[Nik]

I try to start a new thread here for a VERY IMPORTANT question about phase on the CD tracks...
After many test I don not have any doubt about this my theory... I sent my thoughts to many technical experts, electronics designers... But they generally answer with numbers and data... I don't need this, I just ask to them and to all audiophiles guys to do their tests... And sure, he has a very good setup... Can go easily to confirm my thesis... THANKS!


READ THIS AND TRY!!! DO YOUR PERSONAL TEST, PLEASE...


Positive polarity (+ correct) or negative polarity (- incorrect).

If the number of tracks on a CD is equal, the first track will be set in phase, (+ polarity), the second inverted (- polarity) and so on all alternating: + - + - ...

If the number of tracks on a CD is odd, the first track will be set out of phase, (- polarity), the second inverted (+ polarity) and so on all alternating: - + - +...

So the last track is always - (negative).

I can't give you any explication, but may be, my conclusion is that this depends on the printing of the CD and its probably the criterion for which the laser of the CD player reads the information about the structure of the CD (number of the tracks...).

Waiting for your tests!

Best regards to all!
Nik

 

[pinnahertz]

I try to start a new thread here for a VERY IMPORTANT question about phase on the CD tracks...
After many test I don not have any doubt about this my theory... I sent my thoughts to many technical experts, electronics designers... But they generally answer with numbers and data... I don't need this, I just ask to them and to all audiophiles guys to do their tests... And sure, he has a very good setup... Can go easily to confirm my thesis... THANKS!


READ THIS AND TRY!!! DO YOUR PERSONAL TEST, PLEASE...


Positive polarity (+ correct) or negative polarity (- incorrect).

If the number of tracks on a CD is equal, the first track will be set in phase, (+ polarity), the second inverted (- polarity) and so on all alternating: + - + - ...

If the number of tracks on a CD is odd, the first track will be set out of phase, (- polarity), the second inverted (+ polarity) and so on all alternating: - + - +...

So the last track is always - (negative).

I can't give you any explication, but may be, my conclusion is that this depends on the printing of the CD and its probably the criterion for which the laser of the CD player reads the information about the structure of the CD (number of the tracks...).

Waiting for your tests!

Best regards to all!
Nik

- incorrect for all of the above.  
 
The transfer of audio data to a CD cannot change phase.  
 
If you are experiencing this as a result, you have the phase problem elsewhere. 

 

[Nik]

No problem phase...
So even a lot of my friends have the same phase problem in their setup???
My Headphones Headtrip amplifier have two phase switch, for what?
My Vitus cd player has inverter phase in the menu... Why?

That 50 % of the recordings are out of phase many guys know...

 

[Speedskater]

I think that he means 'polarity'.
 
Now many of use would agree that some musical instruments, when recorded with some microphones (and some mic techniques) and played back on some loudspeakers will sound different when the polarity is reversed.
 
But in many recordings the polarity is not consistent from mic to mic or from track to track. Some recording console have a polarity switch on each mic.
 
So you might be able to say that a track or instrument is more enjoyable with this polarity, it's much harder to say that it's correct.

 

[pinnahertz]

The vast majority of musical instruments have a completely symmetrical waveform that sounds identical regardless of polarity. The same is not true of the human voice, particularly male voices, many of which are asymmetrical and do sound slightly different depending on polarity. There is no possible way to determine absolute polarity through the entire recording chain after the fact. In addition, many equalizing and other processes in production that introduce group delay which effectively scrambles "absolute" polarity. Therefore, there is no such thing as absolute polarity in recordings, it is completely arbitrary, makes no difference anyway. There is no means of determining absolute polarity of the entire system without knowing the "reference", which is the acoustic wave in the studio.

 

[pinnahertz]

And the transfer of audio data to a CD cannot change polarity either.

 

[Arpiben]

In addition, many equalizing and other processes in production that introduce group delay which effectively scrambles "absolute" polarity. Therefore, there is no such thing as absolute polarity in recordings, it is completely arbitrary, makes no difference anyway. There is no means of determining absolute polarity of the entire system without knowing the "reference", which is the acoustic wave in the studio.

 
According to your experience, is the Group Delay kept flat as much as possible within 20Hz-20kHz range during Analog/Digital production treatment ?
I am excluding the post-production cases.
Thanks. 

 

[pinnahertz]

One would certainly hope so, but there are too many variables to state an answer definitively.

Why exclude post? It's perhaps the most significant part of the entire signal chain, aside from the reproducing transducer and room.

 

[Arpiben]

Post production was excluded at first step in order to limit the variables as well as not derail from the thread.
Group delay at DAC level was my second step.

 

[pinnahertz]

Group delay at the ADC, DAC and their filters is insignificant in a discussion of maintaining asymmetry or absolute polarity.