Ideal headphone frequency reponse graph?
Sep 7, 2008 at 3:34 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 23

Kabeer

Vintage Ortho Ninja 🥷
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Posts
2,445
Likes
127
Hi,

I once found a site showing an ideal Freq. reponse graph for headpones (NOT flat as a ruler). It was called some fancy scientific name. But I can't find it again.

Does anyone know of it? Can you please post a link.

Thanks
 
Sep 7, 2008 at 5:23 PM Post #2 of 23
uh... flat?

see ya
Steve
 
Sep 7, 2008 at 6:26 PM Post #3 of 23
Sep 7, 2008 at 6:58 PM Post #5 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif
uh... flat?

see ya
Steve



Nope, its not flat, as seen by the article above flat is not ideal for headphones, it would sound unrealistic.
Iv edited my first post to actually make note of it, I just assumed that it was a given.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Diffuse Field Equalized Headphone?


Thanks for the link
smily_headphones1.gif
. That might be it....but im not entirely sure, I think I saw a slightly different graph.....
But if im wrong then this must be it.

See if there are any more answers.
 
Sep 8, 2008 at 12:11 AM Post #6 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Hi,

I once found a site showing an ideal Freq. reponse graph for headpones (NOT flat as a ruler). It was called some fancy scientific name. But I can't find it again.

Does anyone know of it? Can you please post a link.

Thanks



That's a very complicated question upon which experts do not seem to agree at all. It makes for lots of nice arguments though.
popcorn.gif


There are major problems in the design of headphones that don't apply to speakers. Due to the shape of the outer ear, which varies from person to person, big resonances can result from interactions due to the close proximity of the outer ear to the headphone drivers, especially in the treble frequencies (about 3 khz to 10 khz) resulting in very large treble spikes, especially if it's not considered in the design of the headphone. A little extra kick in the bass seems to be needed for headphones because we miss the visceral feeling of bass with headphones. The difference in imaging with headphones (no opportunity for the left ear to hear what is sent to the right ear and vice versa) can result in complications in the way the intensity of certain frequencies is perceived (for example, bass frequencies). There is a pretty well-established preferece for most people not to have neutral highs being blasted down their earholes (it strikes people as too much treble). And some people may want to listen to headphones at less than realistic live volumes, so the well-documented loudness compensation curve might come into play there. Etc.

Bottom line: There's still a lot of art in headphone design, IMHO.

I beleive that diffuse field equalization is just one school of thought for headphone design. The headphones I have heard that employ it I didn't really like at all (for example the AKG K240DF, I think it was called).

It seems to me that the really very difficult thing is, you can't run double blind tests with headphones as a practical matter, like you can with speakers, so it's not a problem that is susceptible to being solved with empirical data as to preferences using tests where you can scientifically remove bias. With speakers there is a lot of double-blind research and computer modeling and statistics as to what most people prefer. I don't think you could do that with headphones. So you may see patterns in the Senn sound, the AKG sound, the Grado sound, the Sony sound, the Beyer sound, each perhaps reflecting very different interpretations of how to navigate all of these problems.

Even just how to measure frequency response of headphones seems to be exceptionally problematic, much less what the ideal frequency response is if you think you can measure it.

Edit: I just noticed this link that ClieOS provided goes into a few of the issues I referred to in this post:

http://headwize.com/articles/hguide_art.htm#diffuse

One quote from the link:

A headphone with a true flat response will sound terrible, because what the ears perceive as a "flat" response actually has many peaks and valleys due to interaction of the sound with the listener's head before it reaches the ears. Instead, headphones are often equalized to sound flat.
 
Sep 8, 2008 at 6:29 AM Post #7 of 23
Diffuse field equalisation is equalisation that tries to mimic, in headphones, the response when sound is reflected (i.e., diffused) in a typical closed "room". Note that this differs from "ideal", which would be what you find described in Fletcher-Munson curves and the newer ISO 226.

"Flat" is most definitely not ideal.

A couple of caveats: "ideal" is only so for the average ear. Also, the "ideal" response changes with volume, as Hirsch already pointed out.
 
Sep 8, 2008 at 5:49 PM Post #8 of 23
The "ideal" response would be a response that gives the person listening a perceived flat response. Of course, this will vary from listener to listener, and the actual response will not be flat at all.
 
Sep 8, 2008 at 6:31 PM Post #9 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirsch /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Fletcher-Munson curves. Ideal frequency response changes with volume.


Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
........ "ideal", which would be what you find described in Fletcher-Munson curves and the newer ISO 226.

"Flat" is most definitely not ideal.

A couple of caveats: "ideal" is only so for the average ear. Also, the "ideal" response changes with volume, as Hirsch already pointed out.



Thanks guys, yes these Fletcher-Muson curves are exactly the graphs I had seen previously and was looking for.

I shall also look up what this ISO 226 is you are reffering to b0dhi.

Also all the other posts are cool too, makes very interesting reading. I think the controversial conclusion is that a headphone cant be as good as speakers...
ph34r.gif
 
Sep 11, 2008 at 11:45 AM Post #10 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabeer /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Also all the other posts are cool too, makes very interesting reading. I think the controversial conclusion is that a headphone cant be as good as speakers...
ph34r.gif



Well, you can use a HRTF.

I think the main problem when using headphones is that 99% of the recordings are stereophonic instead of being binaural. Also the fact that you are missing the physical sensation of the music is something you simply can not replicate when using headphones.
 
Sep 13, 2008 at 3:51 AM Post #11 of 23
The binaural thing is an overwhelming factor. Lack of binaural recordings and even a lack of proliferation of stereo-to-binaural DSPs is a severe buzzkill.

But regarding frequency response, I don't even see how frequency response could be measured well becaues everyone's ears are going to load the drivers differently. If there is a 'good headphone frequency response curve', it was probably arrived at by measuring headphones that 'sound good', anyway.
 
Sep 15, 2008 at 2:06 PM Post #12 of 23
My question is: If the recording was mastered in a room that is measured (mic) "flat" (or with that x db/octave slope) as they do in a lot of studios then why in the heck would we modify that instead of wanting the headphones to exactly reproduce the master? The mix would deal with the equal-loudness issues implicitly in this case (at least to the recording engineers ears).
 
Sep 16, 2008 at 2:56 AM Post #13 of 23
The whole "everyone's ears EQ the sound" just doesn't make logical sense to me. Whatever "filter" the ear uses when listening to speakers or headphones will also equally filter a live performance - so while it may be possible that everyone perceives a given piece of music (original or recording) differently, no headphone can "restore" the neutrality of the piece.
 
Sep 16, 2008 at 5:05 AM Post #14 of 23
If you have for example a microphone close to a singer's mouth, its going to record exactly what comes out of the mouth, but when you listen to it live your ears are not going to be where the microphone is. So you can't have a speaker with a flat response right next to your ear or it will sound like they are singing directly into your ears.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top