iBasso PB-2 Pelican fully balanced portable, DB-2 Dac . . HiFlight recommended op amps page 16. .
Jun 5, 2016 at 6:22 AM Post #1,336 of 1,604
...and I wonder if anyone is running a decently priced 16 volts linear power supply (ebay etc)  into their unit for desktop usage ?
As it would save the battery cycle life and avoid the stock inferior SMPS usage.
 
Jun 5, 2016 at 12:41 PM Post #1,337 of 1,604
Hi Lohb,

Welcome to PB2 land! Yes, it's sad that the trend shifted from separate components to all-in-one uber-DAPs, especially when you consider the ridiculously buggy UIs found in every DAP other than those made by Sony, which themselves suffer from having only 10- or 15mW peak output into 16-Ohms. Our choices, today, are confined by the ignorance of the masses and manufacturers' reasonable desire to meet the demands of the majority.

But those of us who have an understanding of the audible benefits of mix-and-match separate components, no tolerance for poor software, headphones that come to life only when given 300mW into 32-Ohms or more, and a willingness to carry and use the now unfashionable "bricks" of stacked gear, which have been branded as "inconvenient" by the legions of former Beats owners, whose highest priority remains rooted in fashion as they consider size and battery life (diametrically opposed objectives) to be more important than anything else... We still have yesteryear's hardware at our disposal, obsolete and unappreciated though it may be!

Wow, that dounds horribly elitist, reading it back, but I'll let it stand. I do my best to educate the newcomers, but the lure of the herd is difficult to overcome. I did, very recently, manage to convince a PB2 owner not to sell it (via a PM exchange), despite the fact that I would love to have a 2nd PB2, in reserve, should mine fail irreparably, in some way.

The PB2 is not just a great balanced amp, it's a veritable laboratory. I've learned so much and my ears have become quite experienced at critical listening - a skill attainable by anyone with healthy hearing, if they put in the time - rolling op-amps with various headphones.

My OPA1611-equipped Meier Stepdance is still going strong, but it's a one trick pony, despite its superlative transparency and neutrality - it is all you could want in an amp for use with many combinations of DAC and headphone, but certainly not all, most prominently excluding the Senn HD800, AKG K550, and Beyer DT880 600 and T1, among headphones I've owned, unless you use a DAC that smears or colors the signal coming into the Stepdance (a deplorable practice, in my opinion, seen far too often, as with people using the Schiit Vali with an HD800, morphing it into something less than it's capable of being.)

The PB2, on the other hand, is a lump of clay, ready and willing to to play whatever role you ask of it. Well, it does have some limitations. :D OK, that's enough of my tribute to the PB2.

Regarding fully balanced operation, you will have to use the balanced input of the PB2, not the TRS input, but I am strongly of the opinion that using balanced-output DACs is a waste of money, even for desktop amps, unless the distance to the amp is greater than three or four meters, where the benefits of common-mode noise rejection can actually be heard - or so they say, as I've never experienced going from a balanced DAC to unbalanced and back over a long cable run to the amp. I did so, using very short cables with the iBasso DB2 and could hear no benefits. The shorter your line level cables, the less benefit there is to going fully balanced, even theoretically, much less audibly.

Add to this my conviction that amps with both TRS and balanced output can sound better using balanced cables almost entirely due to the power increase had with going balanced, and not due to the mostly imagined benefits of common-mode noise reduction or cancellation of cross-channel impedance fluctuations. I genuinely believe such impairments to sound quality actually exist, as evidenced by Jan Meier's innovative implementation of his "Active Balance" feature in the Stepdance - where he injects a nulling signal to each transducer, to cancel the impedance fluctuations "felt" across the shared ground wire that can modulate the frequency response of dynamic headphones (not so much with the almost purely resistive planar magnetic headphones), BUT... I have never read any reviewers of any of the many uber-expensive desktop amps having only TRS output, tube or solid state, owned and loved by experienced afficianados of high-end gear, write anything close to a lament of this nature: "If only this otherwise supurb headphone amp had a balanced output to eliminate the cross-channel impedance fluctuations I'm hearing! It's got plenty of power, but the lack of common-mode noise rejection (on six-foot headphone cables) is another factor that earns this amp a big thumbs down!" Seriously, nobody complains of hearing these undesirable anomolies with single-ended amps. It's the benefits of additional power that people are hearing and enjoying by switching from a TRS jack to a 4-pin jack on amps that offer both, and even then, the power increase is audibly benefecial only when the transducers are sufficiently inefficient to perform their best with the power offered at the TRS jack.

