[SilverEars]

why so expensive?

You know why expensive, it's in the sig. Haha. I love that quote.

''Why is so expensive? Because it sound good.'' - Fang Bian

 

[dr cornelius]

Thanks EtyDave and everyone for this great thread - it’s been really helpful getting first-hand info on the ER4 SR and XR.

I’m a long-time Etymotic user - as a drummer they were the perfect earphone - as an editor I now use them for mixing. I recently went through an SR/XR demo comparison and ended up with the SR. Based on published reviews I originally bought the XR - which I wasn’t expecting - In the past I always bought the less bass-centric model ( MDR 7506’s vs the V6 and Senn HD 600’s vs the 650’s...).

But after using them for about a week, I started reading through this long thread (it took me a while!). I’m glad I made the effort, because the more I read, the more I realized that I should try the SR's.

From the reviews I mentioned above, I was expecting the SR’s to be devoid of any bass, but IMO they have plenty of low end info. Also I found the added XR bass to be not as subtle as the reviewers heard it. I must say that unlike many headphones, there isn’t that 60 Hz bump I often hear, so the bass increase was done very well. But I still found it to be a little too congested In some modern, bass heavy mixes (acoustic and electronic), and also heard some added lo-end color on older recordings, The SR’s on the other hand didn’t add anything extra and kept the mids nice and clean - if there’s bass there, you’ll hear it, but never more than what’s there (from what I’ve heard so far).

Returning the XR’s for the SR’s sums up my current thoughts on adding extra bass energy to headphones. The thing I like about headphones is that they remove the room from the equation, I’m not so sure I want to add any of it back in, so I’m on the fence in regard to making headphones sound like speakers in a room. That doesn’t seem to be what Etymotic was setting out to do - I think they were just giving customers a choice, while still maintaining their target reference with the SR. I still really like the XR’s and almost kept them in addition to the SR’s, but I had to remind myself that I was looking for a portable reference to check mixes and the SR’s perform that task better for me. I did use the XR’s on a long plane ride, and they were perfect - I see the XR’s as a great all around earphone but not necessarily a reference for mixing/mastering...

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Happytalk]

I actually prefer the bass on the er4s over other etymotics, including the new models. I compared them to the er4p, hf5's, mc5, and very thoroughly against the er4xr, er4sr. I felt that two models have a more pleasant sound without losing any of the detail, the er4s just does it for me more in the bass. It sounds tighter and more accurate to me than the er4sr and especially the XR. I felt the bass in both the new models was just a hair too soft. I found myself missing the punch of the er4s bass. I know bass is not a common topic when referring to ety's but they sure do it well when powered correctly. I love the new ety's though and would have loved to have been able to keep all of them, but I chose the er4s, and would likely do so again.

 

[csglinux]

The thing I like about headphones is that they remove the room from the equation, I’m not so sure I want to add any of it back in, so I’m on the fence in regard to making headphones sound like speakers in a room.

That's an interesting comment. I think most recordings (past and current present) are made with two microphones, which were positioned (wide) in some kind of room.
My problem with the current state of affairs is these recordings are made for speakers, but then (most of the time) played back on headphones.
This is why I want to be able to buy my albums in binaural

 

[HiFiChris]

I actually prefer the bass on the er4s over other etymotics, including the new models. I compared them to the er4p, hf5's, mc5, and very thoroughly against the er4xr, er4sr. I felt that two models have a more pleasant sound without losing any of the detail, the er4s just does it for me more in the bass. It sounds tighter and more accurate to me than the er4sr and especially the XR. I felt the bass in both the new models was just a hair too soft. I found myself missing the punch of the er4s bass. I know bass is not a common topic when referring to ety's but they sure do it well when powered correctly. I love the new ety's though and would have loved to have been able to keep all of them, but I chose the er4s, and would likely do so again.

That's what I commented as well - the SR sounds a little softer in the bass than the S, despite measuring identically in the lows when it comes to frequency response. Then again the SR is, to my ears, a little superior when it comes to soundstage and imaging, and has got the better cable that has also finally got a chin-slider, which definitely compensated for the slightly softer bass response compared to the S.

 

[Happytalk]

The overall experience of the newer models is definitely better than the old. Regarding the soundstage increase on the newer models, I have a terribly simple theory that looser bass seems to give the illusion of more soundstage. I recently put a DAC back in my system that has tighter bass than my normal preamp (currently trying the DAC as the preamp) and noticed a similar thing. Tighter bass, but less soundstage. It can't be that simple, but that's what I noticed. I've felt this with headphones as well. I'm ok with less perceived soundstage if it brings me closer to what each musician is doing individually. I prefer to hear things that way, but I mainly listen to Jazz

 

[Dobrescu George]

I hear more soundstage when there is more upper treble extension, not with looser bass.

ER4-XR has one of the tightest bass I heard in my entire life tho, can't image how much tightrer the older versions could have been

 

[Happytalk]

Right. That makes sense. To my ears, something happens to the other frequencies when the bass changes in some way. I'm not that deep in it, though.

I felt that the xr was softer and not as accurate in the bass as a slightly boosted ER4S. Basically, I did my best to compare the same sound signature with some EQ. I also compared without. I listen to acoustic bass mostly and I'm a musician and hear acoustic bass next to me day after day. I found what I was looking
For in the er4s, more so than the XR. I liked the XR more for causal use with my phone and for watching concerts etc on my phone, but when I hunkered down to really do some listening and my only option was iems, I found myself going back to the er4s over the XR or the SR.

