[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif If there is misinformation, it would be useful and helpful to point out what that alleged misinformation is, preferably with supporting references. As for carbon issues, no manufactured items of any type are "carbon neutral". This is not a unique issue to hybrid vehicles.

One obvious example is the statement regarding battery life. The life of the battery pack is dictated by many things, but "mileage" itself is not a definite indicator. The number of cycles that the battery was subjected to and the temperature of the battery have far more to do with the life of the battery pack. A NIMH pack would be doing well to last 8 years in typical automotive conditions. They're good for 500 cycles.

My point about carbon neutrality, in case you missed it was that a hybrid car is less carbon neutral than many gasoline powered vehicles. Therefore, some of those conventionally powered vehicles are better for the planet overall than the hybrids.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxATOLxX /img/forum/go_quote.gif I still doubt that it retains as much electricity as it once did earlier. The sad part is that these days Americans think 30mpg is good. The small, light cars of the 80's/90's regularly got 40+ mpg. What manufacturers need to do is build a light, safe, car with a small engine and none of those hybrid-electric drivetrains that will jack the costs up.

Ugh, no, Americans don't think 30mpg is good, at least the smart ones. Course, you do have the vocal morons who whine and bitch if they don't have a 400hp sedan with an interior appointed like the bloody damned Ritz that gets 100mpg on the interstate and massages your balls for you.

I'd personally love to see a LARGE cut-back on engine power ratings (seriously, a family sedan DOES NOT NEED 300HP WHEN IT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THE DAMNED GAS MILEAGE!), and making cars lighter (although that's getting harder with even more stringent crash test standards.

We'll never have the tiny Renaults and Opels the Europeans do, but I think more reasonably sized, appointed, and powered-down vehicles would do the American driving public a lot of good.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ugh, no, Americans don't think 30mpg is good, at least the smart ones. Course, you do have the vocal morons who whine and bitch if they don't have a 400hp sedan with an interior appointed like the bloody damned Ritz that gets 100mpg on the interstate and massages your balls for you. I'd personally love to see a LARGE cut-back on engine power ratings (seriously, a family sedan DOES NOT NEED 300HP WHEN IT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THE DAMNED GAS MILEAGE!), and making cars lighter (although that's getting harder with even more stringent crash test standards. We'll never have the tiny Renaults and Opels the Europeans do, but I think more reasonably sized, appointed, and powered-down vehicles would do the American driving public a lot of good.

We do have Smart cars. They happen to be fairly lousy cars, but they're a lot smaller than most European autos.

 

[krmathis]

If I were to buy a car right now I would get a Think Ox.
Infinite miles per gallon, since its fully battery operated.

 

[Hayduke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I were to buy a car right now I would get a Think Ox. Infinite miles per gallon, since its fully battery operated.

Can you even buy that?

I bought a new car (my first yay!) last year. I chose a Camry Hybrid. I absolutely love this car! I get ~38MPG (in Winter it can drop as low as 33MPG due to the heater, it snows here), it's super quiet (most people comment on that when they ride in it), it's very comfortable, and the JBL sound system that came in it (I have the upgraded electronics package just under GPS) sound pretty good.

I researched electric vehicles for a few months before buying the car, but you just can't get one right now. There are N.E.V.'s (neighborhood electric vehicles) available, but they can only legally operate on roads with speed limits BELOW 40 MPH. Unfortunately, there is no path from my home to work, that doesn't use a road with a speed limit of 40

So gas mileage played a big part in my decision to buy that particular car. I did drive a Prius first, but it felt "tinny". They are very well made cars, but because it is built to be lightweight, it felt "cheap". They aren't, and I'm not trying to say they are, but the difference between the Prius and the Camry is significant.

Originally we were looking for a used Subaru, but then we slowly started considering a new one. Walking through the car lot I noticed all the windows stickers with mileages in the 20s and thought, "why am I going to buy a brand new car with ****ty mileage when I can go get a Prius?" The next day we went to the Toyota dealer, and they made us a pretty good deal on the Camry. I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone looking for a car.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif We do have Smart cars. They happen to be fairly lousy cars, but they're a lot smaller than most European autos.

Yeah, but I get the feeling a golf cart with a windshield would be safer.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you even buy that? I bought a new car (my first yay!) last year. I chose a Camry Hybrid. I absolutely love this car! I get ~38MPG (in Winter it can drop as low as 33MPG due to the heater, it snows here), it's super quiet (most people comment on that when they ride in it), it's very comfortable, and the JBL sound system that came in it (I have the upgraded electronics package just under GPS) sound pretty good. I researched electric vehicles for a few months before buying the car, but you just can't get one right now. There are N.E.V.'s (neighborhood electric vehicles) available, but they can only legally operate on roads with speed limits BELOW 40 MPH. Unfortunately, there is no path from my home to work, that doesn't use a road with a speed limit of 40 So gas mileage played a big part in my decision to buy that particular car. I did drive a Prius first, but it felt "tinny". They are very well made cars, but because it is built to be lightweight, it felt "cheap". They aren't, and I'm not trying to say they are, but the difference between the Prius and the Camry is significant. Originally we were looking for a used Subaru, but then we slowly started considering a new one. Walking through the car lot I noticed all the windows stickers with mileages in the 20s and thought, "why am I going to buy a brand new car with ****ty mileage when I can go get a Prius?" The next day we went to the Toyota dealer, and they made us a pretty good deal on the Camry. I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone looking for a car.

