[GabrielBosky]

Hello to everybody and, particularly who will be so patient to read and give me some tips!
As I wrote in my presentation, I'm new in audiophile world, and I arrived here casually: I was guitar player for a long time and I bought a pair of Beyerdynamic DT990pro 250 for studying sessions and it don't sound too bad with a simple creative xfi fatal1ty soundcard with "platinum series" front connectors.
Obviously the headphones sounds better with a an hold kenwood hi fi.
Now I transferred from my town to my actual base: new work, new life. No time for guitar but more time to listen music but I decided to invest some money in something new (I leave the DT990 in my old home so i have something new to lesten well).

SO

I bought a pair of Sennheiser HD650 after some other ""headphones"" and the decision to change my soundcard.
So I bought the Creative X7 limited (at good price) and early i had to buy an headphone amplifier: my decision was the Valhalla 2 from Schiit!
My best choose ever... Not for my wallet for shure! I discovered a new world and I started to pretend more from what I listen and the sound arrive to me.
I like, Valhalla with HD 650 but I have the impression they are very limited with my soundcard.

WHERE IS THE POINT?
I hear as the music is little tight, hold in little space, specially if I don't use the direct mode.
With direct mode the sound seems to clear and certainly more natural, i loose some bass power but i gain in their definition!
What about this card as DAC? I chose it for is 127db SNR and its 24/192 asynchronous system but maybe this was a bad choose! I am in the return period so I want your advice: I think to buy the Schiit Gungnir Multibit as DAC...

In this way I hope to gain in sound spatiality and instruments separation. Better quality... Can be this the right way?!
In this case maybe the X7 will comes useless. So maybe I can return it.
I saw also the GUSTARD DAC X20 Pro Super Ultimate 2 a little bit less expensive and with some good specifics on his side!

I have also the necessity to have a way to use guitar processors programs and the creative audio helps!
So I really need new DAC? How mutch i can improve my sound with gungnir? I cam resend the X7 back?
Any other (not used) DACs to consider? (Budget from 500 to 1500€, obviously something that matches with Valhalla 2 and Senn)
Thank you for your patience, I hope I didn't bored anyone
Waiting for your reply

 

[buke9]

Sorry your English I’m not sure if I understand right but if you mean if you get a new dac that will give the HD-650’s more soundstage then that will not happen.

 

[cossix]

Yea the dac won't give the 650 more soundstage but it will add detail. IMO the Gungnir is a bit overkill for the 650. Perhaps a Modi Multibit or Bifrost?

 

[GabrielBosky]

Sorry your English I’m not sure if I understand right but if you mean if you get a new dac that will give the HD-650’s more soundstage then that will not happen.

Sorry my bad english.
I hope to explain better: if I turn direct mode on O hear the sound more natural and I hear a barely good separation of the instrument. In other words i feel like there is more space for all and not so closed as sound is with the X7's processing.
I overall want to improve these things, I also want better sound quality and to have a better way to listen.

Yea the dac won't give the 650 more soundstage but it will add detail. IMO the Gungnir is a bit overkill for the 650. Perhaps a Modi Multibit or Bifrost?

Why, for you the gungnir is overkill? Modi is very less expensive, but i can gain in quality so much in comparison with my soundcard's dac? Bifrost? I don't know, for me seems like a "middle way" (an italian expression, something is not to convenient and not so good, apparently!).

 

[buke9]

Sorry my bad english.
I hope to explain better: if I turn direct mode on O hear the sound more natural and I hear a barely good separation of the instrument. In other words i feel like there is more space for all and not so closed as sound is with the X7's processing.
I overall want to improve these things, I also want better sound quality and to have a better way to listen.

Why, for you the gungnir is overkill? Modi is very less expensive, but i can gain in quality so much in comparison with my soundcard's dac? Bifrost? I don't know, for me seems like a "middle way" (an italian expression, something is not to convenient and not so good, apparently!).

Sorry do not understand what you mean for sure. I’m going to take a shot at it. You have bought the HD-650’s and don’t think tHey have a great soundstage then well you are right they do not.

 

[Dulalala]

Unfortunately, I can't exactly understand what's going on either... But I'm assuming he's asking about this "direct mode" on his soundcard's?

hope to explain better: if I turn direct mode on O hear the sound more natural and I hear a barely good separation of the instrument.

His description makes it sound like some sort of DSP.

What about this card as DAC? I chose it for is 127db SNR and its 24/192 asynchronous system but maybe this was a bad choose! I am in the return period so I want your advice: I think to buy the Schiit Gungnir Multibit as DAC...

In this way I hope to gain in sound spatiality and instruments separation. Better quality... Can be this the right way?!
In this case maybe the X7 will comes useless. So maybe I can return it.

If you want better soundstage, just buy another headphone. As others have mentioned, getting a better DAC isn't going to do that. The HD650 just have a closed off feeling to them, it's more of the sonic characteristics of the headphone rather than your DAC. You could also use DSP if you feel inclined too.

 

[GabrielBosky]

Sorry do not understand what you mean for sure. I’m going to take a shot at it. You have bought the HD-650’s and don’t think tHey have a great soundstage then well you are right they do not.

