[dgabe24]

Pair of Backbeat Pro will be at my door on Monday  

 

[Giogio]

  Pair of Backbeat Pro will be at my door on Monday  

Waiting for your impressions!
Try them without EQ at first, and let them on your head for many hours on a row, so to get a bit used.
Then if you feel the need, try applying a bit EQ to see how they can encounter your needs.
 
And let us know

 

[kane7]

First of all, a big thanks to Giogio for this thread an all others for input.
Iˋve been searching the interwebs for BT headsets day and night for about 2 weeks now because my gf bought me a set of wireless headphones for my birthday. She meant to get me some BT ones but ended up ordering a pair of AKG K935 after reading tests and reviews and also knowing that I like my K450ˋs.

I have been looking at Sony MDR-1RBT but I wouldnˋt buy something today without apt-x, the mk2 was high up on my list but looking at what people are saying about them I donˋt think they are for me. And I guess if the 1RBT is not what Iˋm looking, for the 10RBT will not be any better even with apt-x.
I have had H/K, Bose, Sennheiser and many others as alternatives but they all seem to fail in one way or another.

I listen mostly to metal and rock (Metallica, Maiden, Sabbath, FFDP) and rap/hip-hop (Snoop, Eminem etc.) but also more grown up stuff like Pink Floyd and Dire Straits. I like bass, but well balanced bass. I like the deep basslines on Yelloˋs Rhythm divine and Dire Straits Ride across the river and I love the punchy mid-bass on Michael Jˋs Billie Jean.


The problem is that there are only a few electronic stores where I live and none of them have a good line of BT headsets on display. Iˋve now reduced my list to the Plantronics and Fidelio since it looks like they both have, what for me from your descriptions seems to be, the sound Iˋm after . The Plantronics Iˋll have to order because no store near me has it. The Fidelio M2BT is in stock in my favourite local store and I still have 2 weeks to return the AKGˋs for a money back. The Fidelio is 228.- euro while the Plantronics are 216.-+ shipping so there is no price difference. Iˋm going to use them more out and about than at home.



My preference list is like this:
1. Sound quality (I like my music to move me, I donˋt listen to music, I feel it )
2. Fit and comfort (I use my K450ˋs 2-6 hours a day in up to 3-4 hour stretches with little or no issues. If itˋs hot the pads gets sweaty and sometimes my ears are getting a little numb but no big deal. I like my new ones to be like that or even better)
3. Ease of use, features etc. (Play/pause, skip songs, volume up/down, answer calls etc. without having to push, twist and tap the right combination.)

So, here are my questions:
Iˋve never had over the ear headphones before, what are the pros and cons compared to on the ear?
Do i really need ANC? Noice has never been an issue with my K450ˋs.
You say you like the Fidelios best but you actually write more positive things and recomend the Plantronics more often in this thread... You still think the Fidelios are better? And why?
Should I just buy the Fidelios at the local store and if I like them just forget about the Plantronics or are the Plantronics so good that I really need to try them?

 

[james444]

  @james444
you are right, it is a tricky thing, but, if you read carefully what I do is not saying that my "opinion" is objective.
This already caused confusion in this forum on another thread where I have "defended" the Plantronics.
I just try to separate facts from opinions. I think that there are some things which are more or less objective, and others which are pretty much subjective. And I do not mix them.
So, for example, I do not include the sound signature in what is objective. I only include the detail, the soundstage, the features, the build, the price, and the overall sound quality (quality, not signature. By which I mean the quality of how the frequencies are rendered, not the quantity and proportion, not the colored/uncolored stuff. For example, I consider if highs are harsh, if bass has got body or not, if the sound is dull, if the mids are boxy etc. I do not consider as objectively positive or negative if the highs are more pronounced than the mids, because some people will prefer that. But no people ever would prefer harsh highs. Do you understand what I mean?).
And for the same reason, if two headphones have similar overall "objective" quality, but different or even very different sound signature, like UE9000 and AKG K845, Samsung Level over and Plantronics Backbeat Pro, Fidelio M2BT and Bose Soudlink On Ear, I do not give a negative vote to those who have a signature which I do not like.
I do not consider uncolored better than colored, and I do not consider one color better than another. These are tastes and I try to respect tastes.
And this is a reason why after testing headphones without EQ I test them with EQ, to see if their sound is a choice, a "factory tuning" which can be "retuned" with EQ by the user, or is a hardware limitation.
It helps me to understand how good are headphones "objectively" also when they sound not so well to me subjectively.
 
