How much does your dac/amp combo matter when choosing what headset to buy?

[Thoeri]

Hey!

I started seriously upgrading my headset setup this year. Im currently sitting on a Sennheiser HD 660 S connected to a Rupert Neve RNHP Headphone amp and a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC. I am very happy with this setup, but I still feel like upgrading the headset as it's the cheapest part of the setup while also typically being the most important part. Considering the fact that this will be a big investment and probably my final piece of the setup (for a while atleast), I obviously want to pick carefully. Theres a lot to read on the internet about the different headsets, but I am also wondering if theres a big difference as to what headsets that will work well together with the exact combo of my Gungnir DAC and RNHP amp? Will my DAC and amp boost pretty much any premium headset significantly, or are there specific headsets that will benefit a lot more from these? I am thinking of buying something in the price range of $1.200-1.700. I was considering Denon AH-D9200 or SONY MDR-Z1R, but I would love to here your recommandations aswell.

 

[WorksUnit]

Hi, and welcome.
What sort of music are you listening to?

 

[Thoeri]

I am usually listening to electronic music, but its not the typical mainstream house stuff. Mostly experimental music with a lot of depth, great sound design and good mastering. Typically ambient and downtempo ish.

If that doesn't really tell you anything, you could read about that type of sound design here.

 

[Thoeri]

My main question is really just will my DAC and amp boost pretty much any premium headset significantly, or are there specific headsets that will benefit a lot more from these?

 

[silent-circuit]

Your amp, while a nice, well built unit, is not very powerful.

"Output Power:
As measured with typical headphones, Z=44 Ohm: 3.617 VAC RMS @1kHz = 300mW RMS
16 Ohm typical Load: 1.933 VAC RMS @1kHz = 230mW RMS
150 Ohm typical Load: 5.108 VAC RMS @1kHz = 175mW RMS"

With that in mind you'll need to stick to more efficient headphones (I would not recommend most planars) and fairly low impedance sets - probably no higher than around 32 ohms.

The good news here is, the Denons and Sonys you're considering are both fairly low impedance and reasonably efficient, so you should be fine there. That said, if and when you branch out in the future it will probably be time for a new amp.

 

[Thoeri]

Thanks! That is the info that I needed. Yes I am aware that it's not a premium amp. My headset (Sennheiser HD 660 S) was already considered a huge investment at first. Then I bought the amp, which is considered a nice amp for its price. For my budget, the amp was also quite expensive for me. As I like DACs more than anything and realised it's hard to find a good DAC below the price of the Gungnir I allowed myself to get a more pricey one. And in the end the headset quality is more important than anything, therefore I decided to complete the setup with a very solid headset. Unfortunately I don't think I can keep upgrading after this due to economical reasons but I would assume that my RNHP will still do some work to the sound even though it's not a premium unit.

 

[silent-circuit]

Thanks! That is the info that I needed. Yes I am aware that it's not a premium amp. My headset (Sennheiser HD 660 S) was already considered a huge investment at first. Then I bought the amp, which is considered a nice amp for its price. For my budget, the amp was also quite expensive for me. As I like DACs more than anything and realised it's hard to find a good DAC below the price of the Gungnir I allowed myself to get a more pricey one. And in the end the headset quality is more important than anything, therefore I decided to complete the setup with a very solid headset. Unfortunately I don't think I can keep upgrading after this due to economical reasons but I would assume that my RNHP will still do some work to the sound even though it's not a premium unit.

Oh I'm not saying it's not premium, it appears to be well built with good distortion specs, etc., it just doesn't put out very high wattage. Still suitable for lots of headphones.

 

[Thoeri]

Oh I'm not saying it's not premium, it appears to be well built with good distortion specs, etc., it just doesn't put out very high wattage. Still suitable for lots of headphones.

I unerstand. I don't really know much about Head-Fi yet, but I keep learning new things. Another question I have is, with my RNHP, it will still make a big difference as to wether I go for a 1.7k headset like the Sony one instead of a headset in the price range of 1-1.2k in terms of sound? I assume it will, but if the difference is small due to the amp that I'm using being a more cheaper one, then I would go for a cheaper headset.

