[Giogio]

  For me, my current top 3 are the M2, Fidelio and Plantronics, but the jury is still out on which one will end up 1st 2nd or 3rd.  

Man, the post you've quoted is prehistoric. Wow, I was a bit less diplomatic in my suggestions in that time. Over time I have acquired more experience with Headphones and also with judging headphones and reviewing and suggesting them.
I have also just read how in the second page of the thread I said that the Phiaton Chord MS530 had no chance against the Fidelio. Which, well, it is somehow true, but, now I would be more specific, explaining that without EQ they sound more soft and somehow balanced than the Fidelio (which have a little boost in the bass) and could please those seeking that signature. But well, they just do not give bass, not even if asked to (with an EQ), so, this cut away lot of people, while the Fidelio can please more people (if we count those who are willing to eventually deboost their bass with some subtractive EQ). And the fidelio just sound more lively.
Anyway, with the discovery of the ATH-WS99BT, all changed. "Best bass ever" is not anymore actual.
 
Yes, I understand what you mean. It is not only a thing of the BBP. @n00b2 explained that also for the Symphony 1 compared to the M2 wireless. He said that when the soundstage is wider and especially deeper, some sounds can get "lost" in the soundstage, being placed more back in the "space".
Which is what I meant in that post, while describing the JBL.
The ATH for example have a bit less deeper soundstage than the BBP but still a relatively wide one, and lot lot lot more presence.
I will be able to compare them to the M2 in May...
But for what you say, i suspect the M2 could enter in my top 5...
A very big part of the "burn-in" mythology is actually "getting used to".
Real burn in is no more than a few hours.
 
If you have both, try to play with EQ and eventually with some effect (for example, in Foobar you can use a reverb, or a dolby, or a convolution -this I still have to try it) to make the soundstage more open. It is of course not the same as when the soundstage is open due to hardware properties like special drivers or an open back design, but it works. The Fidelio M2BT have a decent soundstage thanks to a DSP which Philips use.
So you can try to see how much you can make the M2 sound like the BBP or the BBP like the M2, and you will discover more about those headphones, and about your tastes!
 
Tastes can also change.
I liked a bit v-shaped headphones before.
The BBP were almost perfect to me.
Now since I have the ATH I feel the bbp have a huge hole in the mids and I cannot be happy with them if not by boosting the freqs between 600 and 2400hz and eventually even decreasing a bit the upper highs.
 
All is relative

 

[WirelessQuest]

I have the Audio Technica ATH-A900 and I think these are amazing.

I'm contemplating on buying the WS99BT.

Are they just as comfortable as each other? (comfort for 5hs+ is what I'm after and the A900 do the job perfectly)

Also I'm going to be pairing with my smartphone the Nexus 6. This (for some godforsaken reason) is not APTX enabled and I'll be mainly watching movies etc... still worth it?

 

[Giogio]

I have the Audio Technica ATH-A900 and I think these are amazing.

I'm contemplating on buying the WS99BT.

Are they just as comfortable as each other? (comfort for 5hs+ is what I'm after and the A900 do the job perfectly)

Also I'm going to be pairing with my smartphone the Nexus 6. This (for some godforsaken reason) is not APTX enabled and I'll be mainly watching movies etc... still worth it?

hmmm, i don't think so.
It depends on your ears. They have less than 5cm inner diameter pads, which are also not very deep. So, long and/or protruding ears would not fit well.
I've normal ears but still i preferred to stuff the pads with something which made them a big thicker and actually a little tiny bit larger, but also harder, which is good for the transmission of the vibration of the bass, but less good for the comfort.
I am trying to get the earpads of the kicker cush, they would be prefect. But they don't want to ship them in EU.

If you've ears like mine you could be fine anyway. Difficult to say. Subjective stuff the comfort.

For movies with speech they're awesome, they've got so much clarity and presence and still enough soundstage.
But for action less good than other ones because their bass, although when eqed is the most powerful, out of the box is not artificially boosted.
The Plantronics Backbeat pro for example have more action rumble without EQ, although less presence.

I also cannot say how they sound without APTX.
Soon I'll get another adapter, and so I'll have one in SBC and one in APTX.

But, movies on the smartphone?
Anyway, must it be around the ear, or can it be on ear?

Can you describe the signature of your headphone?

 

[cehowardNote3]

  I have already bought the Saturn Pro specifically for that.
I'll be using the headphones mainly for gaming and watching movies, so latency is important. I'll be listening to music too, but not that often. So, obviously, audio quality is important, but not as important as latency. NC is not important to me.