So, "more or less" and in the psychoacustic limitations of the human ear, I think that some things can be considered objective enough. At least if somebody is trained and has spent a couple of months comparing more than 20 Headphones mostly side by side.
If somebody only tried ONE headphone in his whole life, then it is another story
 
Expressed in this way, would you agree with me? Or do you still thinks that there is no possible objectivity ever? (but in this case, what do we do with forums, reviews, interchange of opinions...?)

 
Don't get me wrong mate, I applaud your enthusiasm and dedication. Your thread is undoubtedly a big help for a lot of people and your heart is definitely in the right place.
 
What I mean to say is that an "opinion" or a "point of view" can never be objective, because objectivity would imply that it can be tested and reproduced by others with the same result. You're still quite a newbie on head-fi, but if you stay a little longer and follow the threads, you'll see that the opposite is true about most aspects you mentioned. There's a huge disparity about detail resolution, for example, even among experienced listeners. Some folks love thin / sharp treble and attest these phones high-end detail. Others shun the same phones for having "fake" detail and complain of treble spikes. Perception of soundstage varies wildly among listeners. And more often than not there's no consensus on sound quality whatsoever.
 
So, before referring to something as objective, you might want to ask yourself if everybody else will inevitably perceive it the exact same way as you do. Besides specs, color and price, I can't think of many aspects of a headphone to which the answer will be "yes". However, that's not a bad thing in my book, 'cause this is what the forums are for: an opportunity to exchange our subjective opinions, talk to interesting people, learn a thing or two. Sometimes reach some sort of consensus about certain things and other times remain in respectful disagreement. If most things here were objective or absolute, our community would actually be a lot less interesting. Just my 2c.

 

 

[Giogio]

@james444
Yes I understand what you mean.
Of course there is always a limit. But this is normal. Man, even with your partner you will never be sure that she really understand you. Old philosophical questions.
If you search in the detail, you never find a end. Reality is infinite
So, try to say "more or less objective", I even have sort of templates
But at the end I tend to trust in the common sense of people and I write "objective" hoping that people understand that I mean "more or less objective, in the limit of what can be objective in this field".
 
So, well, there still are for me quite objective things, like the measurements which Tyll of Innerfidelity or other people around make.
But some people cannot or do not want to use programs and so they use their ears.
Which is not much different because anyway even when you have the "objective" measurements of Tyll, this does not mean that you will like the sound
 
I think that, as far as people do fair comparisons, things can be considered quite objective.
For example, having tested all major BT Headphones, and comparing them ONLY among their category (= NOT with wired Headphones) I do not expect from them the quality of $1000 wired Headphones.
So when I say "objectively very good detail" I mean for the BT world. And I mean it after having tested almost all what the BT world has to offer.
That's why I think I can be "More or less" objective.
 
But, yeah. I kind of say it myself often: no real, absolute universal objectivity is possible in this matter  

 

[Giogio]

First of all, a big thanks to Giogio for this thread an all others for input.
Iˋve been searching the interwebs for BT headsets day and night for about 2 weeks now because my gf bought me a set of wireless headphones for my birthday. She meant to get me some BT ones but ended up ordering a pair of AKG K935 after reading tests and reviews and also knowing that I like my K450ˋs.

I have been looking at Sony MDR-1RBT but I wouldnˋt buy something today without apt-x, the mk2 was high up on my list but looking at what people are saying about them I donˋt think they are for me. And I guess if the 1RBT is not what Iˋm looking, for the 10RBT will not be any better even with apt-x.
I have had H/K, Bose, Sennheiser and many others as alternatives but they all seem to fail in one way or another.

