Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Feb 22, 2022 at 7:39 AM Post #14,956 of 18,276
When using Roon feeding M Scaler, should I have "Enable MQA Core Decoder" on or off? Is the idea supposed to be to send the M Scaler 44.1 and let it upscale to max? or is it ok to send the first MQA unfold in ROON into the M Scaler and then it upsamples accordingly?
I have tested this extensively because I too am stuck with Tidal because I live in Canada.
Basically for different tracks, Roon will provide
1) 16-bit 44kHz lossless FLAC and 16/24-bit 44kHz MQA (which can decode up to 176kHz)
2) 16-bit 44kHz lossless FLAC and 16/24-bit 48kHz MQA (which can decode up to 192kHz)
3) no 16-bit 44kHz lossless FLAC and just the 16/24-bit 44kHz MQA
As @alxw0w said, basically if you can see in Roon the 16-bit 44kHz lossless version, you should always choose that.
But sometimes the non-MQA version is simply not available. In that scenario, after extensive listening tests, I have found that you should turn "Enable MQA Core Decoder" off as I find that just letting M-Scaler upsample the 44kHz MQA to 705.6kHz sounds better than unfolding the MQA to 88/176kHz and then letting M-Scaler to upsample to 705.6kHz.

Basically, I find that the transient response to be more accurate with the lossless 16-bit 44kHz version. Whenever I compare the MQA version of the track to the non-MQA version, I find that the notes from the same instrument can sometimes have shifting transients. And if you enable MQA core decoder, the transients also become softer for some notes but not others, making the sound even worse. But sometimes, Tidal just doesn't give you a non-MQA version. In fact, I'm still debating whether to downgrade my subscription from $20/month to $10/month since I would never decode the MQA version anyway. However, I worry that if I change my account, the track info on whether the original file is MQA or not would disappear from Roon. Not sure. Also I just want to support the artists. For now.
 
Feb 22, 2022 at 8:40 AM Post #14,957 of 18,276
I have tested this extensively because I too am stuck with Tidal because I live in Canada.
Basically for different tracks, Roon will provide
1) 16-bit 44kHz lossless FLAC and 16/24-bit 44kHz MQA (which can decode up to 176kHz)
2) 16-bit 44kHz lossless FLAC and 16/24-bit 48kHz MQA (which can decode up to 192kHz)
3) no 16-bit 44kHz lossless FLAC and just the 16/24-bit 44kHz MQA
As @alxw0w said, basically if you can see in Roon the 16-bit 44kHz lossless version, you should always choose that.
But sometimes the non-MQA version is simply not available. In that scenario, after extensive listening tests, I have found that you should turn "Enable MQA Core Decoder" off as I find that just letting M-Scaler upsample the 44kHz MQA to 705.6kHz sounds better than unfolding the MQA to 88/176kHz and then letting M-Scaler to upsample to 705.6kHz.

Basically, I find that the transient response to be more accurate with the lossless 16-bit 44kHz version. Whenever I compare the MQA version of the track to the non-MQA version, I find that the notes from the same instrument can sometimes have shifting transients. And if you enable MQA core decoder, the transients also become softer for some notes but not others, making the sound even worse. But sometimes, Tidal just doesn't give you a non-MQA version. In fact, I'm still debating whether to downgrade my subscription from $20/month to $10/month since I would never decode the MQA version anyway. However, I worry that if I change my account, the track info on whether the original file is MQA or not would disappear from Roon. Not sure. Also I just want to support the artists. For now.
I downgraded and I can still see all the same info. Often, (and annoyingly) I am offered MQA files still. I’ve been slowly changing my library versions from Tidal to Qobuz for this reason.
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 12:48 PM Post #14,958 of 18,276
I figure this request for the Choral level Scaler is too late in the game but perhaps it would be clever to have an integrated docking station where one could insert a 2go to make it an optional streamer. Just a (fingers crossed) thought.
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 1:25 PM Post #14,959 of 18,276
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 2:26 PM Post #14,960 of 18,276
I figure this request for the Choral level Scaler is too late in the game but perhaps it would be clever to have an integrated docking station where one could insert a 2go to make it an optional streamer. Just a (fingers crossed) thought.
What would be your preferred music server of choice?
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 2:34 PM Post #14,961 of 18,276
What would be your preferred music server of choice?
I use Roon but certainly making this idea of an optional expansion slot not only allows Chord to sell more 2go devices, it give those who have no interest in paying for/using a combo scaling streamer combo which could be a natural progression since Blu is an upscaling transport.
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 2:40 PM Post #14,963 of 18,276
does chord plan to release a new m scaler?
Likely not anytime soon, but there is a Choral range of MScaler in the works with potentially more taps and an improved filter/algorithm. It will be priced in Choral range, so you're probably looking at a price similar to the DAVE, if I were to guess. Hopefully it will have all those RF issues worked out so it doesn't need super expensive BNC cables on top of it.
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 2:48 PM Post #14,964 of 18,276
Likely not anytime soon, but there is a Choral range of MScaler in the works with potentially more taps and an improved filter/algorithm. It will be priced in Choral range, so you're probably looking at a price similar to the DAVE, if I were to guess. Hopefully it will have all those RF issues worked out so it doesn't need super expensive BNC cables on top of it.
does chord plan to release a new m scaler?
yes