The extremely popular and affordable Chinese-made Gustard H10 desktop amp offers both balanced and unbalnced inputs (for the sake of compatibility), yet only a TRS output! Bravo! They get it! But people wonder why it lacks balanced output! Ken Ball, of ALO, is on record as having defended his first portable amps, that had balanced input, but no balnced output, saying that the balanced input was just for compatibility with balanced portable DACs, while balanced output was unnecessary, given the amp's power at the TRS jack. He later succumbed to market pressure applied by the ill-informed masses, to produce amps with balanced output.

There are legions of very experienced, very satisfied, well-heeled users of single-ended amps that provide plenty of power for their headphones of choice, who couldn't care less about balanced output, much less, fully-balanced operation - because the benefits of sufficient power far outweigh any benefits of balanced operation, especially with short cable runs.

:)

Mike
 
Jun 5, 2016 at 1:55 PM Post #1,338 of 1,604
Oh, and regarding the use of a 16V LPS, for desktop purposes, I routinely power the PB2 with my Energizer XP8000, equipped with the 16V XPAL Willy Cable, all the while leaving the XP8000 attached to its AC charger.  
 
I can think of two DACs, one of which I own - the French-made Audiophonics PCM5102 - and one I've never heard, but that's much better known - the Ciúnas DAC -  where the (independent) designers have included battery packs inside the DACs, while simultaneously encouraging users to leave the DACs connected to external power supplies.  DACs are notoriously sensitive to ripple noise from power supplies, but here we have two examples of designers who are believe that battery packs do a great job of eliminating power supply noise, even that from switched-mode power supplies.  JKenney, of Ciúnas, has even published a DIY mod for theUptone Audio USB Regen, which he believes can improve the quality of the USB signal it delivers to your DAC of choice, by bypassing what Uptone has said is one of the highest quality, low-noise, voltage regulators they could find for driving the 3.3V circuits within the USB Regen. I've not tried it, nor do I have any interest in doing so, but JKenney advises opening up the USB Regen and soldering leads from an external battery pack that's trickle-charged with any old 5V LPS of your choosing, that is itself regulated by any old 3.3V regulator of your choosing. So, the external battery pack is plugged into a noisy 5V supply that's regulated down to 3.3V with a potentially noisy regulator, to keep a nominally 3.7V battery pack trickle charged at a constant 3.3V, with sufficient amps to meet the diminutive 40mA load of the USB Regen's internal circuits. And voila, he claims the battery pack will eliminate any and all noise coming from either its AC charger or the external voltage regulator that holds the voltage coming into the external battery pack at 3.3V - at least to a degree that outperforms the noise generated by the USB Regen's own, internal, state-of-the-art 3.3V regulator. And Uptone Audio (Alex and John) admit that the internal voltage regulator generates noise of its own, but they tested many possibilities before settling on that one and have only pointed out that doing such mods would violate their warranty.
 
