IE8 foam seals - anyone having trouble with stock, try this
Oct 8, 2009 at 12:56 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

D Man

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I got some IE8s. They showed promise, but no good seal. I want a good seal for isolation. I know what half of you will say about them and not expecting isolation, and I dont care. I know how to use an EQ
tongue.gif


Anywho, what I did what this:

Got some foam earplugs. The kind used in industry, and readily available in bulk for very cheap (think shure foam inserts but about twice as long).

Pick out some sennheisser inserts that youre NEVER going to use.

Cut the core out of them. You want to keep it as cylindrical as possible.

Cut one of the earplugs in half.

Compress them HARD lengthways into a disk. They will not totally recover from this, and thats actually a good thing.

Use a hole punch of suitable diameter or carefully use a pair of scissors while the half-plugs are compressed/maintaining their compression and cut a hole in the centre to fit the core of the senn insert. (Obviously make it a tiny bit too small for some friction)

Put the cores in the plugs.

Wait for the plugs to expand. This will take a lot longer than usual because you compressed them so hard to be able to cut them accurately. If you got the same (pretty much ubiquitous) plugs I did the half-plugs will relax to almost the same length/thickness/whatever as the cores (a little more, which is what you want, obviously).

When done, use a pin to put tiny amounts of superglue (coat the pin and stick it in there and move it about a bit) in the interface between the core and the plug.

Trim the edges of the plug that will be going in your ears, so they dont flare out in your ears and attenuate high end.

You can repeat the compress & cut process with a new set of plugs if the first are too wide, and make another set, or cut strips off the edge of another set and glue them to the first to widen them out.

I've done this and got much better seal, great isolation (shure foamies level) and the sound is fuller, and deeper, but not boomier. I didnt find them veiled at all to begin with, and this process has only served to sweeten the top end somewhat, but not diminish or muddy it at all

The plugs, as they dont go in your canal, take the shape of your ear quickly and I dont find they need compression every time you put them in - you just put them in (this, I suspect, is subject to how good a fit they are for you, but as outlined that can be adjusted).

P.S. This is off a cowon iaudio7, settings:
EQ: 80Hz up two notches, 220 down 2 notches, all others unadjusted.
Band widths and centre pitches unaltered (well done for thinking them out well to begin with, cowon people).
BBE: 2
Mach bass: 2
MP enhance on

IE8 Bass dial on zero. I found it added a lot of low mid bloat with the actual low end. I believe the low mids, not the bass, is what is responsible for many people believing these phones to be "veiled". Subtly and intelligently EQ'd they are not.

Another reason would be the proliferation of ipods round here. Top end IEMs and an mp3 player with some of the worst DACs out there? Really? But anyway, I may or may not piss into that wind another time
icon10.gif


Anyway, I hope someone out there found this usefull. Its very possible to get the IE8s to isolate well, play to their strengths of powerfull low end and warm, unfatigueing sound AND have them be accurate and clear. And you dont have to throw money at it to do it
tongue.gif
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 2:01 PM Post #2 of 14

pdupiano

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Quote:

Originally Posted by D Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Another reason would be the proliferation of ipods round here. Top end IEMs and an mp3 player with some of the worst DACs out there? Really? But anyway, I may or may not piss into that wind another time
icon10.gif





Get a hold of yourself there buddy. Ipod 5th gen (most common round these parts) have the same dac as the cowon D2, furthermore both are greater than your iaudio7's dac. Dont go spoutin off about crap you don't know.

Additionally the "mod" you've mentioned have been done numerous times and have been posted quite a bit in the past for pretty much EVERY IEM and to this day I'm am AMAZED at how the mod seems to fix ALL the problems with EVERY IEM out there in the market. And you know what manufacturers should really just go and buy out CVS/Walgreen's stock of old foam earbuds and convert them for iem use... oh wait that's what comply did! ZOMG!
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 2:15 PM Post #3 of 14

D Man

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How did I know that the ipod comment would be the part that people would comment on? Precious ipods. No one say anything bad! Admittedly, I havent heard the newer ipods, but, the cowon DACs arent that good either
wink.gif
(I wasnt touting my gear: I was telling you what I used and how I used it so you have a reference point). Have they improved their headphone amps too?

