If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you...
Jul 18, 2016 at 4:36 PM Post #8,731 of 18,433

thefitz

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Just sent my ER-4S in, and can't wait to order the ER-4XR.
 
Jul 18, 2016 at 5:58 PM Post #8,732 of 18,433

Aero Dynamik

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  I've always been fascinated by the dichotomy of the accuracy/neutral description of the ER4S versus actually listening to how the lower bass is clearly lacking. All you have to do is listen to some hip hop on the ER4S to realize you barely hear the beat. While hip hop is not a genre I listen to much, that lack of bass makes it a no go for certain genres which I wouldn't expect from a truly neutral IEM. 
 
Kick drums are represented well, because you hear the 100Hz even if you lose the residual sound which is lower in frequency. So, I guess I've never been able to reconcile the arguments that if you can actually hear the lower frequencies, then it has added, excessive or inaccurate bass? And if that is in fact the case, then wouldn't added bass make it more accurate and help it to overcome IEM limitations mirroring what you would hear in real life? 
 
I've enjoyed the ER4S for years as well as the K-1000 which are both lacking in lower bass while excelling in bass quality. So, clearly, it's not an issue for me, but I'm just hoping someone can help me make sense of this. I'm really just curious. 

Very interesting post and I believe I can tell exactly where you're coming from, thanks!
 
As we all know, the answer is unfortunately no. My conviction is that IEMs will never be able to reproduce bass frequencies accurately no matter how flat the FR is. I'm not a sound scientist but my theory is that in real life bass (especially the lowest frequencies) is very much perceived by the inner ear from sound waves entering the body from other parts than the eardrums.
 
I've been experimenting with this by wearing high-attenuating earplugs combined with high-attenuating ear muffs.With this setup treble completely disappears and mid-range becomes unintelligible. However, truly low frequencies are still surprisingly audible, and I can't think of any other explanation than that truly low frequencies do not enter our hearing primarily through our eardrums.
 
I have no doubt that the ER4 is ear drum accurate though, and with a bit of training I'm sure it's a pretty ideal, or at least a helpful tool for mastering. However, from a listening to/enjoying music point of view, enjoying the bass is a bit of an acquired taste. The brain has an amazing ability to - after some time - spontaneously fill in the blanks. Anyway, I still believe a slightly elevated bass response is a good thing as it will help the brain to more quickly adapt to the "inaccuracy". Hence, I opted for the ER4XR and I have no second thoughts about it.
 
Well, JM2C...
 
Jul 18, 2016 at 6:01 PM Post #8,733 of 18,433

Aero Dynamik

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  Just sent my ER-4S in, and can't wait to order the ER-4XR.

Congrats! I believe you're going to be one very happy ER4XR owner! 
etysmile.gif

 
Jul 18, 2016 at 6:24 PM Post #8,735 of 18,433

luisdent

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The bass is excellent and all this talk is challenging, because not many people have heard the er4 with more perfected bass. Even by their graphing standards and most others it isn't perfect flat bass in the 60hz and lower region. And i think many people would be surprised at how good it sound with just that corrected. You can do this with eq, and the result is excellent.

Not to say that everyone would still be satisfied, but those who are accustomed to the difference in speakers to earphones might be surprised at how good it does represent bass. Having accurate sub bass makes the whole bass sound more believable.
 
Jul 18, 2016 at 6:59 PM Post #8,736 of 18,433

mkyy

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It sounds like it's an eartip issues.  The large clear eartips that come with the XR are the same as the old opaque white triple flanges, so they are indeed bigger than the frosted triple flange eartips.  If the white three flange tips worked for you in the past, I'd recommend using the clear 3-flange tips and not the frost.

 
Is the clear 3-flange tips the largest one offered at the moment?
 
Jul 18, 2016 at 7:03 PM Post #8,737 of 18,433

EtyDave

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Is the clear 3-flange tips the largest one offered at the moment?

 
For the 3-flange, the clear is indeed the largest we offer (and have ever offered).
 
We do have a massive sized foam eartip that isn't all that popular, but some folks need it.
 
Etymotic Stay updated on Etymotic at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.etymotic.com/
Jul 18, 2016 at 8:53 PM Post #8,738 of 18,433

mdiogofs

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Just sent my ER-4S in, and can't wait to order the ER-4XR.


Why? Thin sounding and no sub bass for you?

Edit: my mistake, read SR

Well I guess I'm trying both.

In fact, it makes sense. SR for studio monitoring and XR for a bit more fun signature. Most of us are not sound engineers, and like a bit fun in our listening session's.

