iDSD micro Black Label. Tour details (page 147). Release info (page 153).
Jun 4, 2014 at 4:53 PM Post #661 of 4,252
How does the headphone out on the micro iDSD compare to the iCan? If there still s ned for a iCan still?

 
Hi
 
The micro iCAN will remain as a dedicated desktop headphone amplifier running in Class A etc.
 
The micro iDSD will show the convergence of DAC and headphone amplifiers, for portable as well as desktop use.
 
If you are thinking of buying the iCAN or similar, probably best to hang fire until you can try side by side.
 
Thanks.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
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Jun 5, 2014 at 5:24 AM Post #663 of 4,252
  Does the iDSD micro accept DoP through coaxial?

 
Hi,
 
We are not sure why you would wish to convert USB > SPDIF when you can go straight USB because any such conversion by nature is lossy.
 
DoP like this is not possible.
 
Instead, let the source to convert DSD to PCM.
 
Thanks.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Jun 5, 2014 at 5:44 AM Post #665 of 4,252
   
Hi,
 
We are not sure why you would wish to convert USB > SPDIF when you can go straight USB because any such conversion by nature is lossy.
 
DoP like this is not possible.
 
Instead, et the source to convert DSD to PCM.
 
Thanks.

Let me clarify my question. I mean if I have a transport (not a computer) that can output DSD (DoP) via SPDIF, can the iDSD micro accept that?
 
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:06 PM Post #666 of 4,252
  is there an updated date as to when the micro iDSD will be available? 

 
Hi,
 
Global launch remains unchanged at early July (will set exact date soon) - on the respective day, North America, EU and Asia (in particular Japan) will all have their first shipment of micro iDSDs available in store.
 
In the worst case, there may be slippage of a week or so but not months.
 
Thanks.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:42 PM Post #667 of 4,252
  Let me clarify my question. I mean if I have a transport (not a computer) that can output DSD (DoP) via SPDIF, can the iDSD micro accept that?

 
Hi,
 
We haven't come across an SACD transport/disk drive that reads a SACD disk and then puts out DSD or DoP via SPDIF.
 
If you are getting at DoP-Flac, we did not implement this feature, as it is really fringe of the fringe of the fringe.
 
Thanks.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:51 PM Post #668 of 4,252
  Let me clarify my question. I mean if I have a transport (not a computer) that can output DSD (DoP) via SPDIF, can the iDSD micro accept that?

 
Hi,
 
DoP-Flac: we did not implement this feature as it is really fringe of the fringe of the fringe.
 
Thanks.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Jun 6, 2014 at 3:54 AM Post #671 of 4,252
Thank you!
 
One more quick question: I own a iDSD Nano. The new"direct DSD over ASIO" mode made possible with the new firmware is only possible under Windows, right? There's no similar option for OSX users? Or am I not understanding this right?
 
Jun 6, 2014 at 4:53 AM Post #672 of 4,252
Thorsten and gang have been a little quiet of late. We gave them a nudge and here is something they asked us to share with you.
 
 
Measurements Matter (Not!)  Part I of III – Hearing a fly fart at 20 feet
 
Noise. Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR)
Our team has just spent some time running the complete and working prototype (after redesigning the PSU and that little hiccup with the J-Fet switching) of the iDSD micro through the Audio Precision 2.
 
The test bench.

 
The micro iDSD has actually turned in a more than respectable performance.
 
I hasten to add that up to now there is little proven link between audio measurement results and subjectively perceived sound quality. Most standardised measurements originated in advertising and were standardised to avoid excessive misuse (but not completely eradicated
tongue_smile.gif
).
 
Many a designer who relies on measurements only, finds himself bothered, bewildered and thoroughly confused when many a listener prefers a better sounding product that measured distinctly poorer than his own.
 
That said, as some have already asked about measurements and it has never hurt to have respectable measured results, as long as the subjective listening results are also great
 
Well, here goes, the iDSD micro measured performance data. Please keep all these caveats in mind. The executive summary of the test results reads:
 
Line Out Level:        2.15V
SNR:                      117dB A-weighted
                 111dB unweighted
Line THD+N:           < 0.003% (@0dBFS)
HP THD+N:             < 0.008% HP (@0dBFS and 0.5W/16Ohm simulated headphone load)
Jitter:                     below AP System 2 measurement limit
 
The signal-noise ratio may seem "only very good" but what must be remembered is that we are running the line out at 2V (nominal, industry-standard) level and as usual, the analogue stage is the noise limit, not the DAC.
 
We could have boosted the SNR figure to make it look really sexy by choosing to set a higher line out level:
 
- for example setting the line out level to 4.25V would have produced a 6dB increase in SNR 117dB un-weighted and 123dB A-weighted*, which reads great but in the real world, this would have resulted in much less usable volume control range for anything we are driving. Even as it stands we are only 3dB (0.5 Bit) off a 20 Bit equivalent SNR**.
 
* The use of “A-weighting” is a long standing standard for dynamic range and SNR measurements in Digital Converters (ADC/DAC). All Datasheets nowadays quote the “A-weighted” number. Thus for consistency we always include A-weighted and unweighted SNR/DNR.
**  This is the true measure of any DAC’s or ADC’s resolution, also called ENOB (Equivalent Number Of Bit’s), for example a certain DAC that is promoted as “32 Bit/384KHz” actually shows a SNR of 100dB which is actually 16.5 Bit ENOB, despite all that 32 Bit stuff, so in analogue terms it has around halve the bits claimed…
 
 
For anyone who likes pretty graphs, we have oodles, this is the first of several select ones with short comments:
 
Graph 01 - iDSD micro White Noise Line 100k 1X 2X 4X 8X
 

This shows the frequency response of the iDSD micro using noise loading with different sample rates
48K (orange),
96K (red),
192K (purple) and
384k (blue)
plus the system noise floor at 384kHz.
 
