I cant hear the difference with tubes. Am i doing it wrong?
Jan 8, 2021 at 1:23 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 25

FullLotus

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Hi, I have a schiit magni heresy amp with a modi 3 DAC. I bought an FX audio tube-03 and tube swapped to GE tubes, because that's what the popular opinion to do with it was. I don't remember if I initially heard no difference, or little difference, but I decided it wasn't an improvement and set it aside. I was using planar M1060c, which i was told don't react great with tubes, so i assumed that was the issue.

I just got a pair of 6xx, which everyone says react real well with tubes, so I was excited to try the tubes out with them, but i still cannot hear a difference...like, at all. I bought an audio switch so I can just switch between tubes, or no tubes, with the push of a button, and I cant tell them both apart. From what I've been repeatedly hearing about the 6xx and that tube buffer, this sounds wrong. Anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

Here is am diagram of how it have it set up
The output from my DAC is split to the inputs of the tube pre, and the switch
The output from the tube pre goes into a different input on the switch
Then i can toggle which set of inputs gets output to the amp from the buttons on the switch
 

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Jan 8, 2021 at 4:19 AM Post #2 of 25
Hi, I have a schiit magni heresy amp with a modi 3 DAC. I bought an FX audio tube-03 and tube swapped to GE tubes, because that's what the popular opinion to do with it was. I don't remember if I initially heard no difference, or little difference, but I decided it wasn't an improvement and set it aside.

Some amps don't necessarily add a lot of tube distortion, and not many people can hear non-placebo differences between a good, very clean amp and one that isn't but not outright crap.*

In your case that's not even a tube headphone amp, it's just a preamp.

*I mean, I have a Cantate.2, and apart from noise and more 2D soundstage, and actually being leaner despite having a tube and full Class A, the Pangea HP101 isn't that bad


I was using planar M1060c, which i was told don't react great with tubes, so i assumed that was the issue.

"Does not react well to tubes" doesn't mean "doesn't show tube distortion, at all." It means exactly the opposite: only tube distortion in the worst way possible.

To be more specific this has more to do with OTL amplifiers. They have very high output impedance, so if you start with a cheap one and put a low impedance headphone on it, you'd get even more distortion due to the drastically lowered damping factor. Their power output is also biased for high impedance loads, and chances are most lower impedance headphones actually need more power since they have lower sensitivity (save for the more recent dynamic driver designs). This is basically like having a car that understeers hard and can't be throttle-steered to point the car in the right direction.

Also that FX Audio is a hybrid amp, not a tube amp. And it's running off a power brick...a real, pure tube amp would have a transformer to run the tubes with more voltage and has preamp tubes and a tube driver stage, not a preamp tube paired with a solid state output stage. And even a hybrid amp would still have a lot of voltage for the preamp tube. (this is why there's a joke about the "Starving Student" amp being more about what the rectifier tubes are getting than what the buyer is spending).


I just got a pair of 6xx, which everyone says react real well with tubes, so I was excited to try the tubes out with them, but i still cannot hear a difference...like, at all. I bought an audio switch so I can just switch between tubes, or no tubes, with the push of a button, and I cant tell them both apart. From what I've been repeatedly hearing about the 6xx and that tube buffer, this sounds wrong. Anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

Cheap tube preamp = probably not a good circuit with brighter-sounding Shuguang preamp tubes.

If you want a relatively affordable tube amp with a lot of tube distortion, maybe try a Little Dot Mk2 on both those headphones. It'd be kind of good on the HD6XX but I wouldn't expect a lot of difference on the M1060, if not make it worse compared to the Magni Heresy, since planars don't tend to show the totally detrimental tube distortion caused by the high output impedance, but you'd have a lot less current off that amp.


Here is am diagram of how it have it set up
The output from my DAC is split to the inputs of the tube pre, and the switch
The output from the tube pre goes into a different input on the switch
Then i can toggle which set of inputs gets output to the amp from the buttons on the switch

Your main problem with this set up is you now have two preamp circuits in the same chain.

So even if you run the signal through a tube preamp, which is essentially just a tube buffer like one of those Musical Fidelity gadgets, you're still gonna run that signal through the Magni's preamp stage again anyway.

If the tube preamp was designed specifically to have a very subtle effect ie just round out sharp edges than a badly designed one that makes the music sound like the singer and everything else has sinusitis, then you only have a very subtle effect that is less preserved than merely accounting for the amp stage distortion pattern since the Magni's preamp is still in that chain.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 11:36 AM Post #3 of 25
Hi, I have a Schiit magni heresy amp with a Modi 3 DAC. I bought an FX audio tube-03 and tube swapped to GE tubes, because that's what the popular opinion to do with it was. I don't remember if I initially heard no difference, or little difference, but I decided it wasn't an improvement and set it aside. I was using planar M1060c, which i was told don't react great with tubes, so i assumed that was the issue.
I just got a pair of 6xx, which everyone says react real well with tubes, so I was excited to try the tubes out with them, but i still cannot hear a difference...like, at all. I bought an audio switch so I can just switch between tubes, or no tubes, with the push of a button, and I cant tell them both apart. From what I've been repeatedly hearing about the 6xx and that tube buffer, this sounds wrong. Anyone have any ideas what I might be doing wrong?
Here is am diagram of how it have it set up. The output from my DAC is split to the inputs of the tube pre, and the switch
The output from the tube pre goes into a different input on the switch. Then I can toggle which set of inputs gets output to the amp from the buttons on the switch
Suggest returning the FX Audio Tube-03.
Tube are great for voltage, but not great for current.
Low Ohm headphones (M1060C) would be designed to use less voltage, but require more current.
Your solid state headphone amplifier (Hersey) would be better for driving the M1060C and is easily just as good for driving the HD6XX (over the FX Audio).
 