 

[silent-circuit]

I unerstand. I don't really know much about Head-Fi yet, but I keep learning new things. Another question I have is, with my RNHP, it will still make a big difference as to wether I go for a 1.7k headset like the Sony one instead of a headset in the price range of 1-1.2k in terms of sound? I assume it will, but if the difference is small due to the amp that I'm using being a more cheaper one, then I would go for a cheaper headset.

Eh. More money in this hobby does not always equal better sound (though in my experience it does up to a point). Don't go in expecting $1700 headphones to be "$500 better sounding" than $1200, or you will likely be disappointed. Build quality and presentation are also big factors in cost.

 

[megabigeye]

Hey!

I started seriously upgrading my headset setup this year. Im currently sitting on a Sennheiser HD 660 S connected to a Rupert Neve RNHP Headphone amp and a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC. I am very happy with this setup, but I still feel like upgrading the headset as it's the cheapest part of the setup while also typically being the most important part. Considering the fact that this will be a big investment and probably my final piece of the setup (for a while atleast), I obviously want to pick carefully. Theres a lot to read on the internet about the different headsets, but I am also wondering if theres a big difference as to what headsets that will work well together with the exact combo of my Gungnir DAC and RNHP amp? Will my DAC and amp boost pretty much any premium headset significantly, or are there specific headsets that will benefit a lot more from these? I am thinking of buying something in the price range of $1.200-1.700. I was considering Denon AH-D9200 or SONY MDR-Z1R, but I would love to here your recommandations aswell.

Are you asking what headphones your amp is powerful enough to drive?
You can use this calculator to easily figure that out.

If you want to calculate it yourself:
If the headphone’s specs are given as dB@1mW, use:
10^(T-E)/10 = power in milliwatts
Where T = Target volume, E = Efficiency in dB @1mW

If the headphone’s specs are given as dB@1V, use:
10^(T-S)/20 = voltage
Where T= target volume, S = sensitivity in dB@1V

My experience is that most people way overestimate how much power their headphones require (and erroneously assume more power sounds better). For instance, my iPhone dongle is capable of “only” one volt, but it’ll drive my HD 650 louder than I like to listen.

 

[Thoeri]

Eh. More money in this hobby does not always equal better sound (though in my experience it does up to a point). Don't go in expecting $1700 headphones to be "$500 better sounding" than $1200, or you will likely be disappointed. Build quality and presentation are also big factors in cost.

Yes I understand that, but from what I have read the Sony one really does sound like a 1,7k headset. If that's the case I would be surprised if a headset worth 700 dollars less would work even better. I know its a bit of a weird question, because every headset work very differently and it's also about personal preference. I just dont know too much about this and I'm still unsure if it's worth to pay the price of the Sony with this setup even after reading so much good about it, compared to buying one that's 500 dollars cheaper for example. I'm thinking my amp could be a bottleneck to the setup but I guess that doesn't really matter as long as it will still work well even on a headset of a very high quality.

Are you asking what headphones your amp is powerful enough to drive?
You can use this calculator to easily figure that out.

If you want to calculate it yourself:
If the headphone’s specs are given as dB@1mW, use:
10^(T-E)/10 = power in milliwatts
Where T = Target volume, E = Efficiency in dB @1mW

If the headphone’s specs are given as dB@1V, use:
10^(T-S)/20 = voltage
Where T= target volume, S = sensitivity in dB@1V

My experience is that most people way overestimate how much power their headphones require (and erroneously assume more power sounds better). For instance, my iPhone dongle is capable of “only” one volt, but it’ll drive my HD 650 louder than I like to listen.

Thank you! In the area where I live there's not much room for testing many different headsets. This means that I probably would have to order it without testing. Yes, this is useful info but I'm also asking whether a specific amp could specifically target certain types of headset more than others (and I'm not talking about just being powerful enough to drive, also about if there are combos that will make the sound much better in any way or if the amp will work just about equally as good on any headset that it can drive).