I listen mostly to metal and rock (Metallica, Maiden, Sabbath, FFDP) and rap/hip-hop (Snoop, Eminem etc.) but also more grown up stuff like Pink Floyd and Dire Straits. I like bass, but well balanced bass. I like the deep basslines on Yelloˋs Rhythm divine and Dire Straits Ride across the river and I love the punchy mid-bass on Michael Jˋs Billie Jean.


The problem is that there are only a few electronic stores where I live and none of them have a good line of BT headsets on display. Iˋve now reduced my list to the Plantronics and Fidelio since it looks like they both have, what for me from your descriptions seems to be, the sound Iˋm after . The Plantronics Iˋll have to order because no store near me has it. The Fidelio M2BT is in stock in my favourite local store and I still have 2 weeks to return the AKGˋs for a money back. The Fidelio is 228.- euro while the Plantronics are 216.-+ shipping so there is no price difference. Iˋm going to use them more out and about than at home.



My preference list is like this:
1. Sound quality (I like my music to move me, I donˋt listen to music, I feel it

)
2. Fit and comfort (I use my K450ˋs 2-6 hours a day in up to 3-4 hour stretches with little or no issues. If itˋs hot the pads gets sweaty and sometimes my ears are getting a little numb but no big deal. I like my new ones to be like that or even better)
3. Ease of use, features etc. (Play/pause, skip songs, volume up/down, answer calls etc. without having to push, twist and tap the right combination.)

So, here are my questions:
Iˋve never had over the ear headphones before, what are the pros and cons compared to on the ear?
Do i really need ANC? Noice has never been an issue with my K450ˋs.
You say you like the Fidelios best but you actually write more positive things and recomend the Plantronics more often in this thread... You still think the Fidelios are better? And why?

Should I just buy the Fidelios at the local store and if I like them just forget about the Plantronics or are the Plantronics so good that I really need to try them?

Hello Kane
 
If you like the AKG, why don't you try the AKG Y 45 BT (on ear) or the K845BT (over ear)?
I have only tried the K845BT and I find them very good for all what is (sorry james) "more or less objective".
So, for being BT, they have one of the best detail I have seen. A very nice soundstage, smooth mids, and crispy highs.
For my ears they were not so neutral like people say, I had the impression that they tended to hype highs a bit (which I kind of like anyway).
Their only "problem" is that the bass frequency response was not very wide and deep. Bass is never really exciting. And I did not have any real improvement with EQ.
 
Anyway, reading your musical tastes, I kind of think that, among what I have tested (because, remember, I can only talk of what I have tested) the Fidelio would be a better choice.
 
First of all let me say something: I do not know where you have read bad things of the mk2, but if you refer to this thread, I think that only Kelleytoons tried them. And he is a bit basshead and does not have Aptx.
So it may not necessarily mean that they are not worth.
Look how many people like them, in their own mk2 thread...
I cannot talk of them, but I hope to be able to try them sooner or later.
 
About your questions, no, you do not necessarily need ANC and I do not like ANC myself. The Fidelio do not have it, and I am ok with them.
The Plantronics are NOT "so good" that you need to try them
They are very good but I do not feel that I miss them at all, having the Fidelio.
The only thing I miss is the better soundstage, and the better highs.
But with the Plantronics I missed the better warmth and better bass deepness of the Fidelio. And their better portability.
 
So, I think that any of the two will be very good for you in what is objective.
The difference will be the signature: plantronics more bright, fidelio more warm, plantronics tighter bass, fidelio deeper and more rumbling one.
Both of them do not overwhelm with the bass. They boost it only a little bit, and then they let their good hardware do the rest: when in a track there is lot of bass, they deliver it wonderfully.
I like the bass of the FIdelio more. Because I like sub-bass. And I think that in much hip-hop lately there is quite a lot of sub-bass too...
Sub-bass = rumble, mid/upper-bass = punch.
 
So, feel free to choose the one you want, I doubt you will be disappointed.
But having to use it mostly outside, potability would be better. And that's Fidelio.
 