To the rest; well, excuse me. I didnt realise that to offer any assistance from experience on the off chance anyone would benefit from it was such folly because of the off chance that someone else already has already done so, and I meant no offence and hope my independently ariving at the same solution hasnt affronted you too severely. My bad. I apoligise.
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM Post #4 of 14

D Man

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Actually, **** the sarcasm; first big post/thread start on here, I can see how some parts of it can be read as a bit cheeky, but was clearly intended as helpfull and thats the first reply. Wanker. Shouldnt have bothered. Obviously you agree, for entirely different reasons.
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 2:23 PM Post #5 of 14

pdupiano

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Quote:

Originally Posted by D Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
How did I know that the ipod comment would be the part that people would comment on? Precious ipods. No one say anything bad! Admittedly, I havent heard the newer ipods, but, the cowon DACs arent that good either
wink.gif
. Have they improved their headphone amps too?



Trust me people crap on every ipod dac except the 5th gen. The new classics, nano and touches get a lot of flac because they can't take Flac (well the touches can) and their dac's aren't as good as the wolfson one. The 5th gen was the *probably* last wolfson dac to ever receive a wolfson dac. So you're really way off base here. As for the amp comment -thats why they have line out docks(most head-fiers tend to use a headphone amp + LODs). Once again way off base

Quote:

To the rest; well, excuse me. I didnt realise that to offer any assistance from experience on the off chance anyone would benefit from it was such folly because of the off chance that someone else already has already done so, and I meant no offence and hope my independently ariving at the same solution hasnt affronted you too severely. My bad. I apoligise.


Its called search. Use it, clears up quite a bit of the clutter
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 3:46 PM Post #6 of 14

D Man

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So, I'm not way off base at all, and in fact I simply didnt know about the revisions in the latest one (which would be because whenever I'd heard them before, with stock buds, with my (then) atrios, and lined out into my fireface, they always sounded horrible, so I stopped paying attention to them (save, of course, when reminded of their common usage as per browsing here).

Search, huh? There was a thread on the first page that was discussing IE8 isolation, EQ, seal attainability, and so forth. I dimly remember someone pretty unhelpfully saying 'comply', or whatever it is, once, and the same sorts of discussions came up in my searches (which included here via google) while doing research for replacement in ears. Again, I read about the possible problems with isolation,that some people didnt consider it a problem at all, chanced it, found that I had that I had poor seals with all inserts and much fiddling, and considered it a problem, and thats what I did about it.

I never once read anything about IE8s, including in searches (incuding focussed ones on this forum, and generally on the web), that resembled even a suggestion to make your own foam inserts, let alone a guideline on how to do so effectively. So, either a couple of hours of reading posts on this board about the IE8s isnt enough, the search isnt comprehensive enough, or maybe, just maybe, this is sufficiently uncommon suggestion (to make your own for practically nothing) to warrant a thread and youre overreacting (being that youre reacting rudely to no rudeness, and unhelpfully to something intended to be helpfull).

Or another way to look at it would be, what was more potentially helpfull to other members, lurkers, n00bs and the like - the OP or you whining about the redundancy (as you see it, in your experience) of the OP?

Very odd, this. Never have I encountered such rudeness as to have to justify a threads existance on a discussion forum before. Justify whats said in it, of course, but not the whole thing, simply because its come up before. Again, I do apologise for not spending enough of my life on here, or spending more hours using the search function.

Final (and only significant) edit - and all your comments in mind, why'd you even click on the thread then? Saw the title and thought "I know, I'll be smug at this guy for posting something I already know about!".