Sorry for this question, but i can't find a translation for the right meaning of "Soundstage". Seems to be a technical word and I want to be shure what you mean

By my side, I mean: starting from an integrated profile audio of the X7 card (Music) to soundcard without profile to sound card set in direct mode (soundcard processing bypassed) the sound seem to expand, with the profile I listen a good eq emphasis but i feel every sound of each instrument like very near to my ears, in the second case in feel more..... distance! Each instrument sound clear and in a tridimensional space. In the third case i ear just a little bit clarity, more definition (but i know the sound card process are 24/96 and direct mode are 24/192).

Sorry for this other question: what headphone have a great soundstage, whatever it means?

 

[GabrielBosky]

I understand there is a problem: we don't speak the same language i don't mean Italian and English but Technical and Audiophile language from one side and simple Listener on the other side!
Something like to want to explain what is a cheesecake without know the meaning of the words cheese and cake but only describing what a feel eating it :/

 

[GabrielBosky]

Anyway: in terms of sound quality how i can gain with a simple modi or bifrost? How much gungnir can improve the sound in comparison with X7?
A dac upgrade worth the money? (Not in terms of Soundstage, i understood this is a specific characteristic of the headphone, and maybe from this side i have to try my old 990pro...)

 

[cossix]

Compared to the soundcard, the Modi Multibit and Bifrost are far from simple. They'll sound much better than the X7 and the Gungnir will sound better than them all. It just seems silly to me, to spend $1,300 on a dac for a $300 headphone and a Valhalla 2. It would have made more sense to bought an $800 amp and $800 dac with that money. It's always a good idea to keep your gear the same value. That's why you don't put $3500 tires on a 2005 Honda Civic

 

[GabrielBosky]

Compared to the soundcard, the Modi Multibit and Bifrost are far from simple. They'll sound much better than the X7 and the Gungnir will sound better than them all. It just seems silly to me, to spend $1,300 on a dac for a $300 headphone and a Valhalla 2. It would have made more sense to bought an $800 amp and $800 dac with that money. It's always a good idea to keep your gear the same value. That's why you don't put $3500 tires on a 2005 Honda Civic

I followed your reasoning and I have to agree with it if i think gungnir have more sense with, example, the hd800. I really like Valhalla 2 and I like how the hd650 sounds with it. I bought them less than a week ago and I know they arent at their 100% yet, so... It's insane to think to upgrade changing amp and headphones.
Yesterday morning I talked with the Italian official Schiit seller and he suggested me to take the Modi Multibit or Gungnir instead Bifrost, maybe following your same reasoning: he said to buy Modi and, eventually, resell it when I'll be shure to upgrade all the system.
Ok! Perfect! The Gungnir will be untapped with my Senn: little step back! Thank you!
Now, I think to understand also that Modi multibit and Bifrost Multibit aren't so different but, for shure, they are a good improvement in comparison with X7, right?
So: what about to spend double of the price for Bifrost Multibit instead Modi MB?

 

[cossix]

I followed your reasoning and I have to agree with it if i think gungnir have more sense with, example, the hd800. I really like Valhalla 2 and I like how the hd650 sounds with it. I bought them less than a week ago and I know they arent at their 100% yet, so... It's insane to think to upgrade changing amp and headphones.
Yesterday morning I talked with the Italian official Schiit seller and he suggested me to take the Modi Multibit or Gungnir instead Bifrost, maybe following your same reasoning: he said to buy Modi and, eventually, resell it when I'll be shure to upgrade all the system.
Ok! Perfect! The Gungnir will be untapped with my Senn: little step back! Thank you!
Now, I think to understand also that Modi multibit and Bifrost Multibit aren't so different but, for shure, they are a good improvement in comparison with X7, right?
So: what about to spend double of the price for Bifrost Multibit instead Modi MB?

I believe the Bifrost Multibit is better than Modi Multibit, BUT the Modi Multibit is a better value in terms of price to performance. If that doesn't make sense, I'll put it this way. If the sound quality from the Modi Multibit is worth $250, then the sound quality from Bifrost Multibit should be $400, not the $600 it costs. These are just examples of course and if you want the Bifrost Multibit, it's still a good choice.

 

[GabrielBosky]

I believe the Bifrost Multibit is better than Modi Multibit, BUT the Modi Multibit is a better value in terms of price to performance. If that doesn't make sense, I'll put it this way. If the sound quality from the Modi Multibit is worth $250, then the sound quality from Bifrost Multibit should be $400, not the $600 it costs. These are just examples of course and if you want the Bifrost Multibit, it's still a good choice.

It was like I supposed to be!
I continued to inform myself and I read some good options about GUSTARD DAC-X20, some people consider its sound quality better than Gungnir... I can take it at the same price of the Bifrost Multibit, and can be a good base if i'll choose to upgrade headphone and amps in future at good price and, maybe, a better value in price performance...
This have sense for you?

 

[cossix]

It was like I supposed to be!
I continued to inform myself and I read some good options about GUSTARD DAC-X20, some people consider its sound quality better than Gungnir... I can take it at the same price of the Bifrost Multibit, and can be a good base if i'll choose to upgrade headphone and amps in future at good price and, maybe, a better value in price performance...
This have sense for you?

The X20 is great!