[Achlys]

I suspect people would disagree about the ER2 being the GOAT.

Find me a headphone under ten-thousand dollars that measures better than Etymotic ER2SE in BOTH Frequency Response (stock) and Distortion.

What do I mean by better? I want ruler flat bass to 20 Hz, ear canal gain around 2.7 kHz, THD < 0.1% full spectrum at 104 dB, ZERO peaks in the treble, and preferably 99% compliance to diffuse field compensated for small-room X-Curve.

There is no IEM that comes close to ER2SE frequency response besides ER4S/SR, both of which have considerably higher distortion.

 

[phaetos42]

If you mean the ear canal size and the IEM bore size, if the manufacturer does not state the latter you can just look at the eartips. Even without exact measurements just looking at what the different eartip sizes look like relative to the bore size (as it fits over the tube on the IEM shell) will tell you if it's huge.

Very generally though Shure and Westone have 2mm bore sizes, IIRC Etymotic isn't that much larger. Your problem are most other brands especially the ChiFi brands as they go for less restrictive 3mm to 4mm bore sizes.

The problem then is if you have a bigger bore you also end up with less padding between the bore and your ears, so if you get one that fits and stays in, chances are you can feel the IEM shell's bore through the eartips as they compress. I have this huge problem with KZ along with "small absolutely loose, medium has one ear painful (ie feeling the bore), large does not fit." I put a third party triple flange on them so I can have a cheap IEM as a beater.




What exactly does not fit at all? The bore+tips in your ear canal or the whole shell in your ear conch?

Because even if the IEM shell doesn't fit snugly in your ear conch as long as you can get a good enough grip an seal the worst thing you'll deal with it sticking out a bit, but it shouldn't fall out. For example my KZ ZSN sticks out vs my Westone2 (not busted) and my Aurisonics ASG-1.3, but the triple flange tips keep them on there as securely as the Westone triple flanges do the W2 and Aurisonics tips/Sony Hybrids do the ASG-1.3.

You could try other tips if that's one angle you want to explore otherwise if you just want a tiny shell, SoundMagic used to have a single BA driver IEM that was really tiny. Even smaller than Westones. Barring that, try a Westone. Just make sure you keep a record of where you bought it and make sure that whoever you buy it from is an authorized dealer, not to mention the company name on the receipt needs to be the same as on Westone's list, otherwise return it. I couldn't get a warranty replacement for mine just because I can't even straighten this out with either of them.

Or if you want one that really fits in your ear conch then there's only one option: CIEMs. unfortunately they'll cost a lot more than $75.




Unfortunately if you're after tiny shell IEMs it won't be any of the cheap ones since these use dynamic driver IEMs and produce bass for most people without the complexity of using using three BA drivers to get to the same bass level that would appeal to many buyers.

BLON BL-03 seems to be the closest thing at that price range which has a tiny shell for a DD IEM but note that it's not as widely good fitting as Shure and Westone.

Maybe the Sennheiser IE40? Was browsing through Amazon and saw it going for $75 right now.

Also Etymotic ER2SE.




Make sure you do have a decent DAC though because that speaker isn't going to be a simple pass through. Its output impedance, power, THD+N, etc will be what will matter, not the motherboard's, and I wouldn't really trust those outputs on speakers.

I'll try to explain the fitment. The part of the earbuds where the tip goes on that goes down into the ear canal, is usually fine depending on what size tip i've got on there. the part of the earbud where the driver/electronics/shell is that sits in the ear opening, is always the part that doesn't fit. they always just kinda slide around and wiggle free from there, no matter what type of tip I'm using that is supposed to give me a better seating.

Find me a headphone under ten-thousand dollars that measures better than Etymotic ER2SE in BOTH Frequency Response (stock) and Distortion.

What do I mean by better? I want ruler flat bass to 20 Hz, ear canal gain around 2.7 kHz, THD < 0.1% full spectrum at 104 dB, ZERO peaks in the treble, and preferably 99% compliance to diffuse field compensated for small-room X-Curve.

There is no IEM that comes close to ER2SE frequency response besides ER4S/SR, both of which have considerably higher distortion.

Wow, that sounds like a lot of aural electronic buzzwords thrown together with some numbers attached to them

 

[earmonger]

Not buzzwords because they all have precise scientific meanings. One eternal audio question is how (and sometimes if) measurements correlate with listening enjoyment. Welcome to Head-Fi.