There is also one thing. Live music has body. Bass frequencies contributes to it. SR hasn't much bass and like I said above, many of us will feel the sound too thin and no sub bass. Many of us who are here for "fun". Our type of fun, because many people are after the S sound.

Etymotic virgin here, I'm just here because:

- I frequent other forum and the top contributor is an Ety fan and told me " you still will understand what the ER4S represents"
- the @Aero Dynamik said these are better than Dunu DN-2000J for classical and orchestra and stuff like that.
- I guess I want to hear the real timbre of instruments and feel they are real like on a live performance. Maybe that's accuracy
 
Jul 18, 2016 at 11:03 PM Post #8,740 of 18,433

mark88888

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For the 3-flange, the clear is indeed the largest we offer (and have ever offered).
 
We do have a massive sized foam eartip that isn't all that popular, but some folks need it.

 
 
Ha, I got the massive one once.... the huge yellow one right?  OMG it was massive.  Couldnt use it at all.  :D
 
Jul 18, 2016 at 11:17 PM Post #8,741 of 18,433

B-Dawk20

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Hello everyone, my I've been searching for an IEM and in pursuit of a very neutral sound for my mobile setup on my LG V10. The headphone that kept popping up was the Ety ER4P-T but my concern was anemic bass. But with the new versions being released recently, I just think I may of found my headphones! I just can't decide between the SR and the XR versions :/. I am worried about bass but I'm not looking for a bass centric version so to say. I still want the flat response. I do know that the XR is in no way a big hump, but I just can't tell if I'll be satisfied with the SR and SR alone or if I need the XR. Of course I wish I could try them out but that isn't much of an option in my area. I just want something that isn't forgiving of the music and just as I've said in the past, "plays it as it is." I wanna enjoy the recording in all its faults and glory!
 
 
edit: Just a small update. I have done more research tonight and I'm just...really leaning in the direction of the SR. Unfortunately, it isn't available on Amazon at the moment so it made me think of the cheaper ER4S version that I see and if I want to go in that direction instead. Is there much of a difference between the S and the SR? In the pursuit of a completely neutral headphone, I think the SR sounds better and like Etymotic refined it more, but I am not sure if reaching higher up in the price bracket is worth it.
 
Jul 19, 2016 at 7:04 AM Post #8,743 of 18,433

HiFiChris

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quite curious UERM vs ER4SR


I don't have the SR but if you want to, you could check out my German review of the 4S in which I also compare my beloved Ety to my UERM (short story, I definitely say the 4S sounds more neutral in the bass, root, middle as well as upper treble (listening to sine sweeps, noise signals and of course music)).

IIrc, @luisdent came to the same conclusion with the SR vs. UERM.
 
Jul 19, 2016 at 7:18 AM Post #8,744 of 18,433

Aero Dynamik

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The bass is excellent and all this talk is challenging, because not many people have heard the er4 with more perfected bass. Even by their graphing standards and most others it isn't perfect flat bass in the 60hz and lower region. And i think many people would be surprised at how good it sound with just that corrected. You can do this with eq, and the result is excellent.

Not to say that everyone would still be satisfied, but those who are accustomed to the difference in speakers to earphones might be surprised at how good it does represent bass. Having accurate sub bass makes the whole bass sound more believable.

Indeed, with the "right" SPL the bass that I get from my ER4XR is amazing. As a matter of fact, after directly comparing it with the bass of my other favorite IEM, the DUNU-DN2000J, I definitely prefer it (at least today and at least with the tracks that I've been listening to today).
 
The "bass problem" has little to do with the ER4s themselves. It's a general problem with IEMs. They just can't deliver the kind of energy good speakers can (except for to the eardrums). However, as I've stated before, when IEM bass is well implemented (like in the ER4XR) the brain has an amazing ability to - after some time - spontaneously fill in the blanks.
 
Jul 19, 2016 at 7:51 AM Post #8,745 of 18,433

mdiogofs

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  Indeed, with the "right" SPL the bass that I get from my ER4XR is amazing. As a matter of fact, after directly comparing it with the bass of my other favorite IEM, the DUNU-DN2000J, I definitely prefer it (at least today and at least with the tracks that I've been listening to today).
 
The "bass problem" has little to do with the ER4s themselves. It's a general problem with IEMs. They just can't deliver the kind of energy good speakers can (except for to the eardrums). However, as I've stated before, when IEM bass is well implemented (like in the ER4XR) the brain has an amazing ability to - after some time - spontaneously fill in the blanks.

How is the bass quantity compared to the DN-2000J?
 

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