The Hybrid Camry is a nice car! How much of a premium did you have to pay over the same thing in a non hybrid version?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonicLemming /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, but I get the feeling a golf cart with a windshield would be safer.

You're probably right. Actually, they advertise that their safety frame is pretty safe, but I wouldn't want to be the crash test dummy for that one!

http://www.smartusa.com/is-the-smart...-car-safe.aspx

Those things are so little that hitting a jackrabbit at highway speeds might be enough to total the car.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you even buy that?

Sadly not yet, as its a concept car.
The Think City are available though, but not quite as cool looking.

 

[Hayduke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Hybrid Camry is a nice car! How much of a premium did you have to pay over the same thing in a non hybrid version?

First, the hybrid is the fastest Camry, so it's hard to make a comparison with a regular gas version. The hybrid, in 2007 (my model), was about $3000 more. A little less then that, but most of $3k.

I fill it up once a month normally (6 miles to work). I suspect it has almost paid for itself with $4 gas

Edit: I forgot the coolest part! It has a 17.9 gallon gas tank, so at ~38mpg I can over 600 miles on a tank! That's why I can go a month on a tank. I don't know any gas cars with that kind of range.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke /img/forum/go_quote.gif First, the hybrid is the fastest Camry, so it's hard to make a comparison with a regular gas version. The hybrid, in 2007 (my model), was about $3000 more. A little less then that, but most of $3k. I fill it up once a month normally (6 miles to work). I suspect it has almost paid for itself with $4 gas Edit: I forgot the coolest part! It has a 17.9 gallon gas tank, so at ~38mpg I can over 600 miles on a tank! That's why I can go a month on a tank. I don't know any gas cars with that kind of range.

While the Camry Hybrid is reasonably quick for a hybrid, it's got a bit to go to equal the V6 Camry. Which, by the way, is a good thing. The current V6 Camry really is the poster child for the overpowered family sedans subgroup that DemonicLemming was ranting about.

 

[Hayduke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif While the Camry Hybrid is reasonably quick for a hybrid, it's got a bit to go to equal the V6 Camry. Which, by the way, is a good thing. The current V6 Camry really is the poster child for the overpowered family sedans subgroup that DemonicLemming was ranting about.

What are you basing this on?

My experience (I've driven them) tells me the hybrid is quicker, and I recall reading the same in a magazine article somewhere(Motor Trend maybe?). The writer said the hybrid was the quickest of the Camry test cars they had.

And I completely agree that the family sedan doesn't need 250hp
While the hybrid is quick, I rarely "punch it".

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayduke /img/forum/go_quote.gif What are you basing this on? My experience (I've driven them) tells me the hybrid is quicker, and I recall reading the same in a magazine article somewhere(Motor Trend maybe?). The writer said the hybrid was the quickest of the Camry test cars they had.

Personal experience and magazine acceleration numbers. Personal evaluation showed that the Hybrid feels peppier off the line due to the responsiveness that only an electric motor can provide, but after you get into the 2-3K RPM range, the V6 easily overpowers the Hybrid. Magazine numbers give the V6 a large advantage in acceleration too, where it carries a 2 second edge in both 0-60 acceleration and the quarter.

 

[scompton]

How often do you really need to accelerate from 0-60 as fast as you can. I don't think I've ever done it in 30 years of driving. The only times I've come close is a on ramps onto a highway where either the merge lane is too short or some idiot stops. Even then, I don't think I've ever floored it from 0-60.

Edit: I take that back. Thinking some more, I remember one car my family had when I was a teenager, a mid 70s Chevette. It was so underpowered that I had to floor it on the best of on ramps. It was kind of scary to merge into highway traffic with that car.

Other than the Chevette, I've never had to floor it. Even with my underpowered 60s Beetle or 90s Civic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're probably right. Actually, they advertise that their safety frame is pretty safe, but I wouldn't want to be the crash test dummy for that one!

I saw a YouTube video of someone remotely crashing one into a Jersey Barrier at 70 mph. Amazingly, the doors still worked. Of course the car was totaled and anyone in it would have died. Probably would have with any car with a 70 mph head on with a wall.

My worry with tiny cars is that you head is a decapitation level with an 18 wheeler's bumper. I remember driving tiny cars in the 70s and looking in my rear view mirror and only seeing the bumper of a truck tailgating me.

 

[DemonicLemming]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif How often do you really need to accelerate from 0-60 as fast as you can. I don't think I've ever done it in 30 years of driving. The only times I've come close is a on ramps onto a highway where either the merge lane is too short or some idiot stops. Even then, I don't think I've ever floored it from 0-60. Edit: I take that back. Thinking some more, I remember one car my family had when I was a teenager, a mid 70s Chevette. It was so underpowered that I had to floor it on the best of on ramps. It was kind of scary to merge into highway traffic with that car. Other than the Chevette, I've never had to floor it. Even with my underpowered 60s Beetle or 90s Civic.

I do, multiple times a day. I normally don't stop at 60mph, though.