 

[buke9]

Are you asking what headphones your amp is powerful enough to drive?
You can use this calculator to easily figure that out.

If you want to calculate it yourself:
If the headphone’s specs are given as dB@1mW, use:
10^(T-E)/10 = power in milliwatts
Where T = Target volume, E = Efficiency in dB @1mW

If the headphone’s specs are given as dB@1V, use:
10^(T-S)/20 = voltage
Where T= target volume, S = sensitivity in dB@1V

My experience is that most people way overestimate how much power their headphones require (and erroneously assume more power sounds better). For instance, my iPhone dongle is capable of “only” one volt, but it’ll drive my HD 650 louder than I like to listen.

I agree the Apple USB-C dongle for like $8 is very good and will get the 650’s (6XX’s in my case) pretty loud yes louder than I tend to listen also but is it better than some other amps well haven’t heard everything so don’t know but have a few that I think sound soo much better and yes cost well more than $8 but once you hear better it is hard to un-hear it.
Look if your happy with the $8 dongle great I for one will not tell you that your wrong and need to spend way more money as it is not my place and I’m sure you would tell me to go pack sand or however you would likely tell me to “F” Off and that’s fine.
I just don’t think just making a headphone loud is everything just my opinion.

 

[megabigeye]

1) Yes I understand that, but from what I have read the Sony one really does sound like a 1,7k headset. If that's the case I would be surprised if a headset worth 700 dollars less would work even better. I know its a bit of a weird question, because every headset work very differently and it's also about personal preference. I just dont know too much about this and I'm still unsure if it's worth to pay the price of the Sony with this setup even after reading so much good about it, compared to buying one that's 500 dollars cheaper for example. I'm thinking my amp could be a bottleneck to the setup but I guess that doesn't really matter as long as it will still work well even on a headset of a very high quality.



2) Thank you! In the area where I live there's not much room for testing many different headsets. This means that I probably would have to order it without testing. Yes, this is useful info but I'm also asking whether a specific amp could specifically target certain types of headset more than others (and I'm not talking about just being powerful enough to drive, also about if there are combos that will make the sound much better in any way or if the amp will work just about equally as good on any headset that it can drive).

1) Everybody hears differently, so a headphone that sounds beautiful and natural to one person might not sound that way to someone else. So just because it performs technically well and costs a lot, that’s not a guarantee that it will sound good to you— something much less expensive might sound better. Whenever I read somebody say something is worth the price, I note that it’s in their opinion only. It works for their needs and preferences.

2) You’re talking about what people refer to as “synergy”. Ideally, an amplifier only makes the signal from its input louder, it doesn’t add to or subtract from that signal. That’s called audible transparency. If an amp has high output impedance, lots of distortion or audible noise, that’s when you have to worry about its “synergy” with a specific headphone. How will they interact?
Briefly looking at the specs of your amp, it looks like it should be audibly transparent. There will be no “synergy” to speak of; it should show precisely what any headphones sound like, nothing more or less. Granted, those specs aren’t complete and their might be something weird that we’re not being told.

I hope this helps!

 

[megabigeye]

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to mention it:
Ohm’s Law will tell you how much power your amplifier will make into a specific load (I.e., the headphone’s impedance).

P = V²/Z

Where P = power in watts, V = voltage, and Z = headphone impedance
Note that this equation uses watts and that headphone measurements are given in milliwatts, so you need to be sure to make the appropriate conversion.

Different amp designs behave differently, but I think this should be good enough for a “more-or-less” answer.

 

[Deolum]

My main question is really just will my DAC and amp boost pretty much any premium headset significantly, or are there specific headsets that will benefit a lot more from these?

There is no premium setup sound that magically scales with premium headphones just because it's expensive. Especially those headphones you mentioned like the AH-D9200 are built for very low power amps. You can actually drive them from your phone. Synergy is more important there.

From when i had the RNHP it had very high noisefloor on lower ohm headphones so i can't recommend it with the AH-D9200. The RNHP is pretty crap in my opinion. Not because of the price just because the product is.