If you wait a bit, the Sennheiser Momentum On Ear will be soon available. I do not know if they will be "better" than the Fidelio.
I have listened to the wired ones and they are very good but the Bass has not the deepness of the Fidelio.
Still, they could be a wonderful choice.

 

[cehowardNote3]

   
Quote:

First of all, a big thanks to Giogio for this thread an all others for input.
Iˋve been searching the interwebs for BT headsets day and night for about 2 weeks now because my gf bought me a set of wireless headphones for my birthday. She meant to get me some BT ones but ended up ordering a pair of AKG K935 after reading tests and reviews and also knowing that I like my K450ˋs.

I have been looking at Sony MDR-1RBT but I wouldnˋt buy something today without apt-x, the mk2 was high up on my list but looking at what people are saying about them I donˋt think they are for me. And I guess if the 1RBT is not what Iˋm looking, for the 10RBT will not be any better even with apt-x.
I have had H/K, Bose, Sennheiser and many others as alternatives but they all seem to fail in one way or another.
(snipped for space)

 
If you heard the Sony  MDR 10RBT, they are good real good, and they have aptx.. I had the 10RBT, 1RBTMK2 and hte Harman Kardon BT all at one time. After listening to them for a good while, I let a couple of my gaming co-workers listen to them.. I gave them the 10RBT and the Harman Kardon BT first.. They all agreed that both were good, and they gave the slight edge to the Sony 10RBT over the Harman Kardon BT..
 
Then I gave them the Sony MDR 1RBT MK2..One guy told me the that the first two pairs I gave him were bullcrap compared to the MK2.. I had already knew that  the MK2 was way over the other two, just wanted to see if others concurred.. I since took the 10RBT back, and I kept the Harman Kardon BTs, because they have awesome clamping force, and they are my gym workout and running phones. IMO, the MK2, at their price point, stands alone.. In fact, personally, can somebody tell me what BT headphones are better than the MK2s? I would like to try them..

 

 

[Giogio]

In fact, personally, can somebody tell me what BT headphones are better than the MK2s? I would like to try them..

 
 

I will tell you when I can try the MK2
 
Thank you for your feedback on those headphones.
If you can be a bit more specific, so to make a real comparison out of it, I would appreciate.
It is something I miss in this Thread. it is becoming a bit too much a one man show
I think that, as James observed, objectivity is utopy, so, the best is to have more opinions.
 
Which ones do you have now? HK and MK2?

 

[kane7]

cehowardNote3: Thanks for the input, Iˋve read your review of the 3 somewhere, remembering the comment about the H/Kˋs and 10rbt beeing **** compared to the mk2ˋs.
Since I canˋt get the mk2ˋs in any stores here (I live in Norway) and I donˋt feel comfortable with maybe having to return them ( it took me 2 months to return a Pac steering wheel adapter that showed up doa...) I just bought the Fidelio today
My girlfriend has a friend working in the shop so I got them for 192.- euro, thatˋs pretty good I think
Giogio: I can not say if I like them or not yet but U2ˋs rattle and hum made me stomp my feat, IM Rock in Rio made me smile and a collection of songs from one of my favourite norwegian bands, Oslo Ess, made me leave the couch, smiling and stomping my feat...
But so much for first impression, Iˋll give them some burn in time and get back with what I really think of them in some days
For now, the rock is on!

 

[Giogio]

cehowardNote3: Thanks for the input, Iˋve read your review of the 3 somewhere, remembering the comment about the H/Kˋs and 10rbt beeing **** compared to the mk2ˋs.
Since I canˋt get the mk2ˋs in any stores here (I live in Norway) and I donˋt feel comfortable with maybe having to return them ( it took me 2 months to return a Pac steering wheel adapter that showed up doa...) I just bought the Fidelio today

My girlfriend has a friend working in the shop so I got them for 192.- euro, thatˋs pretty good I think

Giogio: I can not say if I like them or not yet but U2ˋs rattle and hum made me stomp my feat, IM Rock in Rio made me smile and a collection of songs from one of my favourite norwegian bands, Oslo Ess, made me leave the couch, smiling and stomping my feat...

