does not seem to be any change whatsoever regardless of PSU used
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 4:07 PM Post #2,635 of 2,981
I mentioned in the vid but with the HYPSOS the diablo LED didn't come on, not sure why so I didn't use that.
I did give it a go but got same results regardless.

Also just tried with a deliberately underpowered PSU (0.5A @ 5V) and again exactly same results.
There does not seem to be any change whatsoever regardless of PSU used

Most odd, mine is quite obviously effected by the PSU into a low impedance load, I have tested it before and just again now with the same repeatable outcome.

I have been listening to mine for an hour and half connected to the 25 Watt Samsung charger running Dethonray planar IEM at 1 o'clock on Eco and pushing it to maximum on Turbo gain for the test with IEMatch and the Diablo is stone cold, like the battery is no longer being charged or discharged and thus not producing heat.

Thanks for playing around with this stuff regardless, it is appreciated even if it doesn't explain what I experience in actual use.
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 4:10 PM Post #2,636 of 2,981
Most odd, mine is quite obviously effected by the PSU into a low impedance load, I have tested it before and just again now with the same repeatable outcome.

I have been listening to mine for an hour and half connected to the 25 Watt Samsung charger running Dethonray planar IEM at 1 o'clock on Eco and pushing it to maximum on Turbo gain for the test with IEMatch and the Diablo is stone cold, like the battery is no longer being charged or discharged and thus not producing heat.

Thanks for playing around with this stuff regardless, it is appreciated even if it doesn't explain what I experience in actual use.
This diablo doesn't get hot either. It's not a thermal issue with the whole unit as such, but small, specific parts of the circuit.
As to the level, as said it really can't be tested reliably with headphones unless you're willing to play static signals at ear splitting levels.

In any case, as long as it's working for your use case that's fine. I'm sure that for 99% of people it will be (seriously people REALLY overestimate how much power they need). But the problem is that iFi's specs and marketing for the product is completely misleading
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 4:25 PM Post #2,637 of 2,981
I mentioned in the vid but with the HYPSOS the diablo LED didn't come on, not sure why so I didn't use that.
I did give it a go but got same results regardless.

Also just tried with a deliberately underpowered PSU (0.5A @ 5V) and again exactly same results.
There does not seem to be any change whatsoever regardless of PSU used
I thought maybe the voltage protector on the Diablo was faulty and if you dropped HYPSOS slightly to 4.7Volts it might work.
 
Jan 30, 2023 at 4:27 PM Post #2,638 of 2,981
This diablo doesn't get hot either. It's not a thermal issue with the whole unit as such, but small, specific parts of the circuit.
As to the level, as said it really can't be tested reliably with headphones unless you're willing to play static signals at ear splitting levels.

In any case, as long as it's working for your use case that's fine. I'm sure that for 99% of people it will be (seriously people REALLY overestimate how much power they need). But the problem is that iFi's specs and marketing for the product is completely misleading

I know it isn't important particularly but on the heat.

Driving low impedance planars mine will get quite warm on battery. On the 25 Watt Samsung it stays cool which I take to be the lack of battery charging or discharging once it is fully charged so there is no heat from the battery.

Another empirical indication that something changes with the PSU.
 
Feb 14, 2023 at 3:57 AM Post #2,639 of 2,981
Hello, good morning / good evening,

Pardon me if this has been asked before as I've post same question on the "iFi audio Squad group" on FB but received no answer!

The question is: Could I connect the Diablo to a Mac while listening to the Diablo paired with a DAP as a source, and would this setup in any way hurts the battery in Diablo like its life and performance, as I hope to recharge the Diablo saving me time to do the recharge later on.

TIA,
Best ..
 
Feb 14, 2023 at 10:47 AM Post #2,640 of 2,981
Hello, good morning / good evening,

Pardon me if this has been asked before as I've post same question on the "iFi audio Squad group" on FB but received no answer!

The question is: Could I connect the Diablo to a Mac while listening to the Diablo paired with a DAP as a source, and would this setup in any way hurts the battery in Diablo like its life and performance, as I hope to recharge the Diablo saving me time to do the recharge later on.

TIA,
Best ..

You mean using the Mac as a power supply to charge the Diablo only ?

Yes you can do that but there is differing information in respect of how far the battery is or isn’t protected if the Diablo is operated and connected to a power supply to keep the battery charged at the same time.

Also depending on the current requirements of the headphones the Mac may not provide sufficient power to properly run the Diablo. I know that if pushed hard with the Diablo connected to a low capacity power supply it will stop momentarily as the power supply cannot keep up.

Also using a computer as a power supply might introduce noise into the system. I have a 20,000mah power pack that makes a slight noise if used in this manner, I have never used a computer as the power supply. You might be better off using a dedicated charger instead.

The screen shot is a comment from an ifi representative some time back.
10716563-B6FD-4794-89CB-CC29148CFAF8.jpeg
 
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