 What is your connection/hook up with the  Saturn Pro?  Such as, in a TV, in a receiver, etc??

 

[WirelessQuest]

Anyway, must it be around the ear, or can it be on ear?

Can you describe the signature of your headphone?

I'm no audiophile by any means (I'm comfortable watching moving with the in-earphones that ship with Samsung smartphones and I'm happy to listen to music on terrible vehicle speakers). Saying that, I still find it disconcerting that I won't be receiving the maximum enjoyment by not having aptx.

It's just a bit of a pain for me to use wires (looking after the baby, so on and off quite a lot) and sticking in-earphones in all the time almost requires constant cleaning (for me anyway - even a tiny bit of gunk I have to clean it off, in my nature...) , hence why I'm looking for Bluetooth headphones.

I'm after the most durable/comfortable/reliable pair, and having owned my A900 for over 7 years (iirc) , Audio technica have left a pleasant taste in my mouth/ears.

Yes I love the sound that come out of my cans but comfort, durability and reliability (no hissing noises, reliable Bluetooth connection etc) are my priority.

So with on-ear and over-ear... I've tried a few of both on display and the over-ear ones may leave my ears sweaty after prolonged use (does this happen to some?). If it's the on-ear type, they have to be extremely comfortable (the Sony MDR1AB I tried on were the most comfortable of the bunch, followed by the Bose Qc2, but still not as good as my A900, maybe because it's circumaural ). Anyway the shop I tried the displays didn't have a massive range and included Bose, Sony, sol republic, beats, jcl and they were all the portable type.

 

[cehowardNote3]

I'm no audiophile by any means (I'm comfortable watching moving with the in-earphones that ship with Samsung smartphones and I'm happy to listen to music on terrible vehicle speakers). Saying that, I still find it disconcerting that I won't be receiving the maximum enjoyment by not having aptx.
 

 
 The validity of aptx has been questioned a lot. Also, are you playing mp3 files or hi res/loseless flac files.. 
 
The opinion, that playing regular mp3 files, aptx has no affect, again, just repeating what I am getting from reading a lot of opinions.

 

[WirelessQuest]

 The validity of aptx has been questioned a lot. Also, are you playing mp3 files or hi res/loseless flac files.. 

The opinion, that playing regular mp3 files, aptx has no affect, again, just repeating what I am getting from reading a lot of opinions.

I don't know much about hi res/lossless flac files and if I'm listening to music it will be in mp3 format.

I will mainly be watching content (some of it 'similar' to blueray format.. ) on my smartphone (Nexus 6) which does not have aptx. (one of the main reasons for purchasing the Nexus was for its front facing stereo speakers)

FWIW I listen to A State Of Trance and imo it's the kind of music that sounds great/provides a pleasant experience (to my ears) on almost anything... cringe-worthy for audiophiles and people with tasteful music preferences ... But that's me

Anyways just check all my posts (above) for additional info.

 

[n00b2]

I don't know much about hi res/lossless flac files and if I'm listening to music it will be in mp3 format.

I will mainly be watching content (some of it 'similar' to blueray format.. ) on my smartphone (Nexus 6) which does not have aptx. (one of the main reasons for purchasing the Nexus was for its front facing stereo speakers)

FWIW I listen to A State Of Trance and imo it's the kind of music that sounds great/provides a pleasant experience (to my ears) on almost anything... cringe-worthy for audiophiles and people with tasteful music preferences ... But that's me

Anyways just check all my posts (above) for additional info.

 
Watching movies over bluetooth if you don't have aptx LL (not aptx) can have issues in that audio and video will be out of sync. Do you use an app on your phone that allows to to adjust the lip sync? Not too familiar with phone audio apps but the ones I use.

 

[WirelessQuest]

Watching movies over bluetooth if you don't have aptx LL (not aptx) can have issues in that audio and video will be out of sync. Do you use an app on your phone that allows to to adjust the lip sync? Not too familiar with phone audio apps but the ones I use.

Good to know. Are there even any smartphones with APTX-LL?

I use mxplayer a lot and I'm sure it has the option to fine tune the 'latency'...

 

[Giogio]

Good to know. Are there even any smartphones with APTX-LL?

I use mxplayer a lot and I'm sure it has the option to fine tune the 'latency'...