My point in sharing all of this is to put your mind at ease about powering the PB2 with an AC-attached XP8000 + 16V Willy Cable.  The inline voltage regulator offers a much greater threat to achieving a low noise floor than does leaving the XP8000 attached to its AC charger, and the question becomes: Can you find a regulated, 16V LPS that is as quiet as the XP8000 + inline regulator?  I don't feel any incentive to go hunting for a solution to that "problem," because, in my experience and that of many other people, whatever is inside those inline Willy Cable regulators is pitch black, in terms of impact on noise floor - even with the Stepdance and noise-sensitive IEMs - where the Stepdance bypasses its internal battery pack entirely, once connected to external power. Some people have even noticed external noise coming from their Willy Cables - like a high-pitched whine - not loud enough to interfere with even the most open headphone designs, as long as you don't hold the Willy Cable right next to your head - but some people have used these "whining" Willy Cables with the Stepdance, reporting no signal noise, whatsoever.  
 
I really don't know what's available, but I think you'd have to get into some big bucks to find a 16V LPS that's as quiet as an XP8000+Willy Cable, with or without the AC charger attached.  You can easily test the (zero) impact of the AC charger, by disconnecting and reconnecting the charger while listening to the PB2 with a track that has a lot of recorded "silence."  (Again, people are designing DACs with batteries inside, just to filter LPS noise.)
 
:)
 
Mike
 
Jun 6, 2016 at 12:34 AM Post #1,339 of 1,604
Thanks for all the balanced/battery input Mike.
 
I know the Bakoon current drive amps uses a similar internal battery schematic as you describe.
I'll just skip the LPS I had bookmarked - they give you a custom plug for the device you need to power -
 
16 volts set unit with correct power plug length/breadth
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112007457911?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=410948176767&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
 
But as you say, the Energizer XP8000, equipped with the 16V XPAL Willy Cable will be hard to beat even with an entry-level LPS.
 
Looking forward to trying the V5i Burson chips in it with dummy buffers I guess, as the seller has the stock opamp kit and I remember you used your LME49xxxx opamp chips in the dummy buffer slot with your V5 Bursons before the heat issues cropped up with those V5 units.
 
I just saw the gain difference between balanced and unbalanced output on the iBasso PB2 instruction PDF.
So maybe I can find a sweet-spot for IEMs and planars (maybe medium gain) but I doubt it....I'd only get Fostex T20Mk2 and IEMs in a kind of extreme low/high volume dial range but getting IEMs and LCD 2.1s to work on same jumper setting will be near impossible !
I'd like to strip the unit down and anodize it like ALO stuff, but fear breaking something in the process.
 
Jun 6, 2016 at 3:27 AM Post #1,340 of 1,604
Hi Lohb,
 
I've not had any heat problems with the Burson V5 Duals in the "topless" PB2.  The only problem I've had after getting two that were not defective on arrival is that they were too tall to close the lid.  :)   I still love their sound, but so far, I like the Sparkos SS3602 a little more.
 
The V5i should be a much better fit for the PB2 than either the V5 or the Sparkos op-amps, so I might try those eventually.
 
For only $55 U.S., you've really got me interested in that 16V LPS, now.  It has an R-Core transformer, which is typically quieter than EI or toroidal transformers.  A lot of guys on the computeraudiophile.com USB Regen thread are big fans of some of these Chinese R-Core LPS units.  
 
Have a look at this one:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30VA-30W-115V-230V-To-DC18V-HiFi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-CL-219-/111558067765
 
Here's a 2x enlarged crop from one of the photos in that listing, which shows a little brass screw on a white component, next to the voltage regulator's heat sink.  
 
780ad1a3__57.jpeg

 
That's where you can adjust the output voltage yourself (be careful what you touch with the screwdriver), while referencing the handy, built-in voltmeter display.
 
I'm chuckling at myself for having been so dogmatic about the XP8000 + Willy Cable, but if you've a mind to experiment and you can't hear any change in the noise floor, this would be a little tidier on your desktop.  :)
 
Jun 6, 2016 at 4:36 AM Post #1,341 of 1,604
I'm currently waiting on an answer from iBasso on the PB2 plug width/length.
The ebay one is
 

 
""" DC cable head size: 5.5*2.1mm  ( if you need other size. Please contact us) """
 
Jun 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM Post #1,342 of 1,604
  Hi Lohb,
 
I've not had any heat problems with the Burson V5 Duals in the "topless" PB2.  The only problem I've had after getting two that were not defective on arrival is that they were too tall to close the lid.  :)   I still love their sound, but so far, I like the Sparkos SS3602 a little more.
 