 

[luisdent]

ER4XR is the best earphone on the planet.

There... i said it.

But seriously, I believe it may well be for a few reasons. I agree with happytalk to some degree. I went back to my er4s (original blue and red model with green filters). They are still astonishing. In fact I still swear there is something "smoother" about them, where the SR and XR are a bit more "dry" sounding (not harsh, not distortion, not noise, simply a "drier" treble).

The difference is almost infinitesimal, but I believe it's there. The biggest problem for me, and this is a 100% absolutely consistent issue, is that the older er4 series earphones are very hard for me to get the correct sound each time I insert them. The frustrating thing is that it is not a matter of depth or seal. I can get the best of both every single time. The issue with my ears, and it surprises me that no one else ever seems to have this issue, is that inserting them creates a vacuum-like suction that scoops out part of the frequency spectrum.

The only way for me to fix this is to whet them a decent amount, insert them deeply (clean your thoughts now...) and then I need to bend them at sharp angles and more them around until the seal is actually broken, but they are still in my ears deeply. This allows the vacuum seal to leak out, but when I wiggle them a bit the seal is restored fully but not the vacuum. This may happen on its own (i think, but I don't feel completely confident) if I simply listen to music, but it seems to take a long time (10 minutes+).

So basically, I spend a lot of time and effort getting them to be a neutral fit with no positive or negative air pressure in my ears. On top of that, and this is also a repeatable fact, I get jaw discomfort and they even start to give me allergy like symptoms after too long. It's as though the tightness in the ears is pushing against my eustachian tubes and causing the symptoms.

I put up with it for years, and it isn't the end of the world, but that may be the single biggest reason I kept my PFE112. Ironically, I rarely listened to them, because the er4s was better and I never want anything less.

Anyway, as good as the er4s sounds, the er4sr is practically the same, but slightly different in the treble. While I might prefer the er4s (still not 100% sure, as I don't listen to it very often) the margin of difference is so small that everything else about the er4sr/xr outweighs the difference.

The new models do not have any fit issues ever. I can insert them every time and never get a vacuum, and yet they are fully sealed and block out all noise completely. It is as if the nozze shape is ever so slightly smaller or something. I don't know. I just know you could blindfold me and I could tell you every single time which is which by inserting them only. The new models, for me personally, are a HUGE breath of fresh air in that they fit better for me. So I will probably never go back to the er4s consistently, although I plan to keep it. Same goes for the er4b. Amazing, but the the fit is the same, as it is the same earphone.

Regarding the er4xr, my pair sounds practically identical to the er4s but with the bass being more warm and louder. At first I was a bit upset it went higher into the mids than I prefer. However, I tend to gravitate towards the xr lately. It just seems to do well with every song, even if the song is thin in the bass or bassy. Whereas there are many songs with the er4sr (same with the er4s) that the overall thinness and tone of a song would make it almost sound too nasaly and hard to listen to at anything but low volumes. These songs are few and far between, but it's the sort of thing where the xr sounds almost the same, but the bass alleviates this issue.

I also hear basses and bass like instruments in a more balanced mix like a real studio monitor speaker. However, the mid bass is still too much. I honestly believe, however hard it might be, that an er4xr v2 with less mid bass would be the holy grail of earphones. Etymotic has it SOOOOOOOOOOO darn close. The er4s is missing sub bass, but not much bass. The er4xr possibly has perfect sub bass and bass, but it creeps into the mid bass. They need to bring the bass curve to neutral by a lower frequency, perhaps 60-100hz or somewhere in there. It seems to creep well beyond that, luckily not at a lot of amplitude, but still, it does shift the overall tone to be a touch "dark" or "soft" and makes the treble seem ever so slightly less dynamic.

But despite all of that, they are both phenomenal. I think I would recommend the er4xr to everyone without question (obviously understanding not everyone will even like a neutral earphone), however, I would only recommend the er4sr to audiophiles or engineers who know a lot about what they're looking for and are much more critical and possibly will to use eq for sub bass response.

Both respond well to eq, but the er4xr can use subtractive eq which is very nice. The er4s requires you to cut the entire gain to boost the sub bass up. Just an observation. I'm thinking of making yet another er4 video review with a lot of super detailed info. Anything anyone would like me to talk about? I own every model (s/b/sr/xr)

 

[FastAndClean]

ER4XR is the best earphone on the planet.

bro you crazy, er4s is the king

 

[Wildblue]

Gotta show off the OFC cables ClieOS made for me with Rhodium plugs. One ER4P and one S cable. Great quality. Will do some critical listening to check them out when I get an opportunity.

 

[rasmushorn]

I heard the ER4XR today and wow they are good. Definitely on my wishlist for my next IEM.

 

[Headzone]

What iem would complement ER-4's

 

[episiarch]

What iem would you recommend to complement ER-4S?

It really depends on what sort of complementarity you have in mind, but as an ER-4S and ER4-SR lover I am also really loving my Periodic Audio Mg which has a very different presentation from the Etys', but a similarly deeply involving and layered experience.

 

[liquidrats]

Newly into audiophile, I first heard about this on Saturday. And I tried it a local store.. and blown away I got the xr version. I listen to a variety of genre, the only issues i have with it is with not so suitable with metal music also not so suitable during commute due that u need to be aware of your surroundings. That deep insert needs abit getting used. I hurts the first few times.