Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Aug 18, 2019 at 8:56 AM Post #7,862 of 18,289
Would absolutely love to get my hands on some Wave’s! However, after buying the Meze Empyreans, Mscaler, TT2 and the Innuos Zenith MK3 all in the past 3 weeks i’m officially tapped out. Ideally, I could find the BNC’s and USB for under 1k since I’m stacking and only need .05 lengths.
I didn’t know there was a Stone version of the Wave, i’ll Check it out along with the DH’s.

Thanks all, really appreciate the input
You got f’d with the innuos. Watch vid bud.
 
Aug 18, 2019 at 9:16 AM Post #7,863 of 18,289
A comparison vs. (and in combination with) WAVE STREAM / STORM BNC cables would be highly interesting.
I recently got a pair of wave stream cables, they offer a very large gain in sq. it seems obvious afterwards that rf ( in all dacs not just chords ) is in a way, robbing us from getting truly intimate with the music. The often talked of veil.
The ability to empathise with the singer (lol),to try to find the human connection with the subtleties of how a lyric is said/sang, this is that extra last mile that you get whenever the rf is mitigated.
We have this amazing equipment, but it just needs that little extra push to make it even better, but also to where it should/deserves to be.
 
Aug 18, 2019 at 10:36 AM Post #7,864 of 18,289
I recently got a pair of wave stream cables, they offer a very large gain in sq. it seems obvious afterwards that rf ( in all dacs not just chords ) is in a way, robbing us from getting truly intimate with the music. The often talked of veil.
The ability to empathise with the singer (lol),to try to find the human connection with the subtleties of how a lyric is said/sang, this is that extra last mile that you get whenever the rf is mitigated.
We have this amazing equipment, but it just needs that little extra push to make it even better, but also to where it should/deserves to be.
I will add that it's RF in all its forms. Once the signal path is optically galvanically isolated and you can still hear SQ changes with upstream digital tweaks ...well you can proffer that it's a violation of physics or admit 'something' is affecting a DAC across free air and a meter distant.
That something is radiated RF emissions from HMS and your digital chain. I was increduous at first but now I know it's real.

The chord DACs are so good, so sensitive... and so close to end-game with attention to RF.

First, optically isolate your signal from HMS/source to DAC. Then put your digital and analog halves each on a battery ( at least one side). This way RF has no conducted path.
Finally physically move your digital bits away from your DAC.
I did the tests and it's all real ...less measured RF at the DAC equals better transparency. Optical signal, battery power and 3-5meter separation lowers RF to near ambient zero.
 
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Aug 18, 2019 at 11:34 AM Post #7,865 of 18,289
You got f’d with the innuos. Watch vid bud.


You think I plunked down that much cash without watching his debunk? I also read dozens of reviews and testimonials of people who’s opinion I respect as to the exceptional sound quality of the Zenith.

Further, the same point he’s making is analogous to expensive cables, where they may constitute 100 in raw materials, but it’s the artistry in their construction that we are paying for.

That being said, the Zenith is the only component that is fully expendable, if I’m not wow’d by it’s performance, it’s gone.

Besides, One is only properly “F’d” if they can’t sell it for more than it was acquired for.
 
Aug 18, 2019 at 4:55 PM Post #7,866 of 18,289
You think I plunked down that much cash without watching his debunk? I also read dozens of reviews and testimonials of people who’s opinion I respect as to the exceptional sound quality of the Zenith.

Further, the same point he’s making is analogous to expensive cables, where they may constitute 100 in raw materials, but it’s the artistry in their construction that we are paying for.

That being said, the Zenith is the only component that is fully expendable, if I’m not wow’d by it’s performance, it’s gone.

