[caryking]

I think I’ve brought this up! In another thread; however, I want to give context…. So, as my kids have left the home, my wife and I are starting the process of downsizing. Most likely, I will be losing my dedicated 2-Channel listening room, so, I thought, what’s next? Headphones! I am in the beginning of the HP world and started listening to decent one‘s at Moon Audio, this week. BTW, Drew is a really good guy and I highly recommend them as a company. So, when I get there, I was escorted into the main listening room. It was very nice with tons of equipment, for both HP’s and 2-Channel audio.

I told Drew my sound preferences, Drew set me down with the Inspire Dragon HP amp. I picked three songs to be my references 1) Paul Desmond - Black Orpheus 2) Gerry Mulligan - Night Lights 3) Melody Gardot - Baby, I’m a fool. One by one, Drew brought in different HP’s for me to listen. I asked to start lower and go higher (500 with a max of 2K). The following are the HP’s I listened to…

HiFiMan Ananda
Dan Clark Aeon Open Back
Dan Clark Aeon Closed Back
HiFiMan HE-R10
HiFiMan Arya
Sennheiser 800s

Let me start, by saying, I had no idea what to expect as I’ve never been a HP listener. In fact, the change, in sound presentation, from 2-Channel to HP, was a challenge, even though, Drew prepped me to the differences. Once I got settled in, relaxed, I started to appreciate the intimacy HP’s can provide for listening. Now, let me tell you what I thought from my first experience:

First, I could live with any of these HP’s; however, I can see this as being very addictive and wanting more and more…. Actually, the 800s’ would require me to really find the right amp to bring them out a little differently than the Inspire Dragon. So, they would be the only ones I would pass on, in the beginning. I really liked the way the Dan Clark’s fit in my head. The ear shaped cups were nice.

Overall, HiFiMan Arya provided the best bass (BTW, I’m not a bass hog as I use bookshelf speakers in my main 2-Channel system) because they are tight and not overly blown out. Not thin sounding, just tight. The information, in the music was there. The tonality was very nice. Separation was nice; however, I didn’t find them any better than the others; just, more information, in the soundstage, so, they presented instruments more defined in space. Just not really anymore expansive.

Closed back HP’s had a better control on the bass; however, at the expense of more width. Again, as I begin this journey, I really could live with any of the HP’s, outside of the 800s. So, where does this leave me? I’m in conversation with JR Tube Audio about a single ended amp. More to come on that…

In summary, I will be taking a step into the HP world soon and, again, I highly recommend the folks at Moon Audio when you are looking for something new…

 

[Death_Block]

Why are the 800s still out of the question if you are in talk with JR tube audio? Good luck none the less, I'd have listened to a bigger range, outside of sennheiser that you didn't like it was only 2 other manufacturers.

 

[caryking]

The Sennheiser has the opportunity and/or abilty to showcase varying amplifiers and/or tube rolling, I think... Nothing says I will not buy them in the future; however, I want to focus on the others first, to get started...

BTW, Death_Block, are you familiar with JR Tube Audio?

 

[tomb]

JR Tube Audio appears to make very visually appealing power amplifiers. I'm not sure that translates well to headphones.

Yeah, I'm with Death_Block. You might need to educate your ears a little more before investing a ton in headphones. The HD800s will be the most refined, have the best quality control, and probably the widest soundstage of the ones you auditioned. Dan Clarks are fine, but unless I'm mistaken - are the result of a lineage of making homemade headphones from the planar drivers in the Fostex T50rp. There are several mfrs out there today that started in the same way. However planars, especially T50rp-based planars, have their own peculiar qualities and might benefit from actually using the power amps from JR Tube Audio. HiFiMan is similar, but became known for making very efficient versions of planar driver (orthodynamic) headphones. Unfortunately, their quality-control issues have a long track record.

Planar headphones are generally known for very fluid and hefty bass, but usually suffer from little soundstage and huge power requirements, especially at low impedance. That's not necessarily bad, but they have a particular "flavor" in sound and response that differs from most headphones, similar to electrostatics. The very best can be very good, but they are not the same as dynamics. If you are familiar with speakers, it's like comparing Magnepan speakers to traditional dynamic speakers.

The HD800s may be the finest dynamic headphone made. The closest competitor (or conqueror, depending on opinion) is the Focal Utopia or Clear. All deserve additional attention from you, IMHO.

 

[caryking]

Tomb, thanks for the response. A little background…. I’ve been a 2-Channel person for 30+ years. I have experienced a lot of systems, of my own and others. Just before Cary Audio began, I was part of some of the R&D regarding the sound. I did travel with them to present at CES shows. Dennis Had, Inspire line sold at Moon Audio, and I are still friends and spend time together listening and evaluating sound. We have another friend that gets together every couple of weeks to have fun.

I hope this doesn’t sound arrogant; however, I’m experienced. That said, I have a sound that I like and it’s very different than the people I get together with. Peoples preferences in sound is all subjective, not objective. We do have objective measurements; however, it’s people subjective taste that allows so much equipment to be on the market.

