[robm321]

^ Thanks, your polished up review. It's been helpful.

I've no doubt the most excellent EtyDave would agree: no one that speaks multiple languages should apologize to Americans for their English grammar usage... most of us barely speak (let alone spell) one!

Agreed

 

[mdiogofs]

I got an SR. I guess that's the reason why I'm here, accuracy. For a more body and musical experience there are other brands with that especiality. XR bass quantity won't be enough for that. This is for me personally. Maybe I'm wrong and would also appreciate the XR with those non acoustical genres.

 

[Aero Dynamik]

For those of you having a hard time to choose between the ER4SR and the ER4XR, here is why I ultimately decided to go with the ER4XR.
 
I have a history with the ER4PT and the reason to why I (at the end of the day) sold it was that I felt it wasn’t accurate; that it was depressed in the very lowest frequencies (< 40 Hz or so). Of course, from a clinical point of view the bass frequencies of the ER4PT weren’t depressed but that’s how I heard it.
 
I should mention that I’m not a bass head. I usually strive for a somewhat neutral FR (frequency response), and the problem with most IEMs – in most other respects sounding great – are their much too lifted bass response. In this context I should take the opportunity to mention that I’ve applied james444’s "j444 mod" (front-mod) to some dynamic driver IEMs with absolutely great results.
 
Now, I haven’t heard the ER4SR but my understanding is that the ER4PT and the ER4SR have a very similar (although not identical) frequency response. For this reason I didn’t want the risk of ending up with another IEM that I would experience as non-accurate in the very lowest frequencies. Hence I opted for the ER4XR, and I’m really glad I did as I hear it as more accurate than any other IEM I’ve heard! (For a more "vivid experience" I go for my DUNU-DN2000J).
 
The only rational reason I can come to think of why I basically (pun intended) didn’t hear the really low frequencies in the ER4PT was that I used too low volume. If that’s the case I guess I should have experienced the same kind of problem with the treble, but I didn’t and maybe there is a scientific explanation for it that I’m not aware of!?
 
Hope this was of some help if you're in the process of getting the SR or the XR. Or as someone suggested (and you can afford it); get both and sell the one you don't want.

 

[mark88888]

Aero Dynamik,
 
I enjoyed your last post, it was very helpful.  
 
Do you still have the PT and have you compared it to the XR on the same music, one after the other?  If so I'd be interested in exactly what that comparison revealed to you.
 
 
EtyDave,
 
Thanks for all your posts here.
 
I have a question.  It's kinda sensitive so if you can't really answer I understand.  

 
I'm a person who usually hesitates to buy a product right after it is first offered, for two reasons.  1. the price often drops significantly after a few short months, or even weeks.  2.  there are often little issues with the product that become evident only after the launch.  Mechanical issues, or even something like the discovery that the right and left phones are hard to distinguish.  Modifications to the product are often made pretty quickly and so it makes sense to wait until the initial bugs are sorted out.
 
For these reasons I hesitate to get the new ER4 right away.  So I was wondering if you happen to know if there's a certain amount of time before the price might drop, or modifications might be made (easier to distinuish R/L cord for example).  In other words, if I knew that these things won't happen for at least a year (might the price actually never drop?  Is this meant to be a permanent price?) I might buy pretty soon.  But if a price drop or mods are in the works for 3 months from now it would make sense to wait.  

 

[seanwee]

  Aero Dynamik,
 
I enjoyed your last post, it was very helpful.  
 
Do you still have the PT and have you compared it to the XR on the same music, one after the other?  If so I'd be interested in exactly what that comparison revealed to you.
 
 
EtyDave,
 
Thanks for all your posts here.
 
I have a question.  It's kinda sensitive so if you can't really answer I understand.  

 
I'm a person who usually hesitates to buy a product right after it is first offered, for two reasons.  1. the price often drops significantly after a few short months, or even weeks.  2.  there are often little issues with the product that become evident only after the launch.  Mechanical issues, or even something like the discovery that the right and left phones are hard to distinguish.  Modifications to the product are often made pretty quickly and so it makes sense to wait until the initial bugs are sorted out.
 
For these reasons I hesitate to get the new ER4 right away.  So I was wondering if you happen to know if there's a certain amount of time before the price might drop, or modifications might be made (easier to distinuish R/L cord for example).  In other words, if I knew that these things won't happen for at least a year (might the price actually never drop?  Is this meant to be a permanent price?) I might buy pretty soon.  But if a price drop or mods are in the works for 3 months from now it would make sense to wait.  