No, there aren't any.
The only way would be to connect an Avantree Saturn Pro 3.5 adapter to the audio aux of the smartphone. The Saturn Pro would transmitt the audio in LL Aptx to the headphones.
It is not a big adapter but it is something else to carry, and to charge.
 
Anyway, I partially disagree with n00b2, it is not an absolute must to have LL aptx (and then remember, BOTH the source and the receiver must have it, which means, you would have to buy the Plantronics Backbeat Pro, the only good headphones with LL Aptx. Which is not a bad thing, as they are good, and work very well for movies, but, it limits your choices).
LL Aptx is just a warranty of no lantency. But you can still get no noticeable latency with a good normal Aptx headphone. I watch a LOT of movies in internet. And I have noticed that some headphones produce more delay, other no noticeable delay, all being normal Aptx. For gaming it may be more delicate, because there a little delay means the death. But movies is ok.
Anyway in your case you do not have even the normal Aptx on your phone, and, yes, you WILL have delay with the SBC codec (the one used by the non Aptx bluetooth Headphones).
So, you have two options:
1) you try a couple of nice SBC headphones and you see how much you can improve the delay with the synch function of the mxplayer (check if you have it!). My suggestions for movies and for the music you listen to (which btw has nothing to do with audiophile, because audiophile may like dubstep too. I do, for example, although I am not a 100% fanatic audiophile, and although I find Armin van Buuren at best "laughable" as Dj) are the Bose Soundlink On Ear and the Jabra Revo Wireless.
Now, why am I suggesting you to buy a non Aptx headphone? Cannot you use an Aptx headphone with a non aptx phone? Yes you can, and the SBC codec will be used. So, actually if you find an Aptx headphone which you like more than the Revo and the Bose, you can go for it. I don't suggest it just to be honest with my tests, because I had no way to test those headphones with a non aptx source, and I cannot take for granted that they sound at least decent in SBC mode. But they could. It's up to you to try.

I still find it disconcerting that I won't be receiving the maximum enjoyment by not having aptx.
I'm after the most durable/comfortable/reliable pair, and having owned my A900 for over 7 years (iirc) , Audio technica have left a pleasant taste in my mouth/ears.
Yes I love the sound that come out of my cans but comfort, durability and reliability (no hissing noises, reliable Bluetooth connection etc) are my priority.

It is not clear to me if you have tried any other BT headphone before.
I also would like you to describe the sound signature of the Audio Technica you own.
Use your words. Try to describe if the sound is intimate or spacious, if the bass is tight or boomy, punchy or more rumbling, dominant or just gently present. If the mids are soft and just there somewhere in the "soundstage" or present and forward to the ears. And all what you can tell me aabout what you like and what you do not like in their sound.
About APTX, it is not only the codec which makes a good sound.
Apart for the fact that there are different qualities of SBC, and the highest quality sound pretty good, there also are different chips, and a headset with a better chip and a high quality SBC can sound better than one with a worse chip and Aptx (apart for the fact that generally speaking the chips which support aptx are few and I am not aware there are "bad ones" among them, but I ignore the difference in quality which they may have).
Then, there is the headphone itself, its hardware, drivers, design, dsp used...
So. Not having Aptx is not a drama. A good high end headphone should probably sound very good also in SBC mode.
Most people using the Momentum 2 wireless with an iPhone are perfectly satisfied. And they are using the SBC codec...

The validity of aptx has been questioned a lot. Also, are you playing mp3 files or hi res/loseless flac files..  The opinion, that playing regular mp3 files, aptx has no affect, again, just repeating what I am getting from reading a lot of opinions.

Quote your sources.
I disagree with your statement.
Here the reason:
the compression used by Bluetooth is in addition to whatever compression is in the music. So if you've got MP3s on your phone, those MP3s get decoded, then recompressed with a different lossy codec (SBC) to get sent to your wireless headphones.
(source, Cnet. The rest of the article is a bit, well, not so interesting. For example they state that the only way to test Aptx would be by using the same headphones with two different smartphones -one with aptx, one without- but this is not truw, because you could not know if the smartphone is just better than the other as a player. Also, there are different versions of the SBC codec, so, you do not know which one is being used. Same story for the Sony headphones where you can disable the Aptx. You do not know which SBC they use.
I have tested my dongle before installing the CSR Harmony software which gives them Aptx. The Fidelio M2BT sounded like ****. I do not know if it was a crappy SBC codec on the Fidelio or on the dongle. But the difference was HUGE. And I test mostly with MP3.)

