[Eagle_Driver]

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Originally posted by blr Sorry to say this, but if you want good quality from the headphone jack, you're pretty much stuck with something older. The newest Pana line as has been reported by many and from what I could hear from a 5 min long audition in a store sound even crappier than your EJ721. I'm talking about CT790 in particular. CT780 may be a bit better, but then if you're in the US-no line out and no uncompressed headout eighter. Concerning batteries, all new high end players work on pair of gumsticks. The in-built chargers usually abuse the batteries badly (overcharging) which shortens their life. In most cases they're gone (or at least have a decreased capacity) in about 18 months and cost $40 to replace. On the other hand some older and/or mid-of-the-line models use AA cells. Just pick for high capacity NiMh cells and an external charger and it will save you money in a long run.

Having owned the US-market SL-CT790, the D-EJ1000 and the D-EJ721, I'd say that they're all flawed. The SL-CT790 has slightly bloated mid-bass response, while the D-EJ721 has significantly reduced treble response. The D-EJ1000 is clearly the worst of the lot from their headphone jack: The treble is even further reduced from the already rolled-off response of the D-EJ721, and the D-EJ1000 distorts badly on some recordings at about 60% of maximum volume, especially with low-impedance headphones/earphones. On the other hand, the D-EJ1000's line out is clearly better than that of the D-EJ721 (which sounds slightly grainy in comparison).

So, despite the trouble with the headphone-out sound quality of recent Sony PCDPs, I took yet another chance with that brand - and bought myself a D-EJ2000 this past Tuesday. Here is my brief review, copied and pasted from a reply in another thread:

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Originally posted by Eagle_Driver I went out and purchased myself a D-EJ2000. (Okay, we folks in the USA get only the black D-EJ2000; people in some other countries can get that PCDP in silver.) Listening to the D-EJ2000, I'd say fuggedabout the slightly older models in the D-EJ### series of CD Walkman players. Earlier ones, such as the D-EJ925, D-EJ955 and D-EJ1000, actually roll off the highs sharply at their headphone outputs. Worse, in my experience the D-EJ1000 distorts on loud piano notes even when the volume control is barely more than halfway up. The D-EJ2000 - and I'm talking about the 5.0 mW/ch North American version, NOT the wimpy 0.5 mW/ch European version - has better top-end extension than previous Sony CD Walkman players with G-Protection that I have heard. Also, it distorted on loud piano notes only when the volume control of that D-EJ2000 is maxed out (like a good PCDP should). Better still, it has enough power to produce moderately loud volume from most CDs and with even a good pair of Grados. And speaking of full-sized headphones, you can even plug in Grado (or as bangraman put it, Grato ) headphones directly into the new remote, without having to mod the plug housing at all whatsoever; the remote bundled with the D-EJ925 and D-EJ1000 couldn't properly accomodate such wide-handled mini-plugs. Oh, did I forget to mention that the D-EJ2000 still has a combined line-out/optical-out jack, unlike high-end North American Panasonics that still have a headphone-out jack as their only audio output? Overall, the (North American) D-EJ2000 is one of the best high-end Sony PCDPs offered since the advent of G-Protection back in the year 1999. That's a big improvement, especially after the disappointment of last year's flagship Sony PCDP, the D-EJ1000. (The current D-EJ985 and D-EJ885 should perform similarly to, though a bit less refined than, the flagship D-EJ2000.) Happy portable listening, Eagle_Driver

So far, I like the D-EJ2000 more than I did any of the PCDPs that I had purchased since I sought a replacement for my semi-retired Panasonic SL-SW850.

 

[Duncan]

Eagle...

The combined results of your Rightmark Test and your own personal credit passed to this player really do have me intesrested in hearing what a 'fully powered' EJ2000 sounds like...

Does the unit crap out at higher volumes how the EJ1000 does... or to spin it another way, can you use all of the scope of the volume control? - Also - how much does this unit cost in the US? - its about £140 in the UK... but having such a feeble output... I could be tempted to pick up a unit from the US, and get it shipped over to me...

