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How much difference will a high-end DAC make?
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rangerid
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So I been doing more research and basically led to more questions than answers... My goal ultimately is to improve the sound quality of my headphones and something I came across was using speaker amps for the Susvaras. I am currently driving it with my Manley Absolute tube amp and it sounds great but I don't know if it's driving it to its full potential, 90%, 75%, or less? I keep seeing Bakoon amp-13r being mentioned in multiple places for its great synergy with the Susvara. So now my question is, do you guys think getting a Bakoon will improve sound more than getting a DAC (TT2/DAVE, Wavedream, etc..) ? I can't afford to do both at the same time.
Shahrose
Headphoneus Supremus
Yes, for the Susvara specifically, the amp will make a greater difference at that level. I've read there are better options than the Bakoon in its price range though. Look at the Pass offerings. I have a few friends now who've sold (or are considering selling) everything to replace with more Pass gear after hearing just one product.
JDFlood
100+ Head-Fier
i don’t think I have ever improved my system By decreasing the quality of a component. I haven’t heard the Manley you have, but that is not a piece of equipment I would be abandoning until I had a really good DAC and steamer... I went back a ways on this thread but did not figure out what DAC you are using. in general, when you have pieces like your headphones and amp... you want to complement it with an equivalent quality (when you are talking multiple thousands for a component you can use price as a proxy) the Manley sounds like it should be up to the challege of the headphones. Your streamer and DAC need to be of similar quality. from my experience I would be looking at these. If your amp didn’t have the current to drive the headphones... yes it would make sense to look at a different one. Or if it is too warm. I would stick with amps designed for headphones, not a speaker amp that happens to have taps for headphones... it would work, but in the price category you are working in I would think it would not be likely by optimal.
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Hi rangerid, Hi have the Chord DAVE and Susvara's. The Susvara's don't work too well direct from the DAVE with the DAVE only having 1 to 1.5 Watts output.
So I currently run my Susvara's direct off the speaker taps of my Chord Mezzo 140 Power Amp and my DAVE directly connected via XLR balanced interconnects (to give 6V output) to the Mezzo 140. My DAVE is linked to my Chord Blu MK1 which is connected to my Chord M Scaler all with WAVE Storm BNC interconnects. It sounds fantastic for all genres of music, in fact it's the best sounding headphone system I have heard to date. The Mezzo 140 is giving the Susvara's around 11 Watts (potentially to a max of 15 Watts).
The secret sauce for hard to drive Planar Magnetics like the Susvara and Abyss 1266 from the power the Amp can provide is current and the Amp having a low impedance output with as low distortion as possible and that can provide good to excellent voltage swing.
The Bakoon 13R that seems to drive the Susvara's very well (according to professional reviews and Owners of the 13R and Susvara's) is due to the 13R being a current driven Amp.
I have researched into the subject of Amp pairing with the Susvara's for over a month now, and see a pattern forming from professional reviews, owners reviews etc. that the Susvara needs around 7 to 11 Watts, with the power made up from a high current to low voltage ratio.
Even though the Susvara's perform at quite an even frequency (flat impedance) and therefore have no prominent spikes or dips throughout the music frequency range, they are still a revealing headphone, so I wouldn't skip on a poor quality source.
Hope this helps.
Happy Camper
Headphoneus Supremus
The DAC chip is a converter. Its the rest of the circuitry that makes the sound signal. Power, power, power.
rangerid
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Thanks, very helpful indeed... I actually just remembered a review a while back I read on the Absolute, and as luck would have it, the reviewer was also driving the Susvara AND also compared it with the Bakoon: https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/manley/4/
Conclusion I got was the Manley definitely drove the Susvaras well and differences w the Bakoon are what one would expect from a tube vs ss amp. Now if anything this just adds 1 more item to the list of very expensive gear I'd like to save up for.
If you're using usb check out the Schiit dacs which advertise a new usb solution that is supposed to be superior to coax and aes (claims Mike Moffet, who is an experienced engineer and has been around forever, and who used say USB would never sound like anything other than "ass").
Some Schiit amps sound a little forward, but their Modi multibit doesn't. New to their Bifrost but it sounds fine too. Neither forward or reverse!
Some Schiit amps sound a little forward, but their Modi multibit doesn't. New to their Bifrost but it sounds fine too. Neither forward or reverse!
paradoxper
Headphoneus Supremus
Don't forget, the special sauce is the filter algorithm.
sajunky
Headphoneus Supremus
It is actually important things. Sonically, it depends on your setup. It gives galvanic isolation on the USB connections a things that can eliminate a need to use DDC. Bad things, works with Windows 10, no drivers for win7/8.
Audio GD made a step further, tested in their DDC DI-20 for one year, now implemented in all DACs 2021 versions at no extra cost. It is implenenting a direct USB clock synchronisation with a precise fixed frequency DAC clock, no PLL required. Watch this space, I only seen such things in one high end gear.
My dealer sold me a Wavelight and I had it in less than a week. I am a believer that the dac matters.....a lot actually. I have had 5 from 2018 to today. My Rockna is the best sounding hands down. Other points people have made is it is without question the best to get away from your computer. If funds allow, I highly recommend a streamer. I have the el-cheapo Lumin ($2100 LOL) but having the Rockna hooked up to my NUC through USB and then through my Lumin.....it was laughable how much better the Lumin is.
JDFlood
100+ Head-Fier
All of the Aurender streamers are top notch.
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audioandy
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If you're looking to objectively compare DAC quality, whether or not humans can hear modern DAC differences, I'd suggest not using a tube amplifier to test with. Tube amps usually roll off the high frequencies, and their sound varies depending on what tube you have. I don't understand why people would want this (other than looking really cool), but some like it. I'm not sure if this is only for tube amps or if it applies to solid state / tube hybrids as well. I know the Alex Cavalli hybrid amp both rolls off high frequencies as well as reduces the sharpness of high end frequencies, aka distorts the audio and loses quality. Again I don't know why people would want this, but it's par for the course with tube amps. In search for an objective DAC comparison, I'd suggest a solid state amplifier that doesn't roll off frequencies (aka all solid state amps) and doesn't have variable output depending on the tube used.
iamoneagain
Headphoneus Supremus
Wouldn’t the use of the Chord Hugo Mscaler show that we can hear differences with modern dacs? I know upsampling is just part of the whole dac process. Now when you see new users struggling to hear the difference it adds, shows you at this level it’s subtle. I found my Danacable had more of an effect on sound quality with the Utopia’s than comparing the Focal Arche to the Dave/mscaler. But I didn’t do any back and forth comparisons.
But now that I’ve spent more time with the Arche, I can hear certain tracks I know sounded better on the Dave. But it’s usually just where there’s an isolated bass guitar or drums playing. Overall I don’t miss the Dave.
But now that I’ve spent more time with the Arche, I can hear certain tracks I know sounded better on the Dave. But it’s usually just where there’s an isolated bass guitar or drums playing. Overall I don’t miss the Dave.
But, the tube sound is nice, at least for me. The Chord dacs have a specific high frequency roll off filter you can use as well. So, people like it. I guess one just has to listen to the different oprtions before making a decision. Objectivity is normally a good thing in my book, but the listening experience is definitely subjective by nature, and you can't measure everything. Just look at the Diana thread...hahaha. Measurements are not the end all, absolute thing one must use to determine what components one wants
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