[Giogio]

  This will be my first time buying higher end headphones and my first post on this forum.  I like a lot of what i'm reading about the Sennheiser Momentum 2 wireless.  Can someone fill me in on the main differences i will encounter with the on ear vs. over ear?
 
 
thanks.

Welcome you too!
These are the two next headphones I am going to try, together with the new Denon.
I can only tell you what I have read: the Momentum Over Ear have a warmer sound with more mids, the On Ear are a bit more V Shaped (highs and bass are dominant over mids although mids are not lacking).
If nobody else answers you here you can ask in the Momentum Thread.

 

[Giogio]

I am aware of that.. What I wanted to point out is that I actually find the €249 BBP pleasant enough in their uncorrected state whereas the €449 M2 in their uncorrected state definitely disappoint

Ok, I understand now.
Well, tastes are tastes, some people like more the warmer sound of the M2 over the bright highs of the BBP.
I will express my opinion when I try the M2 in two or three weeks, when I hope the Denon will be available and I will make a comparison between Denon, Momentum, BBP, ATH.
The ATH are not ANC, but are the best sounding on my list so it is a must compare.

 

[tholevn]

In term of battery life, how long did the ATH last in your experiences? I looked up the Plantronics and it's sure a good looking headphone to me with a lot of cool features. In the order hand, i can't seem to find any info about the ATH on google thou. I did some research and found that i could get the ATH on ebay for around 280. So now i am down to two cans: the ATH and Plantronics. Which one do you think will work best on my scenario? 

 

[Giogio]

Which one do you think will work best on my scenario? 

they have different sound signatures. You should at first describe the signature you generally like the most.
You could make a list of all what you look in a headphone, in order of priority.
I also need to know if you are going to EQ or not.

The ATH has got no fancy features at all. Zero. "Just" the best overall sound quality and performance in all frequencies.
I had it for too few time to be able to test the battery methodically. But I doubt it lasts more than 12 hours.
So, in battery and functions the Plantronics win.

What made you exclude the Fidelio?

I'm on the bus now, with the AKG.
I really like them a lot. I mean, of course not like I like the ATH or the Fidelio or other bigger headphones, but the sound (and bass) they can produce while being so damn little, and their portability (simply the best portability on the Market in this moment, on a High End level at least), is just impressive...


BTW, it's better if you cut the text which you quote, leaving only the parts you are answering to, in order to avoid long posts which are difficult for mobile reading.
In this case you also posted a double post, so I've flagged the long one to make it delete by a Mod.
Don't panic if you see it disappear.

 

[seall]

Hi Joe. I have read your reviews both on Amazon and here on the Head-Fi thread (great work btw). I know the Plantronics Backbeat Pro headphones are the only ones that support Low Latency APTX. My question is: from your experience, is the difference between LL APTX and APTX really that big? I mean, is the latency noticeable when watching a movie? Thank you!

 

[Giogio]

  Hi Joe. I have read your reviews both on Amazon and here on the Head-Fi thread (great work btw). I know the Plantronics Backbeat Pro headphones are the only ones that support Low Latency APTX. My question is: from your experience, is the difference between LL APTX and APTX really that big? I mean, is the latency noticeable when watching a movie? Thank you!

Hi seall, yes and not.
It is a bit like the wireless range and like the difference between Aptx and SBC.
Among Class 2 devices (official range till 10mt) there are standard ones, excellent ones, and horrible ones (the BeoPlay H8).
Among SBC devices there are cheap ones and ones like the Bose Soundlink On Ear, the AKG K845BT, the Jabra Revo Wireless, which can compete (and even win) with many Aptx headphones.
And although there is a specification for the latency of Aptx (something around the 100ms) and the Aptx Low Latency (40ms or less) and SBC (150ms) different headphones with the same technology perform differently.
And then there is the latency of your system (in case or a PC).
 
So, I have experienced zero delay with some aptx devices and a clear delay with some other ones, but in both groups some headphones could perform better/worse depending on the system performance of the moment.
 
The Plantronics anyway simply never gave me problems.
But to be really 100% that you'll never have problems, you need to pair it with a Low Latency transmitter, like the Avantree Saturn Pro (there are a couple other ones but I like Avantree).
 
Anyway, if you do not like the Plantronics, do not by them just for that.
Maybe we can find something which works for you even without LL Aptx...
 
What were you looking for exactly?