Besides, One is only properly “F’d” if they can’t sell it for more than it was acquired for.
i may get
him to build me a unit
 
Aug 18, 2019 at 5:00 PM Post #7,867 of 18,289
Need some feedback
re
cans
for mscaler

currently have 4Z

looking at Meze Empyrean and HiFi Man Susvara

thoughts on best match and clear winner

should have lcd 24 this week

keep in mind i can get susvara for 3500
 
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Aug 18, 2019 at 5:53 PM Post #7,868 of 18,289
Your best cans are your best cans
 
Aug 19, 2019 at 7:00 AM Post #7,871 of 18,289
Aesthetics are crucially important, but there is another much more important reason - if it was the size of Hugo 2 (and it couldn't as the connectors would not fit) the case temperature would be 90 deg C - which the FPGA would cope with, but not anybody touching it! There are always good engineering reasons for why things are the way they are... Another thing I curse the size of the Hugo M scaler is when I am flying - but for short flights I put it in my man bag, together with the battery bank, and after a couple of hours it gets warm but never hot - and the reason for this is heat dissipation using anodized aluminium is too parts - radiative (infra red) and convection (air movement cooling). I have actually measured which is the most important aspect - and it turns out that radiative cooling is as effective as convection cooling, each contributes about 50% to the total for the Hugo M scaler (how do I know this? raw un-anodised aluminium has virtually no radiative cooling, so I measured it with raw aluminium, and the thermal resistance was doubled). Which is why when you seal it in a bag, it still dissipates enough from the infra red losses, so it does not get unacceptably hot. Both losses are surface area dependendent, which give you a minimum size...



I agree absolutely with your comments about "throw any recording at it and get amazing sound". Indeed I was musing on this very point on the flight home from Munich - I can't think of any RBCD that doesn't somehow work musically, in spite of poorer recordings. Is it because sound quality is now elevated to such a level that pretty much all recordings are now listenable? Or is it that digital sampling without 16 bit accuracy for the recovery of transients, is fundamentally flawed? I suspect the latter - simply because when I hear analogue master tapes, in a lot of ways it sounds poor (listen to Beatles master tapes!) but musically it works. The M scaler allows one to recover the sound of the master tape, and more importantly allows the emotional or musical connection to the original recording.

I used to worry when purchasing music - that it would be unplayably bad - that fear has completely gone now, at least from the genres I buy music from. And I can't express how much joy this gives me!
Hey rob... I’m a tech CEO founder and product guy. One story I always tell people is when reporters ask Spielberg why he makes the movies he makes he answers because that’s the movie i’d Like to see.

in fact the only products companies I have created are out of need. It’s the product I want... listening to you here I can tell your heart is in the right place. You make these products for your own listening enjoyment!

right on man!
 
Aug 19, 2019 at 7:10 AM Post #7,872 of 18,289
Hey rob... I’m a tech CEO founder and product guy. One story I always tell people is when reporters ask Spielberg why he makes the movies he makes he answers because that’s the movie i’d Like to see.

in fact the only products companies I have created are out of need. It’s the product I want... listening to you here I can tell your heart is in the right place. You make these products for your own listening enjoyment!

right on man!
Wow, would love to hear more !
 
Aug 19, 2019 at 7:47 AM Post #7,873 of 18,289
For those on a budget amphenol RF BNC are excellent with gold plated connectors and very thin with light weight.

I added 20 5mm per bnc initially, sounds did improved, more relax and natural.

It was tightly fit to the bnc

https://www.amazon.com/Topnisus-Ant...ter/dp/B01E6PLY0O?ref_=bl_dp_s_mw_14402243011

I then added another 15 to each bnc, still evaluating but sound promising.

I was to far away from both wave and optical solution, quite hestiaged to try the free return. 15662152029139046366582781863209.jpg
 
Aug 19, 2019 at 7:52 AM Post #7,874 of 18,289
I've had the M Scaler and TT2 for more than a month now, and they sound astonishing. Even better than what I could hope for.

Well, except for this one issue: I occasionally hear a subtle crack in the right-hand headphone. Maybe one or a couple of times every minute. It's not unlike the cracks on LP rips but more "electric" sounding. I cringe every time I hear it, especially during crystal clear studio recordings. Tested with different headphones, tested by exchanging the sides, with all kinds of sources, units stacked/unstacked, and it keeps coming. I already bought a FURMAN power conditioner but it didn't fix the issue. (Note that I am using a shielded AudioQuest Cinnamon 1.5m USB cable between the computer and M Scaler.)

