I don't like my new AKG K712 Pros and I want to exchange for something else.
Oct 31, 2016 at 2:26 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

Chetter Hummin

New Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Posts
4
Likes
0
Hello,
I'm new to HiFi and just invested in the most expensive gear I've ever owned. I bought a Schiit Jotenheim amp with DAC module, which as far as I can tell is fantastic. I'm also using Tidal HiFi streaming for source. Very clean and powerful. I also bought a pair of AKG K712 Pros, and I don't like them at all. I would greatly appreciate any advice you can give me on what I ought to pursue next.
 
First, I will explain what I don't like about the AKGs:
- While the soundstage appears to be very large, I think it lacks what everybody is calling "imaging" (I think). It's like the sound is wide but I can't quite place "where" any of the instruments are located. 
- They just sound "muddy". I don't know if there is a technical term for this but it's like I'm listening to them through through water or something. Bass is kind of weak and the voices and instruments just sound filtered---not pouring over me all pure, clarion, and present. 
- The music doesn't sound properly engineered. It's like all the instruments are there but they sound cacophonous, like they're all just coming at me from all directions. No orchestration.
 
Second, I'll explain what I'm looking for:
- I want that pure, rich experience where the music just penetrates you. Listening to my Parrot Ziks (closed cans designed for noise cancellation and BT for Apple products) from my cheap Android phone is even able to do this for me to some degree. I want those rich vocals that just pour over me and powerful, but balanced bass that makes the music fun for everybody, not just 15 year olds.
- I will be using these for PC games as well, so something that doesn't totally crap the bed in that arena. 
- Comfortable
 
Question:
1) If I had to make a decision today, I'd send back my AKGs and next try out Sinn HD650s, Hifiman HE-400i, or Fidelio Xs, or Fostex T50RPs. Would any of these get me where I want to be, or do I need to get electrostatics or something?
2) Is there another headphone in the $300ish price range that would give me what I'm looking for?
3) Would closed or semi-closed cans like the Fostex T50s be better (I ask this because my Parrots are closed, and I love the bass tones and how in ASMR videos it really feels like she's blowing on my ears)?
 
 
Thanks so much. I appreciate your help.
Nick
 
edit: Sorry, I should have mentioned what kinds of music I listen to. I have very eclectic tastes so an all-rounder may be ideal. I'll listen to dubstep or psytrance while coding, but sometimes sit and relax listening to Ludovico Einaudi, some classical guitar, or female vocal trip hop, lounge, and jazz. I may listen to some black metal, Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 3:06 PM Post #2 of 17

Monsterzero

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
8,357
Likes
4,797
Location
Down at Dino's Bar & Grill
Hard to say what the issue might be.....could be that the AKGs arent burned in yet,perhaps not.

Imaging and soundstage can be frustrating as well.I used to own a pair of Beyer T1s driven by a WA2 and the imaging was so exact that i found myself unable to enjoy the music as a cohesive piece.Instead Id be distracted by the guitar,or keyboards,or...whatever. Instead of tapping my foot,Id spend my time dissecting each song.....I ended up getting rid of both the T1 and WA2.

Bass on AKGs isnt great at all,but they shouldnt sound muddy....again it might be the headphones need more breaking-in.

for gaming,it depends upon whether or not it is single player or FPS...closed back headphones will provide you with more bass impact at the cost of less soundstage,which is how one pinpoints enemy locations in FPSs.

I am not familiar with your amp,but have read good things about it,so I doubt the problem lies there.

Electrostats?No.You dont have the correct gear as far as I know.

Planars? I love em....beautiful mids,good speed and transitions,but I dont have any experience with planars in your price range.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 4:30 PM Post #3 of 17

akg fanboy

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
2,098
Likes
364
Maybe you are just new to large soundstage so it sounds weird and unrefined. Give it some BRAIN burn in. That happened to me when I first got my Q701s which didn't sound as detailed as my etymotics at first, but I can agree somewhat with the "muddy" sound because my bass modded Q701s just lack clarity and some effortlessness in the mids compared to my stock Q701s. And the k712 using the same drivers as them should closely resemble my modded Q701s. Give it some time and if you still don't like them, I think the he400i is the best option from your list for rich vocals and better bass response
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 4:36 PM Post #4 of 17

Me x3

Member of the Trade: FiiO Store Argentina
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Posts
4,832
Likes
892
Beyerdynamic T90 will give you the no veil at all feeling you miss in your K712s
(It's a tad more expensive though)
 
I would say HD600 sounds more focused than HD650, these should provide punchy mid bass but not sure if they will fulfill your need for ultimate transparency.
 
Fidelios sound big, open and dynamic, but it's a less refined headphone overall.
Not as good in terms of realistic timbre and neutrality.
 
DT990 has punchy mid-bass, uncoloured and relatively soft midrange and crystal clear treble, but it will rule out your bright recordings.
 
HE-400i is a very good all rounder but not a soundstage/imaging king.

 
There's always a trade off...
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 4:49 PM Post #5 of 17

Muinarc

President of the Lewis Hamilton Fan Club
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
3,594
Likes
516
Location
Narnia
What type of music do you listen to that you want this "pure, rich experience where the music just penetrates you" feeling? I have the k712 and I think they image fine and sound great for rock music. That being said they do leave something to be desired on jazz/classical and any genre that's bass-driven like electronic or rap.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 4:51 PM Post #6 of 17

akg fanboy

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
2,098
Likes
364
What type of music do you listen to that you want this "pure, rich experience where the music just penetrates you" feeling? I have the k712 and I think they image fine and sound great for rock music. That being said they do leave something to be desired on jazz/classical and any genre that's bass-driven like electronic or rap.