 

[seall]

 
Hi seall, yes and not.
It is a bit like the wireless range and like the difference between Aptx and SBC.
Among Class 2 devices (official range till 10mt) there are standard ones, excellent ones, and horrible ones (the BeoPlay H8).
Among SBC devices there are cheap ones and ones like the Bose Soundlink On Ear, the AKG K845BT, the Jabra Revo Wireless, which can compete (and even win) with many Aptx headphones.
And although there is a specification for the latency of Aptx (something around the 100ms) and the Aptx Low Latency (40ms or less) and SBC (150ms) different headphones with the same technology perform differently.
And then there is the latency of your system (in case or a PC).
 
So, I have experienced zero delay with some aptx devices and a clear delay with some other ones, but in both groups some headphones could perform better/worse depending on the system performance of the moment.
 
The Plantronics anyway simply never gave me problems.
But to be really 100% that you'll never have problems, you need to pair it with a Low Latency transmitter, like the Avantree Saturn Pro (there are a couple other ones but I like Avantree).
 
Anyway, if you do not like the Plantronics, do not by them just for that.
Maybe we can find something which works for you even without LL Aptx...
 
What were you looking for exactly?

I have already bought the Saturn Pro specifically for that.
I'll be using the headphones mainly for gaming and watching movies, so latency is important. I'll be listening to music too, but not that often. So, obviously, audio quality is important, but not as important as latency. NC is not important to me.

 

[n00b2]

  I have already bought the Saturn Pro specifically for that.
I'll be using the headphones mainly for gaming and watching movies, so latency is important. I'll be listening to music too, but not that often. So, obviously, audio quality is important, but not as important as latency. NC is not important to me.

I haven't tried aptx LL much myself but I do know someone who bought a second Avantree Saturn Pro (first one connected to TV) and stuck it to his bluetooth headphones and connected the Saturn Pro in receiver mode to the headphones because he found the latency of normal bluetooth intolerable for online gaming. When I have tried watching movies or youtube videos on PC with normal bluetooth headphones the latency is pretty significant, though I think it normally connects through SBC. There was another poster in the other bluetooth thread though that connected his headphones to an Avantree Priva and found the latency of aptx perfectly fine for movies. If you can't add lip sync delays to your tv (if you have an amp) or you play online games that depend on fast responses like shooters then I would definitely try and get aptx LL in some form as it will definitely be noticeable to others when you game, even if you can't really tell yourself.

 

[Giogio]

I agree with n00b2 about the possibility of buying a second Saturn Pro and set it as receiver and plug your preferred wired headphones in it. You'll have a perfect low latency system, just a little less comfortable than a 100% wireless headphone. But with the advantage that you can use whatever headphone you want (like real gaming ones with surround).
Anyway the bbp should be fine. Nice bass, nice soundstage.
It's OK.
I'm thinking, there are two specific gaming headphones with LL APTX, one Astrogaming, one, i don't remember.
You fun find them on the official APTX website in the LL APTX section.

 

[god-bluff]

I've probably missed it but is the AKG Y45BT mentioned in this thread ? Look compact,stylish & affordable, and sounded pretty decent when I had a listen also very comfy.

 

[Giogio]

I've probably missed it but is the AKG Y45BT mentioned in this thread ? Look compact,stylish & affordable, and sounded pretty decent when I had a listen also very comfy.

define "missed"
Yes, they were mentioned a few posts ago, previous page.
I also list them in the opening post of the thread in the general list and in the best bassy headphones list.
Yes, i like them. They have no chance to compete against the one on the top in my list, but that would also be an unfair comparison given how little they are.
They're my choice for portable use.
I would not buy them as main only headphones though.
But for portability they're on par with the Sennheiser MM400-X, with comparable sound quality, even if with a much different signature (the Senny are colder, a bit more open, the bass is more dry and less strong but more precise. The akg have more mids, probably too much low mids, more low bass although the little drivers cannot render it super well)
It's a bit long ago that I've tested the Bose Soundlink On Ear, so i would not be able to compare them in quality very in-depth, but they're on a similar level. The Bose are overall more balanced anyway.

 

[god-bluff]

define "missed"

Yes, they were mentioned a few posts ago, previous page.
I also list them in the opening post of the thread in the general list and in the best bassy headphones list.
Yes, i like them. They have no chance to compete against the one on the top in my list, but that would also be an unfair comparison given how little they are.
They're my choice for portable use.
I would not buy them as main only headphones though.
But for portability they're on par with the Sennheiser MM400-X, with comparable sound quality, even if with a much different signature (the Senny are colder, a bit more open, the bass is more dry and less strong but more precise. The akg have more mids, probably too much low mids, more low bass although the little drivers cannot render it super well)
It's a bit long ago that I've tested the Bose Soundlink On Ear, so i would not be able to compare them in quality very in-depth, but they're on a similar level. The Bose are overall more balanced anyway.