 

[phaetos42]

Not buzzwords because they all have precise scientific meanings. One eternal audio question is how (and sometimes if) measurements correlate with listening enjoyment. Welcome to Head-Fi.

Yes, I realize they do have very specific meanings and know they are measurements of aural frequency and response. I was just making an allegory to how a lot of articles just spit out a bunch of buzzwords to make things sound better or more important, as a joke reference. I know that you can measure the frequency reproduction of sound to be exactly as it was originally recorded, but that doesn't mean it's enjoyable to listen to.

 

[buke9]

I suspect people would disagree about the ER2 being the GOAT.

OK I’ll be the one definitely not a GOAT IMO. I bought them for work as I work construction and wanted the isolation which they do excel at and mostly use them for podcasts and some music and music is where I think they don’t do well for me. The lack of bass is the most evident and I think that leads to very hard sharp mids for me the high end is fine and yes they are on the brighter side they aren’t sibilant at all to me.
While I got them for the isolation and all the love they seem to get I was expecting something a bit better but actually thought they would sound the way they do . The isolation can’t be beat but GOAT I’m sure that was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

 

[phaetos42]

Are there any other good options other than these ER2** ? They look like they would be uncomfortable ...

 

[Achlys]

Are there any other good options other than these ER2** ? They look like they would be uncomfortable ...

foam tips

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I'll try to explain the fitment. The part of the earbuds where the tip goes on that goes down into the ear canal, is usually fine depending on what size tip i've got on there. the part of the earbud where the driver/electronics/shell is that sits in the ear opening, is always the part that doesn't fit. they always just kinda slide around and wiggle free from there, no matter what type of tip I'm using that is supposed to give me a better seating.

So the bore and tip fit, but the shell doesn't rest on the conch. The thing is even if the conch and shell don't fit as well, if the eartip actually has a good enough grip without being painful (too large tips that are forced in even if they fit will not only hurt but also slip out; some tips can be a hair too small, and thus slide out) it wouldn't necessarily have a problem staying in there. Best example: the UE TripleFi had the weirdest shape ever and it wasn't the size that makes them stick out, but they stayed in there fine. Don't have pics of that though since that was a long time ago but I have others.

Here's a Westone2 in my ear. That tiny shell really sticks in there well...if I have the triple flange tip on, otherwise the left ear feels OK with the medium tips until I move (large is too big).

Here is an Aurisoncs ASG-1.3. Slightly larger shell that mimics CIEMs, as in they shaped the inner side based on IIRC an average of 90% of the custom earphone molds they had on file, and sticks in really deep and stays put better than the Westone2, although that's not necessarily more from resting on the conch than that the Sony Hybrid and Aurisonics tips just fitting me better than the Westone tips in my left ear (it's a bit looser on the left).

Now here's the KZ ZSN, a shell design similar in style with the ASG-1.3 but without that kind of database to dictate the shape, with the stock ZSN large tip sticking out badly. Medium is too loose in my left ear. Large stays in...until I move, as in your case. But...

...here's the ZSN with some third party triple flange tips I got off Alibaba. Still sticks out a fair bit, ie I don't really feel the shell against my conch, but it stays in there well enough. I have to move in such a way as to tug on the wire for it to slide back out of my ear canal.

In your specific case though have you:

1. Tried many other tips other than the ones that the IEMs came with? Because in the case of the ASG-1.3 I just used the Sony Hybrids because they were easier to get at the time and I just stuck with them, even after my ASG-1.3 was replaced by Aurisonics and they sent me some extra tips from the 1.5 (they held on better, but too well...harder to pull out). But with the ZSN all the other tips it came with were horrible with my ears (large too large for my right, can't stay on in left either; medium too small for left), so I tried these triple flange tips and they work fine (though still sticking out, can't feel the back of the shell on my conch as I do with the Aurisonics). Same problem with my ZST before that, but I got some NewBee foam tips (used the large) because the treble on that is just outright bad, like, "not even regular EQ can fix this" bad.

2. Did you tighten the adjustment on the cable behind your head? All my earphone cables have this...even the KZ cables, if DIY. They didn't come with the slider, so what I did was fit it tight as I would wear it then twisted the zip tie that came with the cable where they would rest against the base of my skull. A bit trickier to put in, but I'd much rather deal with that than not anchor it properly.