Same here!!!

 

[Aero Dynamik]

  Aero Dynamik,
 
I enjoyed your last post, it was very helpful.  
 
Do you still have the PT and have you compared it to the XR on the same music, one after the other?  If so I'd be interested in exactly what that comparison revealed to you.
 
 
 

Spoiler: Warning: Seoilpr!

EtyDave,
 
Thanks for all your posts here.
 
I have a question.  It's kinda sensitive so if you can't really answer I understand.  

 
I'm a person who usually hesitates to buy a product right after it is first offered, for two reasons.  1. the price often drops significantly after a few short months, or even weeks.  2.  there are often little issues with the product that become evident only after the launch.  Mechanical issues, or even something like the discovery that the right and left phones are hard to distinguish.  Modifications to the product are often made pretty quickly and so it makes sense to wait until the initial bugs are sorted out.
 
For these reasons I hesitate to get the new ER4 right away.  So I was wondering if you happen to know if there's a certain amount of time before the price might drop, or modifications might be made (easier to distinuish R/L cord for example).  In other words, if I knew that these things won't happen for at least a year (might the price actually never drop?  Is this meant to be a permanent price?) I might buy pretty soon.  But if a price drop or mods are in the works for 3 months from now it would make sense to wait.  

 

Thanks mark88888! I'm afraid not. As I mention in my post I sold it as I felt that it was underperforming in the lowest frequencies. Many others have expressed such concerns/objections over the years about the previous ER4 versions, and if I'm not misinformed that's why Etymotic finally decided to something about it; hence the ER4XR. Do note that in no way do I experience the XR as bass heavy but in fact still very, very accurate. I find the implementation of the XR bass to be extremely well done and not one bit over the top, and it really goes to show what a precision judgement Etymotic posses.

 

[seanwee]

Dammit , so many varying opinions ..........

 and there are no places in Malaysia to demo it.........
 
Any places to demo in Singapore? I might be going there this year end.

 

[audio123]

 

as far as I know, there are no places to demo the er4 here

 

[AnyDave]

  For those of you having a hard time to choose between the ER4SR and the ER4XR, here is why I ultimately decided to go with the ER4XR.
 
I have a history with the ER4PT and the reason to why I (at the end of the day) sold it was that I felt it wasn’t accurate; that it was depressed in the very lowest frequencies (< 40 Hz or so). Of course, from a clinical point of view the bass frequencies of the ER4PT weren’t depressed but that’s how I heard it.
 
I should mention that I’m not a bass head. I usually strive for a somewhat neutral FR (frequency response), and the problem with most IEMs – in most other respects sounding great – are their much too lifted bass response. In this context I should take the opportunity to mention that I’ve applied james444’s "j444 mod" (front-mod) to some dynamic driver IEMs with absolutely great results.
 
Now, I haven’t heard the ER4SR but my understanding is that the ER4PT and the ER4SR have a very similar (although not identical) frequency response. For this reason I didn’t want the risk of ending up with another IEM that I would experience as non-accurate in the very lowest frequencies. Hence I opted for the ER4XR, and I’m really glad I did as I hear it as more accurate than any other IEM I’ve heard! (For a more "vivid experience" I go for my DUNU-DN2000J).
 
The only rational reason I can come to think of why I basically (pun intended) didn’t hear the really low frequencies in the ER4PT was that I used too low volume. If that’s the case I guess I should have experienced the same kind of problem with the treble, but I didn’t and maybe there is a scientific explanation for it that I’m not aware of!?
 
Hope this was of some help if you're in the process of getting the SR or the XR. Or as someone suggested (and you can afford it); get both and sell the one you don't want.

 
The ER4SR is actually closer in response to the ER4S.  Just FYI.
 
Based on your description, I suspect the XR is the better choice for you and I'm thrilled that you're happy with it.  It is indeed still a very accurate sounding earphone.  The bass lift is not massive as we weren't going for a thumper, but it seems to be popular with those who want an accurate earphone but just a little bit more low end than the ER4SR.
 
As far as volume goes, that can certainly affect your perception of low end.  Check out the Fletcher-Munson loudness curves.

 

[mdiogofs]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Seoilpr!