Thanks and sorry I did 'miss' them. These seem good for portable use and great value currently £69.99 UK so a much cheaper alternative to the MM400X, which is another phone I've been looking at for a while now. Think I'll get a pair; aptX with my Walkman A15 and Moto X phone.

 

[seall]

  I haven't tried aptx LL much myself but I do know someone who bought a second Avantree Saturn Pro (first one connected to TV) and stuck it to his bluetooth headphones and connected the Saturn Pro in receiver mode to the headphones because he found the latency of normal bluetooth intolerable for online gaming. When I have tried watching movies or youtube videos on PC with normal bluetooth headphones the latency is pretty significant, though I think it normally connects through SBC. There was another poster in the other bluetooth thread though that connected his headphones to an Avantree Priva and found the latency of aptx perfectly fine for movies. If you can't add lip sync delays to your tv (if you have an amp) or you play online games that depend on fast responses like shooters then I would definitely try and get aptx LL in some form as it will definitely be noticeable to others when you game, even if you can't really tell yourself.

 
 

I agree with n00b2 about the possibility of buying a second Saturn Pro and set it as receiver and plug your preferred wired headphones in it. You'll have a perfect low latency system, just a little less comfortable than a 100% wireless headphone. But with the advantage that you can use whatever headphone you want (like real gaming ones with surround).
Anyway the bbp should be fine. Nice bass, nice soundstage.
It's OK.
I'm thinking, there are two specific gaming headphones with LL APTX, one Astrogaming, one, i don't remember.
You fun find them on the official APTX website in the LL APTX section.

I think two Saturn Pro's would kind of defeat the purpose of having a wireless system. So I decided to go with the Plantronics. Thank you both for your help! 

 

[WDitters]

So, i recommend you the Fidelio. Absolutely. Best bass ever. A pleasure.
Second choice, if you want around the ear and more detail and soundstage, more highs but less bass, are the plantronics.
Third the JBL if you do not find the Fidelio and want more bass (although a tiny bit darker) and more presence in vocals, plus more portability than the plantronics.
Bose if you need much portability.

I must say that with the second iteration of testing the Sennheiser M2 (AEBT) in fact I am starting to notice that my opinion is slowly starting to shift. ... True, the Sennheisers have a bump in the 4k mids, but in closer comparison between the two I also find that where it originally was perceived as a bump it is something I am actually getting used. And where I originally found the Plantronics better balanced I am now feeling as if something is missing in the mid section and as a result a slightly offset tonal balance.
 
And while I still really like the Pantronics huge soundstage, the Sennheisers much narrower soundstage actually feels like bringing a little more intimacy to the music ...
 
Of course in the end it'll  always be a matter of taste, but at least I am having the time of my life comparing them and listening to music in the process. For me, my current top 3 are the M2, Fidelio and Plantronics, but the jury is still out on which one will end up 1st 2nd or 3rd.  
 
An interesting find wrt the Sennheiser M2AEBT: You can actually use them connected to PC in USB mode effectively bypassing the PC internal DAC/analog audio-out and instead making use of some sort of onboard DAC circuitry instead

 

[Giogio]

  Thanks and sorry I did 'miss' them. These seem good for portable use and great value currently £69.99 UK so a much cheaper alternative to the MM400X, which is another phone I've been looking at for a while now. Think I'll get a pair; aptX with my Walkman A15 and Moto X phone.

ABSOLUTELY!
Thanks for bringing my attention to the price factor (ehm, as you are a real british english, can you correct my english? Is "bring the attention to" the right expression?)
With the Bose costing 4 times more, there is no competition, IF the Bose sound "better" (meaning, general quality) they surely do NOT sound so much better to cost 4 times more than the akg, ever.
Then, coming to tastes on signatures, well, it all depends on if people are willing to use EQ and how much they can tweak something with the EQ.
The Senny also, imo, are not worth that money. They do sound cleaner and more balanced, but also not particularly funny, and they felt too cold and boring to my tastes.
But I do not know your tastes.
But if you liked them enough in your short test, go for them! I like them a lot, they are so easy to put in a pocket, and they turn on and off so quickly.
Eventually you can EQ them a bit to improve/adapt their signature to your tastes even more.
I do not know if the Walkman has got the same functions of my Sony Xperia phone, but I have a simple EQ with 5 bands, And I reduce the 400 and 1000hz ones a bit and they immediately lose their muddiness. I also put some boost in the bass with that Sony Clear bass function, and in the other page of the audio settings I use the "Studio" setting in that sort of reverb thing.
There is also an option called "clear audio" which makes all this, but you cannot customize it, so sometimes I feel this clear audio to have too much highs and not enough bass.
 
DO it. They worth each cent.