What don't you like about the k712s for classical music? :open_mouth:
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 5:02 PM Post #7 of 17

Chetter Hummin

New Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Posts
4
Likes
0
Sorry, I should have mentioned what kinds of music I listen to. I have very eclectic tastes so an all-rounder may be ideal. I'll listen to dubstep or psytrance while coding, but sometimes sit and relax listening to Ludovico Einaudi, some classical guitar, or female vocal trip hop, lounge, and jazz. I may listen to some black metal, Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd. 
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 5:05 PM Post #8 of 17

akg fanboy

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
2,098
Likes
364
Sorry, I should have mentioned what kinds of music I listen to. I have very eclectic tastes so an all-rounder may be ideal. I'll listen to dubstep or psytrance while coding, but sometimes sit and relax listening to Ludovico Einaudi, some classical guitar, or female vocal trip hop, lounge, and jazz. I may listen to some black metal, Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd. 


Yeah, the he400i would win hands down from your music preferences and sound signature description. The newer ones have slightly more soundstage but it still isn't very wide. If your parrot ziks do it for you, then I don't see why not for the he400i.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 5:08 PM Post #9 of 17

Muinarc

President of the Lewis Hamilton Fan Club
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
3,594
Likes
516
Location
Narnia
What don't you like about the k712s for classical music? :open_mouth:

 
It's not that I don't like them, they just aren't perfect just like all other headphones. I have the k812 and I feel they give you the texture from stringed instruments and smooth top-end that the k712s don't.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 5:16 PM Post #10 of 17

akg fanboy

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
2,098
Likes
364
It's not that I don't like them, they just aren't perfect just like all other headphones. I have the k812 and I feel they give you the texture from stringed instruments and smooth top-end that the k712s don't.

That tempts me... I haven't seen anyone compare the k812 vs the k712. How do the mids compare on them? The k812 is the only one from the German TOTL trio I don't have... And I'm an akg fanboy (plays sad violin)
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 5:20 PM Post #11 of 17

Me x3

Member of the Trade: FiiO Store Argentina
Joined
Nov 22, 2012
Posts
4,832
Likes
892
That tempts me... I haven't seen anyone compare the k812 vs the k712. How do the mids compare on them? The k812 is the only one from the German TOTL trio I don't have... And I'm an akg fanboy (plays sad violin)


K812 can't be part of a German trio
; )
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 6:27 PM Post #12 of 17

buke9

Headphoneus Supremus
Help and Recommendation Contributor
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Posts
8,886
Likes
1,669
Location
Kentucky
I have not heard the 400i's yet but do have the 400S's and 400's and if they are anywhere close you would do well with them.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 7:05 PM Post #13 of 17

Monsterzero

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
8,357
Likes
4,797
Location
Down at Dino's Bar & Grill
  Sorry, I should have mentioned what kinds of music I listen to. I have very eclectic tastes so an all-rounder may be ideal. I'll listen to dubstep or psytrance while coding, but sometimes sit and relax listening to Ludovico Einaudi, some classical guitar, or female vocal trip hop, lounge, and jazz. I may listen to some black metal, Rolling Stones or Pink Floyd. 


I listen to most of these genres,esp. classic rock,trance and metal(not so much black,unless you count Opeth) and my HE-500s rock them all beautifully.

How the various 400s compare to the 500s IDK,havent heard any of them.
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 7:14 PM Post #14 of 17

Chetter Hummin

New Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Posts
4
Likes
0
 
I listen to most of these genres,esp. classic rock,trance and metal(not so much black,unless you count Opeth) and my HE-500s rock them all beautifully.

How the various 400s compare to the 500s IDK,havent heard any of them.

Interesting. I hadn't considered the 500/560s because they were a bit out  of my price range. But considering how much this all is it might be worth it if I'm happy with the result. How do you like them and how do you like the Audeze LCD-2s? One possibility I'm entertaining is that if I don't like any of the headphones in the sub-400 range, I may just return everything, including the 500 dollar Jotenheim and get the Audeze LCD-2, which I could probably run nicely on a much cheaper amp/dac like an Aune, DarkVoice/ODAC, or even the dac/amp built into the LG V20. I'm wondering what you (and others) think about this possibility... Swapping the Jotenheim and AKGs for a set of LCD-2s, and then sort of winging it for a bit with an LG V20, or at least some amp/dac combos in the sub-200 range? 
 
Oct 31, 2016 at 7:20 PM Post #15 of 17

Monsterzero

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Posts
8,357
Likes
4,797
Location
Down at Dino's Bar & Grill
  Interesting. I hadn't considered the 500/560s because they were a bit out  of my price range. But considering how much this all is it might be worth it if I'm happy with the result. How do you like them and how do you like the Audeze LCD-2s? One possibility I'm entertaining is that if I don't like any of the headphones in the sub-400 range, I may just return everything, including the 500 dollar Jotenheim and get the Audeze LCD-2, which I could probably run nicely on a much cheaper amp/dac like an Aune, DarkVoice/ODAC, or even the dac/amp built into the LG V20. I'm wondering what you (and others) think about this possibility... Swapping the Jotenheim and AKGs for a set of LCD-2s, and then sort of winging it for a bit with an LG V20, or at least some amp/dac combos in the sub-200 range? 


Much in this hobby is quite subjective,so YMMV,but.....

I dont think the LCD2s are all that.I prefer everything on my HE-500s over the Audezes,except that the LCDs go down just a bit deeper than the 500s,but the 500s hit harder.

The LCDs are much easier to drive than the 500s though.you need a pretty hefty amp to make those 500s sound good,much more amping than the LCDs need.

I also find the LCDs to be slow and a bit muddy in the 200-250hz range,whereas the 500s are quick and tight.

Im sure there are other who may or may not agree with me but thats how I hear them.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top