But so much for first impression, Iˋll give them some burn in time and get back with what I really think of them in some days

For now, the rock is on!

192!? Damn! I have paid 239!

Have fun! I perfectly understand what you say. It is the reason why I love them.

 

[Giogio]

So, as promised I have edited my first post to make things a bit more clear and revisit the rough rating in a more objective way, filtering even more away my subjective preferences (although it hurts to see the House of Marley so down in the rating).

I will, when I can, continue adding reviews and a sort of comparison for categories.

And as also promised, here is a list of all what we have to expect for the future, which was announced at CES 2015:

• Definitive Technology Symphony 1 (already available)
  
• Polk Hinge Wireless
  
• Phiaton BT 330 NC
  
• JLab Omni (already available, I have tested it)
  
• Bang and Olufsen BeoPlay H8 (available, tested and reviewed)
  
• Urbanears Plattan ADV Wireless
  
• Gibson Standard Unplugged
  
• Trainer by Gibson
  
• AKG Y 45 BT (already available since before CES as far as I know. It is now my portable set)
  
• Harman Kardon Soho Wireless (already available at least in EU) (available)
  
• Monoprice 11536/37
  
• Onkyo OKH-M1BT
  
• Sony MDR-1ABT (just made available)
  
• Sennheiser Momentum Over the Ear Wireless (already available, no money for it now)
  
• Sennheiser Momentum On Ear Wireless (just made available)
  
• Sennheiser Urbanite XL Wireless (already available, and already tried)
  

 


Actually the Fidelio M2BT were also "introduced" at CES 2015 and presented by Cnet as new, even if I have them since a couple of months and What Hi-Fi reviewed them since longer.


 


If I have missed something, or when you see that something is already available, please let me know!

 

[david8613]

Giogio have you seen these very affordable, looks nice, but I don't know about the sound. Another forum member said they sound good.


http://www.nakamichi-usa.com/index.php/bthp-06

 

[Giogio]

Giogio have you seen these very affordable, looks nice, but I don't know about the sound. Another forum member said they sound good.


http://www.nakamichi-usa.com/index.php/bthp-06

There are thousand of affordable bt headphones.
I cannot test them all, so i only test the best ones.
What makes you think that these should be tried?
They do not even have APTX.

 

[Nothing Within]

Anyone seen the Gibson standard unplugged at ces 2015? Looks to be quite interesting. Digging the style.

 

[ActiveTechREV]

Finally got through this thread!  I found this thread this morning and finally finished reading it throughout my work day.
 
Hello fellow enthusiast! This my first post to this forum and I wanted to join the discussion and give my feedback of some BT headphones as well other stuff related to it. I also got some questions about over/on the ear headphones
 
My specific experience with bluetooth headphones are as follows:
 
- Plantronics Backbeat go 2
- Jaybird Bluebud X
- Photive BTH3 
- QY7 Headphones
 
But before I go into my opinion of each of these I'll start by giving some context:
 
I got into this whole audiophile stuff when I got my hands on wired Shure SE530's and SE535's. Wow it was an amazing transition from ipod earphones to these bad boys. To make a long story short, they broke one day and I had to send them for repair.  It was an interesting experience because I could not stand any other kind of headphones.  I could hear all the defects, cracks and pops. I needed some headphones while I waited for them to get back. I ended up buying the PowerBeats 1 (I will shamefully admit I did a comparison review of them on youtube) and found them tolerable. I just really liked how easy they were to put on and take off.  When my shures got back I was reunited with happiness. There's a little more to this story, but they broke again and instead of repairing them they sent me brand new ones which I ended up selling.
 
Whenever I went without 535's I noticed that I had trouble tolerating crappy headphones and generally crappy sound, but as the days passed I found myself adjusting to crappy sound.  It's an interesting effect. 
 