Thanks

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Eagle... The combined results of your Rightmark Test and your own personal credit passed to this player really do have me intesrested in hearing what a 'fully powered' EJ2000 sounds like... Does the unit crap out at higher volumes how the EJ1000 does... or to spin it another way, can you use all of the scope of the volume control? - Also - how much does this unit cost in the US? - its about £140 in the UK... but having such a feeble output... I could be tempted to pick up a unit from the US, and get it shipped over to me... Thanks

Duncan...

For the record, the D-EJ2000 retails for $200 USD here in the US. As for 'crapping out' at higher volumes, the D-EJ2000 only craps out at or near its maximum volume setting. Just don't set the volume control past 28/30, and you won't hear much distortion.

 

[PeterR]

£117.62 (and silver):
http://www.audiocubes.com/product_in...roducts_id=306

 

[Canman]

There is one for $160 US Buy it now on e-bay. They will only ship in North America, but Duncan if you want to pick one of these up I could help you out.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Okay, so all of my listening on the D-EJ2000 so far is with relatively high impedance headphones - in particular, headphones with an impedance rating of 32 ohms or higher. Today, I plugged in a pair of 16-ohm Sony MDR-EX70LP earphones... Bleh! I noticed clipping distortion on my Brubeck CD (the factory-mastered CD, not a homemade burn) - at a volume setting of 27/30 or higher. At least the volume was adequately loud before the player started clipping (unlike the D-EJ1000 of mine, whose output clipped with 16-ohm earphones at 19/30 or higher - and at that setting, the volume was barely usable!

).

 

[D-EJ915]

On my S1 (with D66), it begins to sound bad (really bad) at about 28, and at 30 it's unbearable, I just can't listen to that level, well, that's amazingly loud anyway, so I'm fine, I usually listen to about 20 at most, and I'd say 14/16 sounds the best

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I think I am going to give up on unamped portable audio bliss.

You see, the very headphones that are highest in sensitivity (and thus best suited for use with portable audio players) tend to be of very or extremely low impedance, which can actually overtax the portable players' internal amp circuitry - and either produce nasty distortion or weak bass response [hence the claims of "MegaBass", "X-Bass", "Duh-m-Bass(tm)", etc. on super-high-sensitivity headphones, which tend to suffer from severely coloured audio response]. And high-impedance headphones - the kind that produce the flattest, deepest bass response from portable players - tend to be relatively low in efficiency (and thus low in sensitivity, when both high impedance and low efficiency are combined), thus resulting in weak overall sound.

And based on my new tests on most of my portable CD players, I'd say that 32-ohm headphones - and NOT 16-ohm headphones - are the best compromise between high efficiency/sensitivity and decent bass response when used with portable players without an amp. Strangely, the use of 64-ohm headphones tend to produce a very slight hump in the mid-bass response of all of the PCDPs used in my tests.

And speaking of maximum usable output power, I tested the players (US-market models, of course

) into 16 ohms. If the 8mW per channel figure of the Panasonic SL-CT790 is accurate, then the Panasonic SL-SW850 would have a maximum usable power output of (gasp!) 20mW/ch! And the 9mW/ch rating of the Panasonic SL-CT470 would also be accurate, while the newer Sony D-EJ2000 would also be rated at about 9mW/ch, and the D-EJ721 would be 7.5mW/ch. But the D-EJ1000 would be a c(r)apped-out wimp, at a measly 1.4mW/ch.

D-EJ1000

oooooyeeeeoouuch!

 

[PeterR]

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Strangely, the use of 64-ohm headphones tend to produce a very slight hump in the mid-bass response of all of the PCDPs used in my tests.

That's not because of the 64 ohms, but because this particular set of 64-ohm phones has a stronger impedance peak than your other phones - in general, this effect will be stronger into lower impedances.

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And speaking of maximum usable output power, I tested the players (US-market models, of course ) into 16 ohms. If the 8mW per channel figure of the Panasonic SL-CT790 is accurate, then the Panasonic SL-SW850 would have a maximum usable power output of (gasp!) 20mW/ch!