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/page-208#post-16811693
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 2:56 PM Post #14,965 of 18,276
I use Roon but certainly making this idea of an optional expansion slot not only allows Chord to sell more 2go devices, it give those who have no interest in paying for/using a combo scaling streamer combo which could be a natural progression since Blu is an upscaling transport.
@genefruit, I’m all in on using Roon as my music server. Therefore I have a Roon Nucleus. Seamlessly easy and sounds great in my system.
 
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Feb 23, 2022 at 3:01 PM Post #14,966 of 18,276
@genefruit, I’m all in on using Roon as my music server. Therefore I have a Roon Nucleus. Seamlessly easy and sounds great great in my system.
The possibility of removing "AudioQuest Diamond USB cable > Audiowise SRC.DX > single WAVE Storm BNC > Chord Hugo M Scaler " from your chain and replacing with a choral scaler/streamer that wouldn't need these might be enticing. Likely just dreaming on my part but perhaps Chord is considering it already. I would think it help sales of 2go, as previously mentioned, plus provide additional reason to maintain and update the related software.
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 3:58 PM Post #14,967 of 18,276
The possibility of removing "AudioQuest Diamond USB cable > Audiowise SRC.DX > single WAVE Storm BNC > Chord Hugo M Scaler " from your chain and replacing with a choral scaler/streamer that wouldn't need these might be enticing. Likely just dreaming on my part but perhaps Chord is considering it already. I would think it help sales of 2go, as previously mentioned, plus provide additional reason to maintain and update the related software.
@genefruit, I’ve been looking at what might be the weak links in my listening chain. And what I’ve come up with is that my USB cable could be improved if I chose to entertain the idea of using something like a Sablon Evo USB. Plus there’s also the idea of adding an Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker, but I’m loathe to adding another powered unit into my dedicated hp system.
 
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Feb 23, 2022 at 4:45 PM Post #14,968 of 18,276
The possibility of removing "AudioQuest Diamond USB cable > Audiowise SRC.DX > single WAVE Storm BNC > Chord Hugo M Scaler " from your chain and replacing with a choral scaler/streamer that wouldn't need these might be enticing. Likely just dreaming on my part but perhaps Chord is considering it already. I would think it help sales of 2go, as previously mentioned, plus provide additional reason to maintain and update the related software.
@genefruit while it sounds great in theory and would be a great overall solution, looking at how cumbersome is Poly and its entire ecosystem, adding all of problems of 2go early adopters and Rob Watts priorities are limited to SQ only (ignoring usability and other concerns critical IMHO for a streamer) honestly I doubt Chord can deliver a streamer of quality level matching their top dacs :frowning2:

As a M Scaler owner I also must add that I think that when a product requires cables in the same price level of the device itself at this price point only shows that the original design is flawed.

Hands up who would like to pay 5k-10k or more for a streamer controlled via GoFiguer app.
 
Feb 23, 2022 at 4:52 PM Post #14,969 of 18,276
Hands up who would like to pay 5k-10k or more for a streamer controlled via GoFiguer app.
That would be the beauty of utilizing the 2go as a module rather it being integrated. Choice. Would I buy a Choral level scaler that provided me the option to insert a 2go to make it a streamer scaler? Probably so but I'm likely to buy the Cscaler either way. To give me the option of adding the 2go would make it more competitive in the one/fewer box marketplace.
 

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