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Jan 8, 2021 at 11:39 AM Post #4 of 25
i suggest looking into an actaul otl tube to drive the 6xx. that fx is just a premap. These don't have the same effect when you get that tube sound through high impedance of the 6xx.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 4:30 PM Post #6 of 25
Thanks a lot for going over this with me. This was highly informative, and way less dickish than the response below you. I've heard about the little dot, and seen a lot of people recommending the darkvoice as well. Wanted to test the waters before i dove in...you know, because - money.

With the 6XX, if the tube sound is what you're after, it's hard to beat a bottlehead crack for the money. It's a great gateway amp and they're usually not hard to find used.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 6:15 PM Post #8 of 25
and if you don't want to build one or have the knowledge, schiit vahalla 2 or a darkvoice 336 imo.
yeah ive been eyeing the darkvoice for a while, but i also want to upgrade to a balanced system with some better equipment (was thinking magnius/modius) and it always comes down to how i currently want to allocate my toy funds... there are some really good headphones around 500 bucks that id like to purchase...
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 6:17 PM Post #9 of 25
yeah ive been eyeing the darkvoice for a while, but i also want to upgrade to a balanced system with some better equipment (was thinking magnius/modius) and it always comes down to how i currently want to allocate my toy funds... there are some really good headphones around 500 bucks that id like to purchase...
whats the purpose for upgrading to balance? to future proof?
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 6:32 PM Post #11 of 25
yeah, and i just want a little better gear in general
Yeah that makes sense. I am still holding on to 1/4 since its been solid thus far. I don't have a reason to upgrade to balanced for anything I have yet. Everything is working fine and esp with the glite mk2 class a amp.

that magni/modi setup should be awesome and know it will last a future proof.

I actually ordered a darkvoice 336 earlier today to play with with my 6xx.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 6:53 PM Post #12 of 25
Yeah that makes sense. I am still holding on to 1/4 since its been solid thus far. I don't have a reason to upgrade to balanced for anything I have yet. Everything is working fine and esp with the glite mk2 class a amp.

that magni/modi setup should be awesome and know it will last a future proof.

I actually ordered a darkvoice 336 earlier today to play with with my 6xx.
I started really low budget, both in headphones and gear, and im slowly getting into more expensive equipment. I like to tinker with/mod things, so I think a tube amp would be a good purchase because I know i would enjoy tube rolling.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 7:18 PM Post #13 of 25
I started really low budget, both in headphones and gear, and im slowly getting into more expensive equipment. I like to tinker with/mod things, so I think a tube amp would be a good purchase because I know i would enjoy tube rolling.

IMO you’ve got to spend a good chunk of change to get something “better” than the 6xx. It’s an incredible value for the price. The modhouse Aragon’s are a fun different flavor, but I wouldn’t say better. The DT1990 are another flavor, but again it’s hard to say that they’re better. It wasn’t until I got over that $1000 hump that things started sounding “better” to me. It’s all about personal tastes and that’s what makes it a fun journey.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 7:21 PM Post #14 of 25
The difference in sound between tubes and solid state is immensely overblown here, and in the audiophile world in general. It's a huge point of frustration for me, as it sets up unreasonable expectations for people like yourself who want to try out tubes.

I've owned just two tube amps in my life, the Little Dot I+ (which is actually a hybrid) and Woo Audio WA2 (Proper OTL), and between those two amps represents the biggest difference I've heard in any two amps. I would argue that if you're going to hear a difference between tubes and solid state, you're going to hear it in the entry level amps. The Little Dot seemed to have some sloppy engineering in its sound, as the distortion was extremely high in the mid range, so much so that it brought the entire mid range up as if EQ'd. The WA2, by contrast, sounds completely flat. There's no "warmth", no smoothed frequencies, no added anything. If you were to measure the frequency response on a graph, I have no doubt it would show up flat; and I think that would be the case for any reasonably made tube amp put out in the last couple decades. The only thing extra I get out of the WA2 is a little extra grain in the treble and bass. If not for that grain, I would just assume the amp is solid state.

I've tried the amp with many different headphones, and never was I able to get a headphone to sound any different versus solid state, as long as it had the power to drive them. My more demanding planar magnetics simply couldn't pull enough power from the amp to sound good at higher volumes, but that's the only difference I ever heard. Even the Sennheiser HD800, a headphone people swear loves tubes, sounded no different whatsoever.

As much as I love my WA2, I would never recommend someone go down the rabbit hole of vacuum tubes. With my Little Dot I+ I even did tube rolling and OP amp swapping, and still I couldn't eke out any difference in sound. The only reason I'd recommend someone get a tube amp over (or alongside) solid state is if they like the aesthetic of it.
 
Jan 8, 2021 at 7:38 PM Post #15 of 25
IMO you’ve got to spend a good chunk of change to get something “better” than the 6xx. It’s an incredible value for the price. The modhouse Aragon’s are a fun different flavor, but I wouldn’t say better. The DT1990 are another flavor, but again it’s hard to say that they’re better. It wasn’t until I got over that $1000 hump that things started sounding “better” to me. It’s all about personal tastes and that’s what makes it a fun journey.
So part of the reason that I made this post was because I was a bit underwhelmed by my 6xx. I have only had them a couple days though so I have not finalized an opinion yet. Im comparing them to my open modded M1060C, and the 1060 just sounds more... alive? Might just be personal preference, or the 6xx might need more break in. People say the 6xx scale really well with better equipment...maybe my gear just makes them sound boring? I've seem people saying the heresy sounds a little flat/boring...
 
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