My current opinion (someone convince me otherwise please)
 
So with sharing my listening experience thus far, I'm of the opinion that how good headphones sounds is based on what you were previously listening to, or what you're generally use to.  I imagine that if you work around music or any high end audio/video editing that you'll discern more than others.   If you've been listening to low quality sound (pandora) , when you hear good sound like (flac audio files) you'll appreciate it a lot more.  but if all you listen to his high quality stuff, hearing pandora might feel like listening to nails on a chalkboard (even if it's your favorite song). It's sort of like dieting, when you eat less, you can get use to it.
 
My current phobia with high end audio is that once I get back into, I will never be able to turn back and am doomed to be headphone snob forever.
 
In truth, high quality sound is important to me, but I'm beginning to realize I can't everything in a single package....so this got me thinking..what if I got 2 sets of headphones?
 
Wirecutter Sold me, almost
 
I found wirecutter and was totally sold on the Jabra Revo wireless.  I liked the idea of being able to have wireless / plug in so that I could transition easily without having to pair or use mulitpoint between laptop and phone. But after further research I found out maybe not.  For whatever reason, this lead me to the Photive BTH3 headphones ($49.99).  BT headphones with a wired option. While still considering the Jabra Revos, I come across the pendulumic stance s1+ which I WAS currently considering seriously.  Now I'm not sure where I am.  Thinking about going to get the ATH-M50's or the DT770 .. either way I'm all over the place so it's best that I describe my listening habits and behavior.
 
 
My habits and Listening Behavior
 
I'm a personal trainer and I work in a gym. I'm typically there anywhere from 12-14 hours. I workout in the middle of the day (powerlifting) and when I'm not training clients I will work on my youtube channel or write a blog post.  It's during this time that I want to listen to some classical music or some sort of music to do some writing/creative work. It's during this time I want some nice headphones to listen to some good fidelity, something I haven't really been able to appreciate in a while.  The jaybirds BBX were great, but were no longer cutting it for me (which I list below). 
 
About 75% of my listening is podcasts and audio books.  The cheap QY7 are barely discernible when compared to BBX when listening to spoken word. After I got them replaced (yeah they broke) , they sent me a new one which I sold to buy the REVOs, but instead but the Photive BTH3. I use my headphones in my car to listen to podcasts /books/ typically keeping one out during my 35 mins commute.
 
I listen to everything. Taylor swift, Godsmack, Dubstep, Kpop, Rap, maroon 5, classical..  I think I prefer a punchy base and crisp and clear mids and highs. I like hearing clear and clean vocals. Some songs like uptown is great for beats by dre base heavy headphones but I don't like what they do to other genres.  Someone please recommend me something .. ...  I'm thinking between the Jabra Revo and the pendulumic stance s1+ as of this very writing, or maybe the bose

Questions about Over ear
 
Is my ear suppose to fit in the ear cup completely?
 
Quick headphone reviews
 
- Plantronics Backbeat go 2 ~$75
The sound is weak and not loud enough for my liking. Everything sounded like radio, I could barely stand them for music to be honest. Comfortable and easy to fit. 
 
- Jaybird Bluebud X ~$140
The fit can be tricky but once you get it they sound great. Just enough base, but not too much.  The base was more than I expected but very good.  The wings that you use to improve the fit in the ear get tiresome after an hour of use. If you sweat around the ears they will have trouble staying in.  In my case, I used the tight fit set up and that worked best. Call quality was always horrible, no one could hear me. Music sounded great, but after about 90 minutes of continuous use I wanted to take them off. I had these for over a year.
 
- Photive BTH3  ~$50
Ear Fatigue.  Muddy base.  My ears don't fit in the cups (but are they suppose to? Used as over ear or on ear they are uncomfortable after 30 mins.  I got relatively ears and a big head for my 5'8" frame. I was actually going to tolerate these but I people have been complain about an echo during phone calls. 
so back to amazon you go.
 
- QY7 Headphones ~$30
My low expectations of these headphones make these a winner. I've never had the opportunity to a do a direct comparison with jaybirds and the backbeat go 2, but from what I can recall these sound like a good FM station. I used them during a workout and they are tolerable.
 
 
I'm really looking forward to some of your suggestions for me for over the ear or on the ear headphones. Thanks!