 

Thanks mark88888! I'm afraid not. As I mention in my post I sold it as I felt that it was underperforming in the lowest frequencies. Many others have expressed such concerns/objectios over the years about the previous ER4 versions, and if I'm not misinformed that's why Etymotic finally decided to something about it; hence the ER4XR. Do note that in no way do I experience the XR as bass heavy but in fact still very, very accurate. I find the implementation of the XR bass to be extremely well done and not one bit over the top, and it really goes to show what a precision judgement Etymotic posses.

I want this IEM for classical, orchestra, instrumental and stuff like these. These kind of music don't have drums (most of them). So why do I need the extra bass? I prefer to get a little more transparence, resolvingness and better timbre just hearing the frequencies this kind of music produces.
 
Why do I need the extra bass for music with no "artificial" bass? Am I thinking wrongly here? 

 

[AnyDave]

  Aero Dynamik,
 
I enjoyed your last post, it was very helpful.  
 
Do you still have the PT and have you compared it to the XR on the same music, one after the other?  If so I'd be interested in exactly what that comparison revealed to you.
 
 
EtyDave,
 
Thanks for all your posts here.
 
I have a question.  It's kinda sensitive so if you can't really answer I understand.  

 
I'm a person who usually hesitates to buy a product right after it is first offered, for two reasons.  1. the price often drops significantly after a few short months, or even weeks.  2.  there are often little issues with the product that become evident only after the launch.  Mechanical issues, or even something like the discovery that the right and left phones are hard to distinguish.  Modifications to the product are often made pretty quickly and so it makes sense to wait until the initial bugs are sorted out.
 
For these reasons I hesitate to get the new ER4 right away.  So I was wondering if you happen to know if there's a certain amount of time before the price might drop, or modifications might be made (easier to distinuish R/L cord for example).  In other words, if I knew that these things won't happen for at least a year (might the price actually never drop?  Is this meant to be a permanent price?) I might buy pretty soon.  But if a price drop or mods are in the works for 3 months from now it would make sense to wait.  

 
There is certainly risk associated with being an early adopter.
 
Sometimes things change that surprise me, but I'd be very surprised if the price changed any time in the near future.  The previous model kept did start out at $330 (back in 1992, I believe) and did eventually settle at $299, where it stayed for years, if I am not mistaken.
 
The cord change will likely happen at some point, but I'm going to resist the urge to put a definitive timeline on it as it does require some design time and a tooling modification (plus I haven't decided what the final changes are yet).

 

[AnyDave]

  I want this IEM for classical, orchestra, instrumental and stuff like these. These kind of music don't have drums (most of them). So why do I need the extra bass? I prefer to get a little more transparence, resolvingness and better timbre just hearing the frequencies this kind of music produces.
 
Why do I need the extra bass for music with no "artificial" bass? Am I thinking wrongly here? 

It doesn't need to be artificial, but it does need to have content there for the difference to be audible.  On some classical pieces with a lot of Tympani, you may be able to hear the difference.
 
But we offer two models for a reason.  There are many in this thread that prefer a totally flat frequency response and they generally seem to lean towards the SR.

 

[luisdent]

 
I want this IEM for classical, orchestra, instrumental and stuff like these. These kind of music don't have drums (most of them). So why do I need the extra bass? I prefer to get a little more transparence, resolvingness and better timbre just hearing the frequencies this kind of music produces.

Why do I need the extra bass for music with no "artificial" bass? Am I thinking wrongly here? 

It doesn't need to be artificial, but it does need to have content there for the difference to be audible.  On some classical pieces with a lot of Tympani, you may be able to hear the difference.

But we offer two models for a reason.  There are many in this thread that prefer a totally flat frequency response and they generally seem to lean towards the SR.

I prefer the er4sr even for electronic. I love stuff like BT and think the sr sounds better than the xr personally.

The xr is primarily the one i use when I'm out an about. Despite the amazing isolation, bass is overshadowed by ambient noise, and the xr helps this just enough in loud ambient environments. But to be completely honest, as incredible as it is (and i may just be talking out my butt here) I'll probably just keep the sr ultimately. Every time i listen to the xr lately there is just enough mid bass that masks that truly see-through treble transparency that i always want to listen to the sr again. So for me, the xr almost doesn't really add much.

The low bass is great, but I'm too picky about everything above 80hz. It's not as much masking though as it is treble energy. The bass lift causes the whole upper spectrum to be a few db lower in amplitude than the bass. So the treble energy just always seems slightly soft compared to the sr. I can turn it up but that doesn't help, because the bass goes up relative to the treble as well. So it's hard to resist turning it up more and more.