On top of more extensive tip rolling and tightening up the cable, or what to pay attention to first and then rely on these second, maybe get an IEM with the smallest possible shell. Like whatever might be like the Westone shells. Or maybe just spend more and get the Westone W20? Just note that it's a dual BA driver design and might not necessarily be the best in sound for everybody (I might like the W2, but it basically sounds like the old HE400 but with smoother treble, and some people want more bass than just flat bass). Alternately, there's the Etymotic ER2, although I've tried Etys before during a local headphone audio meet and when I ran up and down the stairs to simulate rushing into a metro station, they started falling out (was using the triple flange), unlike the Shure SCL2 I had at the time.

Other than these, your only option is probably to just spend even more and get CIEMs as these will be custom molded to your ears' conch and canal. I mean, if it stays on when somebody bangs on the drums like this or dances choreography like this (which had at least one complaining about how it gave her a six pack while at least two others lost enough weight then and through to the next song) then I can't imagine how they wouldn't stay on during anything with a lot less and less intense movement.

 

[phaetos42]

So the bore and tip fit, but the shell doesn't rest on the conch. The thing is even if the conch and shell don't fit as well, if the eartip actually has a good enough grip without being painful (too large tips that are forced in even if they fit will not only hurt but also slip out; some tips can be a hair too small, and thus slide out) it wouldn't necessarily have a problem staying in there. Best example: the UE TripleFi had the weirdest shape ever and it wasn't the size that makes them stick out, but they stayed in there fine. Don't have pics of that though since that was a long time ago but I have others.

Here's a Westone2 in my ear. That tiny shell really sticks in there well...if I have the triple flange tip on, otherwise the left ear feels OK with the medium tips until I move (large is too big).

Here is an Aurisoncs ASG-1.3. Slightly larger shell that mimics CIEMs, as in they shaped the inner side based on IIRC an average of 90% of the custom earphone molds they had on file, and sticks in really deep and stays put better than the Westone2, although that's not necessarily more from resting on the conch than that the Sony Hybrid and Aurisonics tips just fitting me better than the Westone tips in my left ear (it's a bit looser on the left).

Now here's the KZ ZSN, a shell design similar in style with the ASG-1.3 but without that kind of database to dictate the shape, with the stock ZSN large tip sticking out badly. Medium is too loose in my left ear. Large stays in...until I move, as in your case. But...

...here's the ZSN with some third party triple flange tips I got off Alibaba. Still sticks out a fair bit, ie I don't really feel the shell against my conch, but it stays in there well enough. I have to move in such a way as to tug on the wire for it to slide back out of my ear canal.

In your specific case though have you:

1. Tried many other tips other than the ones that the IEMs came with? Because in the case of the ASG-1.3 I just used the Sony Hybrids because they were easier to get at the time and I just stuck with them, even after my ASG-1.3 was replaced by Aurisonics and they sent me some extra tips from the 1.5 (they held on better, but too well...harder to pull out). But with the ZSN all the other tips it came with were horrible with my ears (large too large for my right, can't stay on in left either; medium too small for left), so I tried these triple flange tips and they work fine (though still sticking out, can't feel the back of the shell on my conch as I do with the Aurisonics). Same problem with my ZST before that, but I got some NewBee foam tips (used the large) because the treble on that is just outright bad, like, "not even regular EQ can fix this" bad.

2. Did you tighten the adjustment on the cable behind your head? All my earphone cables have this...even the KZ cables, if DIY. They didn't come with the slider, so what I did was fit it tight as I would wear it then twisted the zip tie that came with the cable where they would rest against the base of my skull. A bit trickier to put in, but I'd much rather deal with that than not anchor it properly.

On top of more extensive tip rolling and tightening up the cable, or what to pay attention to first and then rely on these second, maybe get an IEM with the smallest possible shell. Like whatever might be like the Westone shells. Or maybe just spend more and get the Westone W20? Just note that it's a dual BA driver design and might not necessarily be the best in sound for everybody (I might like the W2, but it basically sounds like the old HE400 but with smoother treble, and some people want more bass than just flat bass). Alternately, there's the Etymotic ER2, although I've tried Etys before during a local headphone audio meet and when I ran up and down the stairs to simulate rushing into a metro station, they started falling out (was using the triple flange), unlike the Shure SCL2 I had at the time.

Other than these, your only option is probably to just spend even more and get CIEMs as these will be custom molded to your ears' conch and canal. I mean, if it stays on when somebody bangs on the drums like this or dances choreography like this (which had at least one complaining about how it gave her a six pack while at least two others lost enough weight then and through to the next song) then I can't imagine how they wouldn't stay on during anything with a lot less and less intense movement.

Thanks for helping, unfortunately, your pics didn't post for some reason.

