[musickid]

My belief is that the long waiting times are because there is nothing else at 4K that performs like the TT2 and that it has nothing to do with the nonsense that dave sounds thin. Most TT2 soon to be owners would take a dave instead if such an amazing offer arose.

Andrew for hugo2 to be roon certified or identified just means roon has stored some software tweaks which they believe optimises the sound of hugo2 from within roon. But as i understand true roon readiness means those tweaks are built into the hardware by the manufacturer to extract all that roon has to offer.

 

[Triode User]

My belief is that the long waiting times are because there is nothing else at 4K that performs like the TT2 and that it has nothing to do with the nonsense that dave sounds thin. Most TT2 soon to be owners would take a Dave instead if such an amazing offer arose.

Indeed there is a nearly new TT2 for sale in the UK where the owner says he prefers his Dave and so is keeping that.

 

[ZappaMan]

My belief is that the long waiting times are because there is nothing else at 4K that performs like the TT2 and that it has nothing to do with the nonsense that dave sounds thin. Most TT2 soon to be owners would take a dave instead if such an amazing offer arose.

Andrew for hugo2 to be roon certified or identified just means roon has stored some software tweaks which they believe optimises the sound of hugo2 from within roon. But as i understand true roon readiness means those tweaks are built into the hardware by the manufacturer to extract all that roon has to offer.

Thanks brother! I’m just saying what, counterintuitively, a numbers of people have reported and something that has a clear contrast with tt2. You do hear reviewers say many good things about Dave, but if they had a criticism, then it would be the thinness.
You can see how animated rob is in the darko video, how John has to nudge him to turn it down a bit.
Tt2 is the next evolution in dac design. A multifunctional masterpiece, that sacrifices a little transparency to Dave, but that then regains it’s footing with addition of an mscaler.
Tt2 could well be the best dac at 8k never mind 4, especially if you needed to previously add an amp, which was reducing transparency, to power your headphones or speaker setup.
That is not nonsense brother, that is a reality for some.

 

[musickid]

I want to agree but i just can't my friend. Have you listened to dave in quiet uninterrupted surroundings? Solo dave? i had the chance some time back at Sonority Design W.Midlands. Listening to a slavonic dance by Dvorak (and i'm not a classical fetishish even though i played violin for 10 years) i can honestly say i was transported into a vortex where the 4 minutes vanished. (I was there for the whole afternoon). I have never been so gripped in all my life and i've auditioned countless audio gear over the last 3 years.

It is the best dac at any price and the owner told me it was the best dac he had ever heard. 20 element pulse array and incredible noise shaper. My summit is mDave but for now mH2 is great. I can realistically afford TT2. I think just focusing on transparency and discounting everything else is not that accurate. How can a 4K Dac=8.5K Dac?Put to one side all other factors. At 4K there is no competition for TT2 IMHO.

 

[Deftone]

Someone could genuinely enjoy the sound of the TT2 more and thus being better than the Dave plus amplifier.

 

[musickid]

Everyone is free to like whatever pleases them the most. Otherwise we will have to introduce little Mr Dictator headfi 2019.

 

[Triode User]

Thanks brother! I’m just saying what, counterintuitively, a numbers of people have reported and something that has a clear contrast with tt2. You do hear reviewers say many good things about Dave, but if they had a criticism, then it would be the thinness.
You can see how animated rob is in the darko video, how John has to nudge him to turn it down a bit.
Tt2 is the next evolution in dac design. A multifunctional masterpiece, that sacrifices a little transparency to Dave, but that then regains it’s footing with addition of an mscaler.
Tt2 could well be the best dac at 8k never mind 4, especially if you needed to previously add an amp, which was reducing transparency, to power your headphones or speaker setup.
That is not nonsense brother, that is a reality for some.

Sorry but I have owned Dave since it came out and I have owned a TT2 so I have been able to extensively compare them side by side. The TT2 is very good indeed but as soon as it is compared side by side with Dave there is an ‘oh my goodness’ moment when you notice the gap between them. You say TT2 “sacrifices a little transparency to Dave” but are you saying this having heard both or is it your wishful thinking? In reality there is a huge improvement in transparency with Dave. This is not doing down TT2 but is rather testament to the superb design of Dave which is still very much the best that there is.