I gave Drew, at Moon Audio, some sound preferences I have and presented the headphones I listened to. The HD800S were a request by me as people suggested them. I do like them; however, for a different reason. For normal listening, they would not be my everyday preference. The others were more to my likings as I like a more warm balance with very good soundstaging. Given, I think the 800S were better at soundstaging; however, the tonal balance was not for me. Now, I think the 800S would be fun to roll tubes and try different amps with, as they are very revealing.

Regarding Magnepan, I’m typically not a fan of their house sound; so, I would agree, planar HP’s shouldn’t be my cup of tea. So far, they are…. I have tried many different speakers, in my home system, with only two brands that I use: tried) Vandersteen, Theil, Magnepan, Quad, Acoustats, KLH Model 5 (new ones), and others. Use) ADS and Celestion. I find their overall polite sound to my liking. Too much in the dynamics usually gets fatiguing to me. Also, I don’t listen loudly at all.

One last note, Dennis Had is in retirement and does the Inspire line for fun and a little extra cash in his retirement. I have asked him to work on a different amp; however, at this point, he’s doesn’t really want to do that. I understand this is his retirement fun; so I’ve pushed hard enough. In comes JR Tube Audio as an option. John and I are talking about standardizing his line and offering a suite of products for both 2-Channel and HP use. John does wind his own transformers and uses a high-quality parts internal. I’m hoping we can get a good HP amp to possibly send to a few reviewers (YouTuber’s with big following) and see if a market can be created.

BTW, I would love to hear people‘s thoughts on something for the market, from JR Tube Audio. This would need to be in the higher end to make sense as the lower end market is gobbled up with very good products…

 

[tomb]

Yes, you've certainly proven that you're experienced in audio. I've been dabbling with high-fidelity in and about since 1971, but I sure can't drop as many names as you. Despite that, my suggestions about headphones and spending more time with them stands, especially if you're preparing to drop as much money into it as it sounds.

Do yourself a favor and do some research on ECP Audio. You might also check some places on the web that might otherwise be referred to as people that are a head-case or some that might be called your super best friends in audio. (Head-Fi doesn't like direct links to other forums and may delete this, too.)

 

[caryking]

Yes, you've certainly proven that you're experienced in audio. I've been dabbling with high-fidelity in and about since 1971, but I sure can't drop as many names as you. Despite that, my suggestions about headphones and spending more time with them stands, especially if you're preparing to drop as much money into it as it sounds.

Do yourself a favor and do some research on ECP Audio. You might also check some places on the web that might otherwise be referred to as people that are a head-case or some that might be called your super best friends in audio. (Head-Fi doesn't like direct links to other forums and may delete this, too.)

Tomb, again, thanks for the response…. Yea, I’m not big on dropping names; however, I wanted to show I’ve been around the block, which sounds like, you have too.. that said, I know nothing about HP’s and expectations. So, my first foray was done local, to me, which was Moon Audio. I’m really wanting to learn more about expectations, so, before I sat down with Drew, at Moon Audio, he certainly told me how HP expectations and 2-Channel speaker expectations are very different. That helped; however, it was still a shock. No, the scale of HP’s are no where near 2-Channel; yet, the intimacy was very nice…. The intimacy is something I’m really forward too as I move forward.

BTW, I’m all about finding good for less, it it moves me. I will be going over to the friends (I’ve been there before), as well as get someone to help with my head-case issue and ask questions…

 

[Monsterzero]

Dan Clarks are fine, but unless I'm mistaken - are the result of a lineage of making homemade headphones from the planar drivers in the Fostex T50rp. There are several mfrs out there today that started in the same way. However planars, especially T50rp-based planars, have their own peculiar qualities and might benefit from actually using the power amps from JR Tube Audio

While Dan Clark and Zach Merhbach both got their start in headphones by modding Fostex drivers, both have moved past that stage many years ago.
Both DCA and ZMF now use their own proprietary drivers for all of their headphones and both are amongst the best companies to deal with in the industry, though my personal preference in sound and customer service lie with ZMF.

DCAs tend to have a very smooth, bass neutral (light) sound, whereas ZMF headphones are full of texture, fantastic mids and most of their headphones have very nice bass.

HiFiMan is similar, but became known for making very efficient versions of planar driver (orthodynamic) headphones. Unfortunately, their quality-control issues have a long track record.

+1
Although the Susvara, HE1000 and HE6 are amongst the hardest headphones on the planet to drive. They do make some some good sounding headphones but their QC is dodgy at best.

 

[caryking]

So, a buddy of mine loaned me his Stax SR-X Mk3 with the sRD-7. These hame a ton of detail and speed. I would say the overall sound was leaner than I may like as well as not presenting a large soundstage. For all the great qualities, the later would keep me from wanting something like these.

anything I’m missing?