Yesterday I wanted to find out more about this noise, so I started investigating via the following steps:

1. Going dark. Turned off the wifi router, disconnected all power cables (computer, monitor, everything), expect the ones for HMS & TT2. (This is a room in the basement with very low mobile signal, rather well isolated.) Played music from my phone in Airplane mode, connecting through shielded USB cable. The crack kept coming as if nothing has changed. :frowning2:

2. Remove M Scaler from the chain. This fixed the crack immediately. The sound was free of noise. The TT2 seems to be beautifully isolated. I could not hear any noise, even after reconnecting the dual BNC from the M Scaler. (At the same time music without the M Scaler sounds very different, I don't want to do it. I can see why Rob takes a HMS on his trips.)

3. Move USB cable and BNC cables apart. Connected M Scaler back on but made sure that the BNC cables and the USB cable are as far apart from each other as possible. Finally this seemed to reduce the volume and maybe the frequency of the cracks. (This was already later yesterday so I will continue testing later today).A2C7EFC8-1F79-4DF9-BB5A-D654C0E5F25E.jpeg

Conclusions: either this M Scaler / the BNC stock cables are faulty, or the stock cables are simply not up to the task. Or there is something strange going on in this room, even with other power consumers disconnected. Why isn't anyone else complaining about this?

My next step is ordering WAVE cables from @Triode User and here's hoping they will remove this annoying noise. If not then it's a warranty issue with the M Scaler & cables. :frowning2:

FYI @Mojo ideas & @Rob Watts

P.S. Really looking forward for the new reference Chord DAC (Dave 2?) where the M Scaler is already built in in order to avoid such issues.
 
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Aug 19, 2019 at 8:12 AM Post #7,875 of 18,289
I've had the M Scaler and TT2 for more than a month now, and they sound astonishing. Even better than what I could hope for.

Well, except for this one issue: I occasionally hear a subtle crack in the right-hand headphone. Maybe one or a couple of times every minute. It's not unlike the cracks on LP rips but more "electric" sounding. I cringe every time I hear it, especially during crystal clear studio recordings. Tested with different headphones, tested by exchanging the sides, with all kinds of sources, units stacked/unstacked, and it keeps coming. I already bought a FURMAN power conditioner but it didn't fix the issue. (Note that I am using a shielded AudioQuest Cinnamon 1.5m USB cable between the computer and M Scaler.)

Yesterday I wanted to find out more about this noise, so I started investigating via the following steps:

1. Going dark. Turned off the wifi router, disconnected all power cables (computer, monitor, everything), expect the ones for HMS & TT2. (This is a room in the basement with very low mobile signal, rather well isolated.) Played music from my phone in Airplane mode, connecting through shielded USB cable. The crack kept coming as if nothing has changed. :frowning2:

2. Remove M Scaler from the chain. This fixed the crack immediately. The sound was free of noise. The TT2 seems to be beautifully isolated. I could not hear any noise, even after reconnecting the dual BNC from the M Scaler. (At the same time music without the M Scaler sounds very different, I don't want to do it. I can see why Rob takes a HMS on his trips.)

3. Move USB cable and BNC cables apart. Connected M Scaler back on but made sure that the BNC cables and the USB cable are as far apart from each other as possible. Finally this seemed to reduce the volume and maybe the frequency of the cracks. (This was already later yesterday so I will continue testing later today).

Conclusions: either this M Scaler / the BNC stock cables are faulty, or the stock cables are simply not up to the task. Or there is something strange going on in this room, even with other power consumers disconnected. Why isn't anyone else complaining about this?

My next step is ordering WAVE cables from @Triode User and here's hoping they will remove this annoying noise. If not then it's a warranty issue with the M Scaler & cables. :frowning2:

FYI @Mojo ideas & @Rob Watts

P.S. Really looking forward for the new reference Chord DAC (Dave 2?) where the M Scaler is already built in in order to avoid such issues.

My chief suspect would be something else in the house / apartment where you live. Have you tried switching off the supply to other circuits elsewhere in addition to the room where you have your music?
 

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