- As the sample rate goes up we can see that the filtering of high frequencies is relaxed and by the time we are at 192kHz and above the filtering is very gentle, maximising time-domain (impulse) response fidelity.
- We could show a square wave, but it would look essentially perfect, so little point.
- The slight trade-off price is a little higher leakage of the ultrasonic images of the (noise) signal, however as most of it is 120dB down on full scale this is not very worrisome. I remember a professional recording engineer once describe -120dB as “Fly farts at 20 feet”…
 
We also take requests (for measurements) just ask. 
 
(to be cont’d.) Part II: Distortion 
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Jun 6, 2014 at 5:15 AM Post #673 of 4,252
  Thorsten and gang have been a little quiet of late. We gave them a nudge and here is something they asked us to share with you.
 
 
Measurements Matter (Not!)  Part I of III – Hearing a fly fart at 20 feet
 
Noise. Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR)
Our team has just spent some time running the complete and working prototype (after redesigning the PSU and that little hiccup with the J-Fet switching) of the iDSD micro through the Audio Precision 2.
 
The test bench.

 
The micro iDSD has actually turned in a more than respectable performance.
 
I hasten to add that up to now there is little proven link between audio measurement results and subjectively perceived sound quality. Most standardised measurements originated in advertising and were standardised to avoid excessive misuse (but not completely eradicated
tongue_smile.gif
).
 
Many a designer who relies on measurements only, finds himself bothered, bewildered and thoroughly confused when many a listener prefers a better sounding product that measured distinctly poorer than his own.
 
That said, as some have already asked about measurements and it has never hurt to have respectable measured results, as long as the subjective listening results are also great
 
Well, here goes, the iDSD micro measured performance data. Please keep all these caveats in mind. The executive summary of the test results reads:
 
Line Out Level:        2.15V
SNR:                      117dB A-weighted
                 111dB unweighted
Line THD+N:           < 0.003% (@0dBFS)
HP THD+N:             < 0.008% HP (@0dBFS and 0.5W/16Ohm simulated headphone load)
Jitter:                     below AP System 2 measurement limit
 
The signal-noise ratio may seem "only very good" but what must be remembered is that we are running the line out at 2V (nominal, industry-standard) level and as usual, the analogue stage is the noise limit, not the DAC.
 
We could have boosted the SNR figure to make it look really sexy by choosing to set a higher line out level:
 
- for example setting the line out level to 4.25V would have produced a 6dB increase in SNR 117dB un-weighted and 123dB A-weighted*, which reads great but in the real world, this would have resulted in much less usable volume control range for anything we are driving. Even as it stands we are only 3dB (0.5 Bit) off a 20 Bit equivalent SNR**.
 
* The use of “A-weighting” is a long standing standard for dynamic range and SNR measurements in Digital Converters (ADC/DAC). All Datasheets nowadays quote the “A-weighted” number. Thus for consistency we always include A-weighted and unweighted SNR/DNR.
**  This is the true measure of any DAC’s or ADC’s resolution, also called ENOB (Equivalent Number Of Bit’s), for example a certain DAC that is promoted as “32 Bit/384KHz” actually shows a SNR of 100dB which is actually 16.5 Bit ENOB, despite all that 32 Bit stuff, so in analogue terms it has around halve the bits claimed…
 
 
For anyone who likes pretty graphs, we have oodles, this is the first of several select ones with short comments:
 
Graph 01 - iDSD micro White Noise Line 100k 1X 2X 4X 8X
 

This shows the frequency response of the iDSD micro using noise loading with different sample rates
48K (orange),
96K (red),
192K (purple) and
384k (blue)
plus the system noise floor at 384kHz.
 
- As the sample rate goes up we can see that the filtering of high frequencies is relaxed and by the time we are at 192kHz and above the filtering is very gentle, maximising time-domain (impulse) response fidelity.
- We could show a square wave, but it would look essentially perfect, so little point.
- The slight trade-off price is a little higher leakage of the ultrasonic images of the (noise) signal, however as most of it is 120dB down on full scale this is not very worrisome. I remember a professional recording engineer once describe -120dB as “Fly farts at 20 feet”…
 
We also take requests (for measurements) just ask. 
 
(to be cont’d.) Part II: Distortion 

Please do show 1 kHz square wave response with all PCM and DSD resolutions/filter settings. For the 96 and up, you can use 6 kHz or 10 kHz square wave in order to show the superiority of DSD's pulse response. Intermodulation outside audio band measurements should also be presented; I do not agree with
 http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html  at all, but the arguments are valid and hirez equipment should be free of this kind of (mis)behaviour by default.
 
Jun 6, 2014 at 5:18 AM Post #674 of 4,252
can you get your hands on the iDSD Nano & make a comparison ?
 
Jun 6, 2014 at 5:27 AM Post #675 of 4,252
  can you get your hands on the iDSD Nano & make a comparison ?

Although the question was most probably meant for the ifi team, I do have iDSD Nano - on loan for a few (streeeetched for ? ) days. Still struggling with DSD players
( JRiver 19, HQPlayer, Foobar2000 ) on Win7 machine. All I could do is to post photos from square waves as displayed on analogue oscilloscope - better than digital storage display. I do not have spectrum and distortion analyzers.
 

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