[mclaren20]

I dont really know if this is the right place to post this(maybe portable audio?). so mods, if you feel it is thhe wrong board, feel free to move it.


Well, it might be hard to put this in words, but I'll try. In the past few months ive been on the search for a decent 'phone setup. Ive gone through several *portable) CD players, and a few amps. Only now I feel im trained in the art of listening.

I can finally tell the difference between amps, phones, and cd players. Well, For fun the other night I decided to take my grado 225's (unamped for the first time in months) and plug them into the line out of my Sony D-33 and NJB3. well in both players, the volume was at about the level i normaly listen to stuf at, so i decided id listen like this for a while.

well, needless to say i dodnt have to listen for a while to notice that it sucked. it was so airy, unimpactful, and just overall bad. like unlistenable bad.

so, whats the deal? does an amp add that much charecter to an unintresting line out?

 

[lini]

mclaren20: No, if any, an amp should only add a tiny bit of flavour. But what the amp does, in this case, is that it takes the burden of the heavy low impedance load (= the headphone) from the pcdp's line out, replaces that by its own easy-doing load and provides the necessary amplification for the heavy load. So, essentially an amp is a lorry! No, forget the last part.

Grinnings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Geek]

A headphone amplifier should add ABSOLUTELY NO FLAVOR at all to the sound. A good headphone amp will faithfully reproduce TO AN EXACTING DEGREE the signal from the source, adding NO COLORATIONS! I really emphasize this point.

The headphone amp should make the sound as clear, clean, and neutral as possible. It should bring out every last possible aspect of the recording but it won't ADD anything! This is the mark of a great amp: As you move up in fidelity, the sound should become "cleaner," meaning transients (the pluck of a guitar or hit of a drum) are reproduced more accurately; "decay" becomes more accurate (notes fade away just as they do in real life, not just disappearing), "detail," such as the character of the instrument in real life becomes more accurate and pronounced. Frequency extension should improve as well, with no single band of sound being emphasized. Distortion should be markedly lower and reach a point so low that no clipping happens at any volume.

That's how I judge headphone amps - I want the sound to be as natural as possible, with incredible clarity and articulation.

Cheers,
Geek

 

[gpalmer]

I second Lini's post. Your problem is that the line out is only meant to drive easy loads not to actually put out the power to drive real head phones. They just aren't capable of the current demanded of an amplifier.

 

[Ctn]

Doesnt a tube amp constitute colouring

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ctn Doesnt a tube amp constitute colouring

Yes it does, but out of politeness to those who love tubes we call that euphony not coloration!

 

[Hajime]

[size=xx-small]
Quote:

Originally posted by mclaren20 How much *flavor* is an amp supposed to add?

[/size]

Enough to make the music sound good, but not so much that it ruins the original sound of the music.

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek A headphone amplifier should add ABSOLUTELY NO FLAVOR at all to the sound. A good headphone amp will faithfully reproduce TO AN EXACTING DEGREE the signal from the source, adding NO COLORATIONS! I really emphasize this point.

technically, you're absolutely right.
it's just that you need a world class source. and it doesn't meen that you'll enjoy music more that way, doesn't it

you are a man, not an analytical machine (well you are, until it comes with ENJOYING YOURSELF)
and remember, you always listen to "the flavour of headphones".
and did i mention that such setup costs a fortune?! you'll have to be sure you have the perfect source, then to be sure you get the perfect amp.
another thing is, that you don't have the band in the source. you have a digital/analog recorded music that each has its coloration.
reminds me of the sentence: "nothing is real".

at least, nothing is perfect, and when you are already compromising for less then the ideal, it's legitimate to add the flavour/preference you like to "compensate". we all do that.

don't get me wrong - i would love to have something like that setup Nik has

"it's all about the money, it's all about the dam dam deedee dam dam..."

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hajime [size=xx-small] [/size] Enough to make the music sound good, but not so much that it ruins the original sound of the music.

another nice 'n simple way to say that!

 

[gbeard]

In reality, an amp can color the sound in any way you deem necessary to make you happy as a listener. The only way to know which is for you is through direct experience. That takes time and patience, a long learning curve with respect to component matching, and even then, just when you think you know, something grabs you and you flip-flop. Most top tier amps will not color the sound too much, but will "enhance" it with the designer's personal preference for sound.

In the world of audio there is the basic "neutral" (which no one really believes is neutral, its just as close as your ears think it is), and on one side is warm, dark, and euphonic (most people think "tubes" here), on the other side is cool, dry and analytical (most think "solid state" here). There is everything in between those two extremes, and somebody out there likes each of these types of sound. Confused yet

just my .02
gb

 

[JMedeiros]

Just enough to be the "flavor of the month"

 

[gbeard]

Originally by JMedeiros
Quote:

Just enough to be the "flavor of the month"

In my best Hank Hill voice: "Now cut that out Bobby!"

 

[pbirkett]

One thing that I have always wondered though about amps... How do you know that what you hear from your source via the amp is totally uncoloured? In some cases, this can be easy, if you have access to a headphone jack on a component, and the amp sounds exactly the same, but as we know, thats rarely the case.

So whilst I agree that an amplifier is not supposed to add or subtract anything, how do we know whether it does or doesnt? I would go so far as to say ALL amps are coloured, and all that matters is whether you LIKE that colouration, LIKE THE SOUND!

 

[AdamZuf]

yup. it's all electronics. it ain't real anyway.
matching a system is actually to make the mix of right colors so you'll get your favourite color. (on the same stock "headphones" canvas which we all share)

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally posted by pbirkett ... I would go so far as to say ALL amps are coloured, and all that matters is whether you LIKE that colouration, LIKE THE SOUND!

Exactly! Every component is colored in one way or another, it's just a matter of whether you like the coloration or feel that it meets your preconceived impression of neutrality.