In response to the bullet points, keep in mind I'm currently wearing Soundcore Liberty Air 2's

1) These TWS earbuds come with silicone tips, which I guess my ear canal is more oily than normal or something as the silicone ones just slide in and out way too easy, even going up and down in size, they just won't stay. I have tried some tips I had from some JLabs earbuds, and while better and not silicone, still don't hold well. I found my tips from an old Bose earbud set I had lying around that are the triple flange design. They seem to hold better than the other options I have on hand, they still aren't that good, and when I move a bit too much, or chew, or talk or anything that moves the jaw up near the ear, they just wiggle free and start sliding out. I'm still constantly reaching up to adjust the fit.

2) As these are TWS earbuds, there's no cable to tighten.

Maybe I'll try a set of the Comply tips and see how those fit and if they help any for my current earbuds. Though I still want something to use at my PC.

 

[silent-circuit]

There's no need to sugarcoat it...
Etymotic ER2 is the best IEM at ANY PRICE.

... I'm sorry but this is hilarious. I have a laundry list of IEMs I prefer over literally anything from Etymotic (and I still own an ER4SR and ER4XR, because yes, they do some things very well). Calling the ER2 the GOAT is nonsense.

 

[phaetos42]

... I'm sorry but this is hilarious. I have a laundry list of IEMs I prefer over literally anything from Etymotic (and I still own an ER4SR and ER4XR, because yes, they do some things very well). Calling the ER2 the GOAT is nonsense.

What options would you recommend for me then in the $75 and down range, based on the previous conversation we've been having?

 

[silent-circuit]

What options would you recommend for me then in the $75 and down range, based on the previous conversation we've been having?

I agree there's not much better in that price range, I was just saying there are far better options at higher price points.

The Moondrop Aria at $80 would be my only other recommendation apart from the Etymotics in that range. Used Moondrop Starfields should also be in budget.

I have been unimpressed with the less expensive IEMs I've tried, but there's so much out there I'm sure there are many hidden gems.

 

[Achlys]

I agree there's not much better in that price range, I was just saying there are far better options at higher price points.

The Moondrop Aria at $80 would be my only other recommendation apart from the Etymotics in that range. Used Moondrop Starfields should also be in budget.

I have been unimpressed with the less expensive IEMs I've tried, but there's so much out there I'm sure there are many hidden gems.

Please name me an IEM at any price that is better than Etymotic ER2SE. I have been looking at getting something more expensive, but haven't found anything as good.

 

[silent-circuit]

Please name me an IEM at any price that is better than Etymotic ER2SE. I have been looking at getting something more expensive, but haven't found anything as good.

To my ear, everything before the Etymotics in my "My Gear" IEM list.

"Empire Ears Bravado MK2, AAW x The Custom Art Project 4+2, Tanchjim Oxygen, The Custom Art FIBAE 4, Audiosense AQ7"

To be fair, the least expensive option there is about $250, and the most expensive are $800, so by no means a level playing field.

I'd say they trade blows with the Moondrop Starfields, so their original ~$100 price is fair.

Again, not saying they're 'bad' - I agree the ER2SEs (and other single driver Etymotics - I have no experience with the Evo) are accurate, but (again, to my ear) it is fairly bass shy and not nearly as detailed as higher end multi-BA / hybrid EST IEMs.

 

[earmonger]

What options would you recommend for me then in the $75 and down range, based on the previous conversation we've been having?

It seems the fit problem you are having is that the part that sits against the concha, your outer ear, doesn't work with your ear shape. The Etymotics don't touch your outer ear at all, and with their foam tips (included) they should grip your ear canal better than silicone. I have zero problems with the foam tips.

If you want a teeny tiny IEM that doesn't touch the concha at all and just sits inside your ear canal, with surprisingly good sound -- but V-shaped, emphasizing bass and treble -- you could lay out about $10 for a Sony MH750.

Yeah, that's super cheap.

The cord is thin and not detachable, and it is Japanese style -- short on left, long on right. But getting the MH750 costs less than shipping back the Etys if you don't like them.

Because the MH755 (same earphone, shorter cord) was hyped here and elsewhere, there are a lot of counterfeits around. Take a look in the MH750 thread.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/son...ion-thread-mh750-mh755-mh1c-ex300-etc.900005/

But people on Head-Fi have very recently vouched for this Ebay seller. https://www.ebay.com/itm/304069747002

I got good ones from Spassear but the price got jacked up. https://www.ebay.com/itm/352537526219