I have also compared TT2 without an external amp compared to Dave with an external amp (admittedly a good one) and again Dave’s transparency won but this time supported by 100w of power behind it.

and the idea that Dave sounds ‘thin’ is poppycock. Again, is this you having personally compared Dave to anything else?

My mild rant is not a Dave owner feeling threatened by the new comer on the block. I bought TT2 to see if it could replace Dave and allow me to run with a cheaper dac. It was the TT2 which got sold.

This might seem as if I am denigrating the TT2 but far from it and I can unhesitatingly recommend it as a very very fine dac indeed. It just happens that Dave is even better.

 

[x RELIC x]

and the idea that Dave sounds ‘thin’ is poppycock.

Agreed.

 

[ZappaMan]

Sorry but I have owned Dave since it came out and I have owned a TT2 so I have been able to extensively compare them side by side. The TT2 is very good indeed but as soon as it is compared side by side with Dave there is an ‘oh my goodness’ moment when you notice the gap between them. You say TT2 “sacrifices a little transparency to Dave” but are you saying this having heard both or is it your wishful thinking? In reality there is a huge improvement in transparency with Dave. This is not doing down TT2 but is rather testament to the superb design of Dave which is still very much the best that there is.

I have also compared TT2 without an external amp compared to Dave with an external amp (admittedly a good one) and again Dave’s transparency won but this time supported by 100w of power behind it.

and the idea that Dave sounds ‘thin’ is poppycock. Again, is this you having personally compared Dave to anything else?

My mild rant is not a Dave owner feeling threatened by the new comer on the block. I bought TT2 to see if it could replace Dave and allow me to run with a cheaper dac. It was the TT2 which got sold.

This might seem as if I am denigrating the TT2 but far from it and I can unhesitatingly recommend it as a very very fine dac indeed. It just happens that Dave is even better.

Cool, I totally appreciate your point of view, and I have heard the various combinations side by side at a dealer. But was it darko in his Dave review who mentions thinness, but he wasn’t th first and to be honest, I’m not sure how much you can trust someone who has the opportunity to collect advertising revenue from chord.
However, I really do believe the prototype dx amp technology, fixes a problem that we didn’t appreciate before. Let’s not say that Dave is thin, but that tt2 has a fat full sound, by virtue of its unique power/amp stage.
Romaz for example, has downgraded to tt2. I think I he had said (sorry if misquote) at this level, what separates the fine margins between great devices is the power supply/system.
Anyhow, I also want to make the point, in an objective way, that as a member of the trade, you have a vested interest in propping up ‘summmit hifi’.
Say, hypothetically, you charge £1200 for two 1 metre cables. That is say 1/8 roughly of the unit cost. If people choose the cheaper device then now your cables are 1/4, which feels like a very high percentage of the cost of the unit itself.
I’m not saying these motivations colour your perception, but that as members of the forum, sometimes you have to query what motivates people’s point of view (in general).
I hope these comments do not upset you in any way and you appreciate my intentions.

 

[Triode User]

I hope these comments do not upset you in any way and you appreciate my intentions.

Well actually your comments that I might be even unintentionally commercially motivated to promote the more expensive Dave in order to sell cables did upset me. I am foremost a hifi enthusiast and only a manufacturer by accident on my journey to getting the best sound quality in my system. Maybe I’m just thin skinned and over emotional so I will give you the benefit of the doubt about your intentions.

 

[GreenBow]

Cool, I totally appreciate your point of view, and I have heard the various combinations side by side at a dealer. But was it darko in his Dave review who mentions thinness, but he wasn’t th first and to be honest, I’m not sure how much you can trust someone who has the opportunity to collect advertising revenue from chord.
However, I really do believe the prototype dx amp technology, fixes a problem that we didn’t appreciate before. Let’s not say that Dave is thin, but that tt2 has a fat full sound, by virtue of its unique power/amp stage.
Romaz for example, has downgraded to tt2. I think I he had said (sorry if misquote) at this level, what separates the fine margins between great devices is the power supply/system.
Anyhow, I also want to make the point, in an objective way, that as a member of the trade, you have a vested interest in propping up ‘summmit hifi’.
Say, hypothetically, you charge £1200 for two 1 metre cables. That is say 1/8 roughly of the unit cost. If people choose the cheaper device then now your cables are 1/4, which feels like a very high percentage of the cost of the unit itself.
I’m not saying these motivations colour your perception, but that as members of the forum, sometimes you have to query what motivates people’s point of view (in general).
I hope these comments do not upset you in any way and you appreciate my intentions.