Lets just leave it alone and if anyone got anything from it then yippee, ok?
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 4:35 PM Post #8 of 14

pdupiano

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Quote:

Originally Posted by D Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So, I'm not way off base at all, and in fact I simply didnt know about the revisions in the latest one (which would be because whenever I'd heard them before, with stock buds, with my (then) atrios, and lined out into my fireface, they always sounded horrible, so I stopped paying attention to them (save, of course, when reminded of their common usage as per browsing here).

Search, huh? There was a thread on the first page that was discussing IE8 isolation, EQ, seal attainability, and so forth. I dimly remember someone pretty unhelpfully saying 'comply', or whatever it is, once, and the same sorts of discussions came up in my searches (which included here via google) while doing research for replacement in ears. Again, I read about the possible problems with isolation,that some people didnt consider it a problem at all, chanced it, found that I had that I had poor seals with all inserts and much fiddling, and considered it a problem, and thats what I did about it.

I never once read anything about IE8s, including in searches (incuding focussed ones on this forum, and generally on the web), that resembled even a suggestion to make your own foam inserts, let alone a guideline on how to do so effectively. So, either a couple of hours of reading posts on this board about the IE8s isnt enough, the search isnt comprehensive enough, or maybe, just maybe, this is sufficiently uncommon suggestion (to make your own for practically nothing) to warrant a thread and youre overreacting (being that youre reacting rudely to no rudeness, and unhelpfully to something intended to be helpfull).

Or another way to look at it would be, what was more potentially helpfull to other members, lurkers, n00bs and the like - the OP or you whining about the redundancy (as you see it, in your experience) of the OP?

Very odd, this. Never have I encountered such rudeness as to have to justify a threads existance on a discussion forum before. Justify whats said in it, of course, but not the whole thing, simply because its come up before. Again, I do apologise for not spending enough of my life on here, or spending more hours using the search function.

Final (and only significant) edit - and all your comments in mind, why'd you even click on the thread then? Saw the title and thought "I know, I'll be smug at this guy for posting something I already know about!".

Lets just leave it alone and if anyone got anything from it then yippee, ok?



You know for a lurker, your a pretty bad lurker if you havent seen the same foam mods for the se530s, the westones(pretty much all of them) the UE TFT Pros, oddly none for the atrios.

And your title suggest something new and a mod that can fix a problem, obviously its not something new and its a mod that doesnt fix a problem because its out there and people still have issues with the ie8's (an issue which led to its relative decline, but to be fair the UM3x and the JH13 might have a bit to do with its decline in popularity).

You think you're the victim here? REALLY?
Wow, just wow. Someone who says:

"Top end IEMs and an mp3 player with some of the worst DACs out there? Really? But anyway, I may or may not piss into that wind another time "

That is a clear attack on the head-fi Community
You expected this kind of attack, plain and simple, and to make matters worse you post something that you claim is so profound and amazing that it fixes the ie8's when its a mod that people have claimed to do wildly different things for different headphones in the past.

As for the question of being helpful you do realize that you are asking people to
1. Sacrifice one of their tips
2. Buy some foam tips
3. waste their time on a mod that somehow magically fixes all the problems with a pair of iems without affect anything else? there are tradeoffs to any and all mods, its pretty misleading if you don't comment on the downsides and trust me I've done this mod in the past even when I had the ie8's and it muddies up the bass. The mids don't come out much better and the seal is actually less comfortable than the seal from a pair of comply tips. You actually end up getting better results from EQing the iem than doing the mod. Look up N_Maher's posts regarding a similar post with the Shure Black olives that one does a bit better job with the veil while sacrificing some of the bass impact (you don't get as good a seal as with the comply or silicone tips)

Do your search, read the forums, and if you are as you call yourself a lurker, lurk theres a lot of info available here. search for it.
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 5:23 PM Post #9 of 14

D Man

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You know for a lurker, your a pretty bad lurker if you havent seen the same foam mods for the se530s, the westones(pretty much all of them) the UE TFT Pros, oddly none for the atrios.

