Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Apr 23, 2022 at 3:44 PM Post #15,241 of 16,266

Reactcore

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I remember a while back discussing with @Triode User the concept of adapting a cable such as this to create an interconnect similar in principle to opto-dx.
It would have been necessary to cut the 5V wire, to prevent it being an easy route for electrical noise, and to wire it to a battery to power the optical signal converter circuit.

Triode did mention that his enquiries had revealed that the optical converter chips can generate a lot of electrical noise, which would outweigh the benefits of using the optical cable in an audio circuit.
Based on that advice I put this concept on the back-burner.
Maybe very low noise optical converters do exist, but i have not searched for more information.

I want to keep it very simple with a TTL convert only.. there is no switching other then the on/off state of the light.. but i need to lower the voltage on the receiver side..
i measured under 1v on HMS BNC.
It uses standard 850nm 50/125 multimode fibers.

I plan to take power out of Dave and HMS.. no battery

20220423-213456_Drive.jpg
 
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Apr 23, 2022 at 6:06 PM Post #15,243 of 16,266

Karnicopia

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Are you listening to headphones or speakers with it? And were all inputs disconnected?



I was thinking to create a dual optic link using 2 sets of these.. the circuit shouldnt be that difficult.
Then i found ofcourse it was already done..

Im just not willing to blind spend big € to find it wont improve anything..
I am listening to headphones and I don't have any other inputs I stream wirelessly to a PI2AES running off of 2 batteries and then optical into M-scaler with the Opto DX transmitter which both are running off of one battery then that goes optical to the Opto DX receiver and TT2 running off of a different battery to my headphones. I do want to try some efficient speakers but I haven't yet but maybe next year.

I was the same way with not wanting to spend money without knowing if I would hear an improvement and I was kind of worried about the lack of return policy with it but the thing sounds great to me and each stage I have been able to apply electrical isolation it has helped so I think that is why I ended up taking the leap with the Opto DX and I think it was worth it. If you can build a circuit yourself I would give it a shot personally but I guess that is a decision each person has to make but I think there was a palpable difference from isolating them.
 
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Apr 23, 2022 at 8:11 PM Post #15,244 of 16,266

bpcans

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What I do not understand is why not to use bnc cable from streamer (for example antipodes k22) to m scaller without all that pricy cables and adapters. Can someone enlighten me? :wink:
@Cortazar, from my experience the simpler the listening chain the better. But I shouldn’t be one to talk.
 
Apr 24, 2022 at 3:59 AM Post #15,245 of 16,266

Reactcore

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and TT2 running off of a different battery to my headphones.

Hm if your whole system is on batteries free from the net.. and you hear a difference using opto.dx it would indicate RF is generated by HMS on its BNC's ..unless its picked up by the coax acting as antennas..
 
Apr 24, 2022 at 6:44 AM Post #15,247 of 16,266

Karnicopia

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Hm if your whole system is on batteries free from the net.. and you hear a difference using opto.dx it would indicate RF is generated by HMS on its BNC's ..unless its picked up by the coax acting as antennas..

It seems like the m scaler is generating RF and I believe that is the reason that Rob Watts suggested the ferrites that ended up being used for wave cables is the m-Scaler generates RF noise at 2 GHz so Rob even knew the frequency of the noise that is being generated. The batteries isolate everything from the power lines and then the Opto DX isolates the TT2 from the noise that the m-scaler is generating (this is why I have the Opto TX and m scaler on one battery and the RX and TT2 on a separate battery to keep these isolated) and then the idea behind the wave cables seems to be to use ferrites to attenuate the noise.

I guess I'd also just add that it isn't just through cabling the m scaler generates RF in general so I also found improvement from not stacking it with the TT2 and I do have them physically separated a bit with a shelf between them. I guess I'd stress that I didn't have to do a lot here at my old setup I had them on the same table with a headphone stand and about 12" between them.

The Coax acting as antennas for Opto DX and RX sounds like it a thing because Dan mentions this on the Opto DX website I believe that he makes the coax cables as short as possible to try to prevent this from happening so I have to keep the TX module really close to the M scaler and the RX module really close to the TT2 with short coax cables but the optical cables have about 1.5m so I can keep the TT2 and M scaler split up a bit.
 
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Apr 24, 2022 at 12:24 PM Post #15,248 of 16,266

iamdman

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I have been contemplating using battery as a source for my HMS connected to TT2. Honestly I am not sure if I am even having RF issues but I recently purchased a EcoFlow RIVER Pro Portable Power Station for different use but wondering if I can use the DC out from it to power my HMS without any issues? As per the mfr site the spec for DC output is 13.6Vdc, 3A Max per port.

mfr link: https://us.ecoflow.com/products/river-pro-portable-power-station

I really dont want to do any harm to my HMS since I am pretty happy the way it is...but not sure if there is a way to make it even more better!

thanks
 
Apr 24, 2022 at 12:43 PM Post #15,249 of 16,266

stemiki

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I have been contemplating using battery as a source for my HMS connected to TT2. Honestly I am not sure if I am even having RF issues but I recently purchased a EcoFlow RIVER Pro Portable Power Station for different use but wondering if I can use the DC out from it to power my HMS without any issues? As per the mfr site the spec for DC output is 13.6Vdc, 3A Max per port.

mfr link: https://us.ecoflow.com/products/river-pro-portable-power-station

I really dont want to do any harm to my HMS since I am pretty happy the way it is...but not sure if there is a way to make it even more better!

thanks
That is fine, important that it does not exceed 15 volt dc.
 