The V5i should be a much better fit for the PB2 than either the V5 or the Sparkos op-amps, so I might try those eventually.
 
For only $55 U.S., you've really got me interested in that 16V LPS, now.  It has an R-Core transformer, which is typically quieter than EI or toroidal transformers.  A lot of guys on the computeraudiophile.com USB Regen thread are big fans of some of these Chinese R-Core LPS units.  
 
Have a look at this one:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/30VA-30W-115V-230V-To-DC18V-HiFi-Linear-power-supply-Regulated-PSU-CL-219-/111558067765
 
Here's a 2x enlarged crop from one of the photos in that listing, which shows a little brass screw on a white component, next to the voltage regulator's heat sink.  
 
780ad1a3__57.jpeg

 
That's where you can adjust the output voltage yourself (be careful what you touch with the screwdriver), while referencing the handy, built-in voltmeter display.
 
I'm chuckling at myself for having been so dogmatic about the XP8000 + Willy Cable, but if you've a mind to experiment and you can't hear any change in the noise floor, this would be a little tidier on your desktop.  :)


I'm surprised you never gave the Caiman Mk2 DAC a shot after the Bushmaster Mk2....
Been following Caiman Mk2 DAC on another forum, he keeps improving the unit via chip FLASH updates.
 
Jun 6, 2016 at 11:44 PM Post #1,344 of 1,604
Since iBasso is planning on releasing the PB3, can someone tell me what's the original price of the PB2 since I believe it will be priced the same as the previous gen. Or looking at their current lineup I would say it would belong to the 3-400$ price range hopefully.
 
Jun 7, 2016 at 9:20 AM Post #1,347 of 1,604
   
OK - now I need a reference, please.  I can't find any mention of the PB3 other than people wishing it were coming - since way back.

https://www.facebook.com/iBassoAudio/?fref=ts
Here's the official iBasso product page, they update it frequently so definitely check it out. Also the new PB3 despite the name take quite a different approach compared to the PB2 with slimmer and more compact design so no more opamp rolling, make sense as the P5 is an upgrade to the PB2 already.
 
Jun 7, 2016 at 11:23 AM Post #1,348 of 1,604
  https://www.facebook.com/iBassoAudio/?fref=ts
Here's the official iBasso product page, they update it frequently so definitely check it out. Also the new PB3 despite the name take quite a different approach compared to the PB2 with slimmer and more compact design so no more opamp rolling, make sense as the P5 is an upgrade to the PB2 already.


No opamp rolling then it is only PB in name.
The core of it is the opamp rolling/SQ dialing and the sheer balanced power for hard to drive headphones.
 
Jun 7, 2016 at 1:19 PM Post #1,349 of 1,604
The P5 doesn't have balance in or output but is pretty much the PB2 upgraded so I don't think it makes sense to make 2 similar product, especially considering how small the marketshare for portable amp is.
 
Jun 8, 2016 at 4:28 PM Post #1,350 of 1,604
  https://www.facebook.com/iBassoAudio/?fref=ts
Here's the official iBasso product page, they update it frequently so definitely check it out. Also the new PB3 despite the name take quite a different approach compared to the PB2 with slimmer and more compact design so no more opamp rolling, make sense as the P5 is an upgrade to the PB2 already.

 
Thank you, ph0n6!
 
Yes, it seems to be designed to suit the masses...  
 
/sarc/
 
We want everything to be slickly styled, smaller, lighter and more convenient, with USB charging and a longer battery life!  
 
Oh wait...  All of those must-haves will compromise power output and sound quality! Oh well! That's what we want! Give it to us!
 
/end sarc/
 

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