And your title suggest something new and a mod that can fix a problem, obviously its not something new and its a mod that doesnt fix a problem because its out there and people still have issues with the ie8's (an issue which led to its relative decline, but to be fair the UM3x and the JH13 might have a bit to do with its decline in popularity).

You think you're the victim here? REALLY?
Wow, just wow. Someone who says:

"Top end IEMs and an mp3 player with some of the worst DACs out there? Really? But anyway, I may or may not piss into that wind another time "

That is a clear attack on the head-fi Community
You expected this kind of attack, plain and simple, and to make matters worse you post something that you claim is so profound and amazing that it fixes the ie8's when its a mod that people have claimed to do wildly different things for different headphones in the past.

As for the question of being helpful you do realize that you are asking people to
1. Sacrifice one of their tips
2. Buy some foam tips
3. waste their time on a mod that somehow magically fixes all the problems with a pair of iems without affect anything else? there are tradeoffs to any and all mods, its pretty misleading if you don't comment on the downsides and trust me I've done this mod in the past even when I had the ie8's and it muddies up the bass. The mids don't come out much better and the seal is actually less comfortable than the seal from a pair of comply tips. You actually end up getting better results from EQing the iem than doing the mod. Look up N_Maher's posts regarding a similar post with the Shure Black olives that one does a bit better job with the veil while sacrificing some of the bass impact (you don't get as good a seal as with the comply or silicone tips)

Do your search, read the forums, and if you are as you call yourself a lurker, lurk theres a lot of info available here. search for it.



Youre focussing on one throwaway sentence. Good job. And all headfi members use ipods too. I didnt realise that. Well spotted.

And I said I searched, not lurked. I've looked in here half a dozen times, max, a few minutes a time save reading about IE8s the other night because this forum came up in google searches. Well done.

As to your experience with it - all are different, are they not? Now youre suggesting I'm lying. Why would I? If it was a dismal failure, as you suggest, or had significant (even noticable) downsides (as I percieve them at least), what do I have to gain by not saying them? Am I trying to sell this? Would I not, had the mod been a poor one, have anticipated that someone would try it, since thats the point of suggesting it, for people to try and find the same? Youre not making any sense, and are simply being combatative. I found it to be a very effective change. I'm making a tidier looking pair (rather than the test one whos effects I described) right now. Would I do that if it were a terrible idea? Excelent logic.

Plus,

One, sacrifice tips - I said ones they're never going to use. All of your tips for all headphones have utility to you, or do you frame and display them for guests?

Two, not buy new tips, buy earplugs. This sort of thing Earfit Foam Ear Plugs 2 Pairs: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Leisure thats about 4 dollars. I can see how someone would struggle to pay their bills after that, I mean, we're in an economic downturn and I suggest paying 4 dollars for something? How incredibly impractical, and its a risky investment. So much to lose.

Three, in your experience, with whatever you assembled, whatever you made it from and however you did it, you found that you were unable to make something that addressed what you percieved as flaws or shortfalls in these headphones. Well then, colour me impressed. Or you inept or our ears or tastes or priorities different. One of the last four, maybe a combination.

So, you almost had a point before, now I see you dont even have reading comprehension and are just being a dick for being a dicks sake, and accordingly I'm done with our exchange. Goodbye.

HONEYBOY; good luck with it, I hope its a good mod for you!
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 7:38 PM Post #10 of 14

sebhuber

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haha sorry but your mod is too late. Came up with my own mod, which consisted of gluing two tips together (large weird Christmas-tree shaped ones and the foamies). Didn't work as well as I expected, but who cares, it's just out of curiosity and entertainment.
 
Oct 8, 2009 at 8:21 PM Post #11 of 14

pdupiano

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Quote:

Originally Posted by D Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Youre focussing on one throwaway sentence. Good job. And all headfi members use ipods too. I didnt realise that. Well spotted.