I would not take much from Darko. I watched only one review of his on YouTube. It was enough to see he was an unpleasant individual.

 

[ZappaMan]

Well actually your comments that I might be even unintentionally commercially motivated to promote the more expensive Dave in order to sell cables did upset me. I am foremost a hifi enthusiast and only a manufacturer by accident on my journey to getting the best sound quality in my system. Maybe I’m just thin skinned and over emotional so I will give you the benefit of the doubt about your intentions.

I’m sorry, life’s too short for anyone to feel upset, hopefully someone will place an order soon for a few metres and you’ll be able to renovate the conservatory
Just kidding, and I exclude you from this, but I am aware of the shenanigans that members of the trade can get up too. Ultimately, it’s free advertising, and I’m sure they feel it’s sensible to get their message across, whatever they may be.
But also, I actually feel sorry for other honest members also who have no idea that they are being manipulated, in one way or another, and encouraged to make ever more expensive purchases.
Ps I’m in a cynical mood.

 

[GreenBow]

I think other DACS sounding a bit lighter than TT2 to an extent is understandable. The TT2 supercaps are the reason behind TT2 weight. (Vis a vis, Hugo / Hugo TT.)

However for me, there is more to this. To me the Hugo 2 sounds more involving and warmer than the Mojo. There's just more detail in mix.

To explain further, if this still all links up. Before I bought a Mojo, I had the Meridian Explorer for while, for gaming and listening to music. When I got the Mojo, I thought it sounded thinner at first, and even now, by comparison the ME may sound thicker. It doesn't mean that the Mojo, (or Hugo 2) are thinner though. It just means that the ME has a smaller soundstage, in both depth and height. Plus the Meridian Explorer has some upper bass EQ in, I think to make it sound warmer.

If you recall, Rob Watts said way back, that his DACs focus the sound better than other DACs. Like putting on a pair of glasses. (Are we all agreed!) Well then, other DACs are going to sound thicker, aren't they. Chord DACs give sound depth and differing detail as we observe the sound depth. I know thicker sounding also means more slam, but slam comes form bass tweaking as far as I know. (Within DACs with no super-caps, that must be the case.) Whereas Chord DACs are flat.

The Meridian Explorer does sound thicker though, due to a confined soundstage. It's undeniable when I compare. After time, the Mojo sounded just as warm, and smoother because of clearer details, compared to the Meridian Explorer. (Better in every way of course.)

I suppose in reality, to criticise a Chord DAC for sounding thin, is criticising any other DAC without super-caps. Unless any other DAC does the upper bass boost for warmth, and has a smaller less focused soundstage.

Am I talking rubbish. Maybe, but I don't think so.

 

[seedubchris]

I would look more at the “WTA” filters for the thickness and slam, aka “transient response”. This is where the real magic seems to occur (among a myriad of other factors I’m sure Rob would remind me). Rob also speaks of the lack of reliance his DACS have on even order noise shaping which tricks our ears into perceiving more bass/slam/loudness. Many other dac designers freely “tune” the dac response to taste. Rob’s designs are free of these kind of aids and therefore have to carry the day on pure transient reconstruction (to a resolution of 16 bits) and laser flat frequency response which isn’t an easy thing to do apparently . Sure there are plenty of bassier sounding DACS out there and that’s what musical preference and this hobby is all about but for those on a quest for the most accurate and critical reference systems available Chord’s delicate balance of sheer number crunching bleeding edge Tec and artful musicality puts them into very rarefied air with DACS costing many times more.

 

[STR-1]

Romaz for example, has downgraded to tt2.

I took from romaz’s recent post on Audiophile Style that he is still using the DAVE in his big listening room. That it is in his home office that he is using the TT2/M Scaler combo for near-field listening.