 

[cehowardNote3]

I don't know much about hi res/lossless flac files and if I'm listening to music it will be in mp3 format.

I will mainly be watching content (some of it 'similar' to blueray format.. ) on my smartphone (Nexus 6) which does not have aptx. (one of the main reasons for purchasing the Nexus was for its front facing stereo speakers)

FWIW I listen to A State Of Trance and imo it's the kind of music that sounds great/provides a pleasant experience (to my ears) on almost anything... cringe-worthy for audiophiles and people with tasteful music preferences ... But that's me

Anyways just check all my posts (above) for additional info.

 
The main reason to have support of aptx is to get the benefit fo hi res/lossless/flac files across bluetooth. Playing mp3 files I doubt if there is any difference, although I have read some claim to that there is a difference.

 

[Giogio]

   
The main reason to have support of aptx is to get the benefit fo hi res/lossless/flac files across bluetooth. Playing mp3 files I doubt if there is any difference, although I have read some claim to that there is a difference.

Did you even read what I have just posted above, even quoting you?
What you say is not correct.
Read my post above.

 

[n00b2]

 
Did you even read what I have just posted above, even quoting you?
What you say is not correct.
Read my post above.

 
Thing is it really does depend on how bad the SBC codec being used is. All things being equal and both the SBC and aptx codecs used are good quality then you really won't notice any difference for mp3 files. Doing an A/B comparison you might notice a tiny difference but if you were given sbc randomly you wouldn't be able to tell that is what you got. The problems really start with certain headphones when they put a whole bunch of aptx signs on their product and put in a rubbish sbc codec. Going by discussions on here there seem to be a fair few headphones that have brilliant aptx and rubbish sbc (I have come across 1 or 2 myself but they were cheapies). That is a fault of the headphones themselves not SBC. Purely as a codec, for mp3 files, SBC is pretty much the same as aptx. You will notice this if you do an A/B comparison with headphones that have good SBC or something like the AKG k845bt that doesn't have aptx (but still sounds great). From my own testing, there were quite a few times when the AKG came out on top in comparisons with similar headphones for mp3 files but then lagged behind once FLAC were thrown in.
 
This was discussed a fair bit at the start of the high end bluetooth headphones thread IIRC back when aptx was still newish and just being tested. You should try one of those aptx double blind tests that are found on the net in many places (one of the good ones that actually tells you what methodology they used to get the sounds). When I tried one I did manage to pick the difference each time when I was really trying to find it but most other people I know couldn't tell or guessed the wrong one occasionally.

 

[ruthieandjohn]

   
Thing is it really does depend on how bad the SBC codec being used is.

Jaybirds, for their BlueBuds X wireless IEMs, proudly states that they have improved the subband coding (SBC) to above the standard.
 
I don't doubt that they could improve the decoding of the subband signal in their headphones, but I don't see how they can have any influence on the encoding into SBC that takes place on the bluetooth source (phone or other wireless transmitter).

 

[n00b2]

  Jaybirds, for their BlueBuds X wireless IEMs, proudly states that they have improved the subband coding (SBC) to above the standard.
 
I don't doubt that they could improve the decoding of the subband signal in their headphones, but I don't see how they can have any influence on the encoding into SBC that takes place on the bluetooth source (phone or other wireless transmitter).

Well the Jaybirds did sound a LOT better than almost all sbc bluetooth headphones in that price bracket when they came out so whatever they did it was done quite well (I'm not entirely sure what they did to alter the sound though). Again it just comes down to the quality of the codec. Since bluetooth 2.0 or 2.1 SBC itself isn't a bad codec. The "high quality" SBC with its bitrate of 328kpbs is actually quite good and similar in quality to high bitrate mp3s. The original low quality one though was pretty rubbish and the middle quality one isn't that great either. Once high quality SBC came out what was limiting the sound quality was the bluetooth circuitry being used by the headphones and not the codec itself. When the headphones improved their circuitry, the quality ouput through SBC also went up. There are limitations in SBC though and you will definitely notice a difference for FLAC or higher quality files when played over aptx. For mp3 though, if the codec is being used properly by both the headphone and the source then there is nothing wrong with SBC. A lot of devices don't support high quality mode though which has a pretty significant impact on the sound quality of SBC (I think Jelly Bean or ICS was the first Androind to support it). Not sure what Windows 7's native support level is but bluetooth audio sounded rubbish until I installed some 3rd party software (aptx isn't supported on my comp).