What do you mean, "if"? How are you testing?

 

[Eagle_Driver]

PeterR, I have no way of determining the actual power. But under the 16-ohm load, I actually tested the maximum usable decibel level - which is just below the volume setting at which the RightMark "reference tone" began to distort (clip). (Here, the Sony D-EJ1000 has a significantly lower maximum usable output volume than the other PCDPs that I tested.) But the units with a digital volume control don't adjust continuously, but instead are "stepped".

My test setup is simple: I used a headphone Y-adapter which is used to connect two sets of headphones to a single headphone jack. I connected the headphones which were rated nominally at the impedance load to be tested to one jack, while connecting a patch cable from the other jack to the line-in of my computer's sound card (M-Audio Revolution). (And yes, the Y-cable connects two output devices in parallel with one another.)

To be exact, the headphones used are the following:
16 ohms: Sony MDR-EX70LP
32 ohms: Sennheiser MX 400
63 ohms: Sony MDR-7506
300 ohms: Sennheiser HD 600 with Cardas upgrade cable

PeterR, I assume that you're using simple resistors to test the output. This makes some sense, since unlike headphones, resistors have a flat "impedance" curve that doesn't change with frequency. (The Sony MDR-7506, which I used to test the frequency response at 63 ohms, has a rather large impedance hump in the mid-bass region - while some other headphones have a relatively flat impedance curve. That may explain the mid-bass hump in the response curve.) Unfortunately, I have no access to any resistors or combination of resistors that have the exact ohm values (to make those representative values, I would have had to use dozens of resistors wired in a combination of parallel and series connections just to achieve a single set value), so I had to use actual headphones.

 

[Fish Tank X]

If I remember the Koss Portapros were high impedence high efficency headhpones.

 

[PeterR]

Quote:

Originally posted by Eagle_Driver PeterR, I have no way of determining the actual power. But under the 16-ohm load, I actually tested the maximum usable decibel level - which is just below the volume setting at which the RightMark "reference tone" began to distort (clip). (Here, the Sony D-EJ1000 has a significantly lower maximum usable output volume than the other PCDPs that I tested.) But the units with a digital volume control don't adjust continuously, but instead are "stepped".

Ah, I see. Yes, that should get you in the ballpark.

Quote:

PeterR, I assume that you're using simple resistors to test the output. This makes some sense, since unlike headphones, resistors have a flat "impedance" curve that doesn't change with frequency.

Yes, exactly. From the data I'Ve gathered it's actually no problem to calculate the 1kHz output impedance (and therefore the interaction with the phones' impedance) of the players. Should I add this to my measurement results?
Quote:

(The Sony MDR-7506, which I used to test the frequency response at 63 ohms, has a rather large impedance hump in the mid-bass region - while some other headphones have a relatively flat impedance curve. That may explain the mid-bass hump in the response curve.)

Yes.
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Unfortunately, I have no access to any resistors or combination of resistors that have the exact ohm values

Using the nearest standard value would be perfectly fine (say 15/33/68/330 ohms). I use trimpots, BTW

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so I had to use actual headphones.

Nothing wrong with that, if you're aware of the influence the headphones themselves have on the result.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Yep, I've tested the D-EJ2000's output with two other headphones with nominal impedance ratings between 60 and 64 ohms (inclusively): the Koss Porta-somethings and the Sennheiser HD 280 Pro. The Koss made the D-EJ2000's output produce an even bigger hump in the mid-bass region than the Sony 7506 did, while the Senn's actually flattened the D-EJ2000's output curve. Which means that not all 60~64 ohm headphones have an impedance peak in the mid-bass region.

 

[Fish Tank X]

Well, i'm a bit of a basshead, contrasting from coming from Sony-E838's (Which manage to completly mask a bassline) so i'd apreciate the increased bass. How would you compare say, a DEJ-925 to a DEJ2000 in terms of fidelity when working with the portapros or the KSC-35s?

 

[Fish Tank X]

And how do the Sony E888's work with the E2000?