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Apr 24, 2022 at 2:00 PM Post #15,250 of 16,266

SteveHulk

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I have been contemplating using battery as a source for my HMS connected to TT2. Honestly I am not sure if I am even having RF issues but I recently purchased a EcoFlow RIVER Pro Portable Power Station for different use but wondering if I can use the DC out from it to power my HMS without any issues? As per the mfr site the spec for DC output is 13.6Vdc, 3A Max per port.

mfr link: https://us.ecoflow.com/products/river-pro-portable-power-station

I really dont want to do any harm to my HMS since I am pretty happy the way it is...but not sure if there is a way to make it even more better!

thanks
I purchased an ecoflow delta for much the same reason but I quickly abandoned it when I realised that even when using quite low power on the AC out the damned fan insisted on running regardless. With the open backed cans I'm using the noise was intolerable. The DC out was not an option as my amp requires AC, as indeed does the DAVE.

I implemented my own solution using golf cart batteries and inverters from which I had removed the fans. The chargers have an easy plug disconnect between their outputs and the batteries. When listening only the batteries and the inverters are connected and the whole system is completely isolated from the mains. To recharge I just reconnect the charger plugs.
 
Apr 24, 2022 at 3:11 PM Post #15,251 of 16,266

Reactcore

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It seems like the m scaler is generating RF and I believe that is the reason that Rob Watts suggested the ferrites that ended up being used for wave cables is the m-Scaler generates RF noise at 2 GHz so Rob even knew the frequency of the noise that is being generated. The batteries isolate everything from the power lines and then the Opto DX isolates the TT2 from the noise that the m-scaler is generating (this is why I have the Opto TX and m scaler on one battery and the RX and TT2 on a separate battery to keep these isolated) and then the idea behind the wave cables seems to be to use ferrites to attenuate the noise.

I guess I'd also just add that it isn't just through cabling the m scaler generates RF in general so I also found improvement from not stacking it with the TT2 and I do have them physically separated a bit with a shelf between them. I guess I'd stress that I didn't have to do a lot here at my old setup I had them on the same table with a headphone stand and about 12" between them.

The Coax acting as antennas for Opto DX and RX sounds like it a thing because Dan mentions this on the Opto DX website I believe that he makes the coax cables as short as possible to try to prevent this from happening so I have to keep the TX module really close to the M scaler and the RX module really close to the TT2 with short coax cables but the optical cables have about 1.5m so I can keep the TT2 and M scaler split up a bit.

Good points. I see you did your research.
Its not for nothing HMS is double shielded and one cant see internals through the porthole.

Too bad the BNC's are too close to each other ..otherwise you could try these €1 male-male BNC adapters. It cant get shorter than this.

oks-34051-bnc-m-bnc-m-koppelstuk-75-ohm-hoofd_1.jpg
 
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Apr 24, 2022 at 3:30 PM Post #15,252 of 16,266

iamdman

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I purchased an ecoflow delta for much the same reason but I quickly abandoned it when I realised that even when using quite low power on the AC out the damned fan insisted on running regardless. With the open backed cans I'm using the noise was intolerable. The DC out was not an option as my amp requires AC, as indeed does the DAVE.

I implemented my own solution using golf cart batteries and inverters from which I had removed the fans. The chargers have an easy plug disconnect between their outputs and the batteries. When listening only the batteries and the inverters are connected and the whole system is completely isolated from the mains. To recharge I just reconnect the charger plugs.
Not sure if you have already installed latest firmware for ECO Flow. As per the info here it seems to have reduced the fan noise but I am yet to try as mine is just opened and charging as we speak.
 
Apr 24, 2022 at 4:50 PM Post #15,253 of 16,266

naynay

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Laird HFB159079-100

For those wanting to go the Ferrite core cable route for their M Scaler but do not have the funds or just do not want to pay the high prices for the ones spoken about on this forum I have been testing a number of Ferrite cores over a period of time. You may have seen some of the cables I made for myself that I posted on here and have now settled on Ferrite Cores named Laird HFB159079-100.
These ones are High Frequency in the 2GHz and are sized the same as the high priced ones, they may even be the same.
You can fit 20 per meter cable with the correct number of O-rings if that is the way you want to go. I have put this on here to help the people willing to go the Diy route. dLook for HFB159079-100Untitled.png
 
Apr 25, 2022 at 2:55 PM Post #15,254 of 16,266

bpcans

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For those who use their Chord TT2 with an M Scaler, yes, the WAVE Storm BNC’s are the best interconnects that you can put into your system. But more importantly, creating distance from the HMS from the TT2 to obviate the RFI from the HMS is crucial. Good shielded BNC’s of at least 1 to 2 meters away from the TT2 will give you a great deal of benefit if you don’t want to spring for the WAVE BNC’s. A less expensive solution is to bypass the USB input of the HMS by using an AudioWise SRC.DX USB to DX converter while using at least a 1m coaxial cable into the HMS.
 
Apr 25, 2022 at 9:31 PM Post #15,255 of 16,266

Icenine2

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For those who use their Chord TT2 with an M Scaler, yes, the WAVE Storm BNC’s are the best interconnects that you can put into your system. But more importantly, creating distance from the HMS from the TT2 to obviate the RFI from the HMS is crucial. Good shielded BNC’s of at least 1 to 2 meters away from the TT2 will give you a great deal of benefit if you don’t want to spring for the WAVE BNC’s. A less expensive solution is to bypass the USB input of the HMS by using an AudioWise SRC.DX USB to DX converter while using at least a 1m coaxial cable into the HMS.
I was reading this today at the TT2 thread. I had no clue this was a "thing". I'll try this out tomorrow but the pain is finding the space to separate these two. I just had to laugh at myself doing what I "thought" was everything to make this rig as good as it could get. Jeez.
 

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