And I said I searched, not lurked. I've looked in here half a dozen times, max, a few minutes a time save reading about IE8s the other night because this forum came up in google searches. Well done.

As to your experience with it - all are different, are they not? Now youre suggesting I'm lying. Why would I? If it was a dismal failure, as you suggest, or had significant (even noticable) downsides (as I percieve them at least), what do I have to gain by not saying them? Am I trying to sell this? Would I not, had the mod been a poor one, have anticipated that someone would try it, since thats the point of suggesting it, for people to try and find the same? Youre not making any sense, and are simply being combatative. I found it to be a very effective change. I'm making a tidier looking pair (rather than the test one whos effects I described) right now. Would I do that if it were a terrible idea? Excelent logic.



If you really believe that all of people's experiences are different, then why post this mod? Why post your impressions? If my impressions are bound to be different what is the point of this mod? ->That's true logic, not your BS above (btw I hope you realize that you are actually commenting in a sarcastic way with regards to your logic, not mine so in reality you're actually insulting yourself).

Quote:

Plus,

One, sacrifice tips - I said ones they're never going to use. All of your tips for all headphones have utility to you, or do you frame and display them for guests?

Two, not buy new tips, buy earplugs. This sort of thing Earfit Foam Ear Plugs 2 Pairs: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Leisure thats about 4 dollars. I can see how someone would struggle to pay their bills after that, I mean, we're in an economic downturn and I suggest paying 4 dollars for something? How incredibly impractical, and its a risky investment. So much to lose.


You're missing the point that your "help" is not help, because it costs someone something more than time. So it is not SIMPLY help but there are trade offs to it. You stated that you were just "helping" noobs and lurkers, but in reality you weren't because
1. Info was already out there
2. You are actually asking them to make certain sacrifices, small as they may be. And you do realize that $4 dollars can feed an entire family right? And THAT is in the US not in Ethiopia or some other third world country. So get over yourself.

Quote:

Three, in your experience, with whatever you assembled, whatever you made it from and however you did it, you found that you were unable to make something that addressed what you percieved as flaws or shortfalls in these headphones. Well then, colour me impressed. Or you inept or our ears or tastes or priorities different. One of the last four, maybe a combination.


Its not tastes, its just the plain nature of things, when's the last time you got something for nothing? There are Tradeoffs. All of these IEM's, products are based on Tradeoffs, which designers have debated over and after their work, created a finished product. Any and all mods will also make tradeoffs for certain properties (eg sacrificing higs for lows).

Quote:

So, you almost had a point before, now I see you dont even have reading comprehension and are just being a dick for being a dicks sake, and accordingly I'm done with our exchange. Goodbye.


Nice.

So in all this you've
1. Flamed Head-fi
2. Flamed me
3. Insulted my abilities

And all that I have done is
1. Call you out for flaming head-fi
2. Showed the "impossiblity" of your amazing (already done) mod

Congrats you win, you have more Jackass points than me
 
Oct 10, 2009 at 11:49 AM Post #13 of 14

D Man

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Quote:

Originally Posted by winwin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Dude, a guy is trying to help, you don't have to be too hostile. There was a similar thread to this but it was a bit different so this isn't really a redundant post.


Thanks
smily_headphones1.gif


Fwiw, I did something very similar with atrios; the foamies sounded too muddy and I couldnt get a decent consistent, stable fit with the silicone tips. Dismal failure (so never told anyone). They sounded way too brash; I dont think they're supposed to be that close to the eardrum; they benefit from the distance provided by their longer stock tips.

I also, just for good measure, spent this morning trying an ultimate ears universal fit kit with the IE8s. I liked mine better than any of those (double flange as a close second, and the most similar sound to mine; lows were marginally tighter, but sounded smaller as well, more high mids, but no better quality of high mids, and much more fiddly to get a seal and less comfortable for less isolation).
 

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