Again, the difference is slight relatively speaking. However, i get the impression I'm listening to reality more with the sr that the xr by a small degree. If i keep the xr I'd probably want to eq down the mid bass. I might eq up the sub bass on the sr, but I don't feel like it really neeeeeds it.

I'll conclude by saying this. If I had to choose between the sr and xr I would always choose the sr without question. The xr is just an excellent alternative.

 

[Aero Dynamik]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spioler!

Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
  For those of you having a hard time to choose between the ER4SR and the ER4XR, here is why I ultimately decided to go with the ER4XR.
 
I have a history with the ER4PT and the reason to why I (at the end of the day) sold it was that I felt it wasn’t accurate; that it was depressed in the very lowest frequencies (< 40 Hz or so). Of course, from a clinical point of view the bass frequencies of the ER4PT weren’t depressed but that’s how I heard it.
 
I should mention that I’m not a bass head. I usually strive for a somewhat neutral FR (frequency response), and the problem with most IEMs – in most other respects sounding great – are their much too lifted bass response. In this context I should take the opportunity to mention that I’ve applied james444’s "j444 mod" (front-mod) to some dynamic driver IEMs with absolutely great results.
 
Now, I haven’t heard the ER4SR but my understanding is that the ER4PT and the ER4SR have a very similar (although not identical) frequency response. For this reason I didn’t want the risk of ending up with another IEM that I would experience as non-accurate in the very lowest frequencies. Hence I opted for the ER4XR, and I’m really glad I did as I hear it as more accurate than any other IEM I’ve heard! (For a more "vivid experience" I go for my DUNU-DN2000J).
 
The only rational reason I can come to think of why I basically (pun intended) didn’t hear the really low frequencies in the ER4PT was that I used too low volume. If that’s the case I guess I should have experienced the same kind of problem with the treble, but I didn’t and maybe there is a scientific explanation for it that I’m not aware of!?
 
Hope this was of some help if you're in the process of getting the SR or the XR. Or as someone suggested (and you can afford it); get both and sell the one you don't want.

 

 
The ER4SR is actually closer in response to the ER4S.  Just FYI.
 
Based on your description, I suspect the XR is the better choice for you and I'm thrilled that you're happy with it.  It is indeed still a very accurate sounding earphone.  The bass lift is not massive as we weren't going for a thumper, but it seems to be popular with those who want an accurate earphone but just a little bit more low end than the ER4SR.
 
As far as volume goes, that can certainly affect your perception of low end.  Check out the Fletcher-Munson loudness curves.

Very interesting!
 
I was of course aware of the phenomenon but not aware that it had been scientifically mapped. So in short, SPL has a fundamental effect on how we perceive FR. That would explain why I intuitively prefer different volumes with different IEMs. It could definitely also help to explain why different people experience the same IEM with the same recording differently. For example, when the DN-2000J came out quite a few knowledgeable Head-Fi:ers - to my surprise - would describe its treble as piercing and/or harsh whereas as I found nothing wrong with it (quite to the contrary!).
 
So in this light, depending on the SPL the XR bass could definitely come out as the more accurate of the two.
 
Well, good thing we finally - after having waited for decades - have the option to choose! Etymōtic Research for President! 

 
 
Thanks!

 

[Dougr33]

  Aero Dynamik,
 
I enjoyed your last post, it was very helpful.  
 
Do you still have the PT and have you compared it to the XR on the same music, one after the other?  If so I'd be interested in exactly what that comparison revealed to you.
 
 
EtyDave,
 
Thanks for all your posts here.
 
I have a question.  It's kinda sensitive so if you can't really answer I understand.  

 
I'm a person who usually hesitates to buy a product right after it is first offered, for two reasons.  1. the price often drops significantly after a few short months, or even weeks.  2.  there are often little issues with the product that become evident only after the launch.  Mechanical issues, or even something like the discovery that the right and left phones are hard to distinguish.  Modifications to the product are often made pretty quickly and so it makes sense to wait until the initial bugs are sorted out.
 
For these reasons I hesitate to get the new ER4 right away.  So I was wondering if you happen to know if there's a certain amount of time before the price might drop, or modifications might be made (easier to distinuish R/L cord for example).  In other words, if I knew that these things won't happen for at least a year (might the price actually never drop?  Is this meant to be a permanent price?) I might buy pretty soon.  But if a price drop or mods are in the works for 3 months from now it would make sense to wait.  

I imagine once the initial buying binge is over and they can stock at Amazon, you'll see varying discounts.