[Duke40]

  As long as they cover the cost of repair I'm not sure I'd abandon a great headphone.  Has anyone had to pay out of pocket for a factory repair?  I wonder what they charge for a new driver.  ???

I have not had to pay the cost of a repair as it is still under warranty ... though I have spent $280 in shipping & insurance so far for sending back to my dealer.
 
Did not have a chance to get to the post office today, so expect that will increase to about $330 in total .... for 2.5 years of LCD3 ownership.

 

[Duke40]

 

   
Though I do find one issue with your poll that if you could kindly update if possible ... the highest choice is 3 times or more ... well, I am on driver failure number 5.
 

 
I am sorry but the format does not allow me to alter the poll once it has been created. I want to say I really feel for you dude, I sent mine back twice and I just can't imagine the heartbreak you have experienced. That said, I think we can agree that yours is a very unusual case, even though I have spoken to a couple other guys with multiple returns like yours. There may be a correlation between hot climate and LCD3 failures.
 
My highest hope for the poll was that it would prove these failures are very rare, so even if our LCD3s break we don't feel like we just paid $2000 for a lemon. But so far the results of the poll seem to prove otherwise, the LCD3s appear to be prone to failure. Unfortunately the poll has received very few votes, so we can't draw conclusions from this small sample size. However the thread is not a total failure, it has highlighted the need for better QC at Audeze.
 
Knowing what I know today, I would think twice about purchasing a pair of LCD3s. I have not heard of similar problems with other Audeze phones. I think Audeze should offer to buy back any phone that has been returned 3 times or more.

 
Sweetmeat ... I think I understand your intentions behind making the poll ... your motivation (if I understand it correctly) was to gain clarity on how frequent the LCD3 experiences issues.
 
For this,  I thank you.    You are trying to build insight around something that is usually mentioned in an ad hoc way ... it is really commendable that you took the initiative to create a poll.
 
Good on you.
 
Though I do wonder how many people are being silent, especially about the driver failures ... why I say this, is that I have never posted publicly before about my own experiences.
I am told that I have a "very long fuse" ... that is, I do not get upset very easily ... though It was driver failure number 5 last night that upset me enough to post.
 
My intention, which everyone gets, is not to criticise Audeze for there sound quality or comfort, the LCD3 is truly a reference quality headphone that brings me joy ... when it actually works.
 
By the way, I do not consider the thread a failure in any sense,  I just think the quality of the poll data will improve over time ... if I may make a suggestion in the main LCD3 threads,
maybe provide a link back to this thread every month or two ... the poll data can only improve as more votes are cast.
 
If I was choosing between a LCD-3F and LCD-X today ... by researching the HeadFi threads (which is my main reference as the feedback provided by this community is very valuable),
and if I typed "failure", "driver" or "failed" as keywords .... well, very little appears in the LCD-2 thread,    very rare, incredibly infrequent in fact for the LCD-X thread,
though it seems to be a constant issue in the LCD-3 threads.   So I would avoid like the plague the LCD-3 and get the LCD-X.

 

[Duke40]

  It's not just the cost to repair them.  It's the PITA aspect, the "I don't have the product to use aspect."
 
I once owned a BMW 540.  Purchased new.  Nice car.  Fassssssst.  Built like crap, at least the one I had.  Back at the dealer for repairs (under warranty) numerous time.  Ended up crapping out for good at 6 years old with only 60k miles on it.  Never bought another one.  Replaced it with a Lexus and a Honda minivan for the wife.  She beats the hell out of the minivan.  It's got 120k miles on it and has only had one repair in the 7 years we have had it, other than routine maintenance.
 
I could spend an hour listing all the high-end audio components I have had over the years that spent more time on a repair bench than in my house.  Now reliability might be even more important than sound quality.  Doesn't matter what it sounds like if it doesn't work.
 
Again, I said previously I would like to upgrade to the LCD-3 but I'm a little spooked now.

I understand the PITA aspect ... going to the Post Office every 6.5 months because of the Audeze Mean Time Between Failure (AMTBF is a new acronym that I have coined)
... well, even my Post Master has noticed this pattern !
 
He says, "has your expensive HP's broken down again?"  (he knows how expensive they are because I always insure & register my postage).
 
I actually went in to the Post Office last week , and he said "Isn't it time??" ... I replied please do not jinx me!    

 

 

[Duke40]

  Has anyone conducted a similar type of survey or poll of owners of other LCD models? Is this an LCD-3 issue? Is this an LCD-3F issue? Is this an Audeze issue?
 
From what I've read across the years it's an LCD-3 thing, and perhaps seems to be a bit more prevalent since the move to the LCD-3F. 
 
What do you all think? 
 
Cheers 

That is an insightful idea ... it would help gain perspective for potential buyers on which models of Audeze to buy ... or avoid like the plague.
 
Audeze is a great company that has,  with their products, brought joy to me and so many others, I wish them every success.
As a consumer, I am truly grateful to this company for improving my enjoyment of music.
 
Just wish they could manufacture a reliable LCD-3

 

[zilch0md]

Even as the poll is currently designed, it reveals that a whopping 61% of LCD-3 owners (with 48 votes submitted thus far) have suffered a driver failure!  I had no idea it was that bad.  
 
An interesting stat would be the average number of failures per owner.  With some people experiencing 5 or more failures, it probably works out to something greater than 1 failure per owner, easily.
 
With these figures, buying a new LCD-3 is just as scary as buying a used one. Going by Duke40's AMTBF figure of 6.5 months, the thing to do would be to buy a used pair that has just been repaired and sell it four or five months later, before it fails again. Rinse. Repeat. 
 
I'm only kidding, of course. The thing to do is to spend your money somewhere other than on Audeze products - until they get their act together.
 
My Audeze LCD-2 Rev.1 has been working fine for over 4 years.  What went wrong with the LCD-3?  
 
I wonder if Audeze even knows why they are failing.
 
Mike

 

[Benny-x]

  My Audeze LCD-2 Rev.1 has been working fine for over 4 years.  What went wrong with the LCD-3?  
 
I wonder if Audeze even knows why they are failing.
 
Mike

A new, precision made driver that's thinner and lighter than all the others? Thin, light, fast, and STRONG often don't mix too well. 
 
I've been mulling over the LCD-3C vs. 3F for a while. I've got the 2.2s and they're great, so thinking of moving on up the line sounds great, but now seeing this has me scared. And I also just found out that the 2015 3Fs have a different drivers then the first run of 3Fs, and from the 3Cs. I'm not referring to the Fazor part, but the driver itself. And they all sound different and the 2015 3F is supposed to the best. 2015 though is just a rough estimation of when the change occured, there isn't an official annoucement about it anywhere. I'm all for continuous improvement, but not undocumented stuff.
 
A few posts above it was talking about looking for commonalities like Bal. vs. SE, amp type, climate & humidity, manufacturing date, and so on to really make this poll useful for us and for Audeze. But with the dirvers themselves having gone through so many revisions and there being no note of it on the headphones, at least that the end user can tell of, there's basically nothing we can glean from this. Maybe "stay the f*c* away until the smoke clears, for sure", but that's about it. 

 

[potkettleblack]

I'm tempted to unsubscribe from this thread.
 
 
I'm still saving for my next buy and this makes me sad that the 3f's may just be a no-no ...
 
 

 

[IHMEYERS]

I am probably a little older than some on the board (54) and have been into high end audio since I was able to afford it (late 20's).  I can rattle off a laundry list of amazing audio products I have owned built by very small manufacturers that have broken down.  Some I was able to get repaired, others not.  Maybe some of the names are familiar:
 
 
Futterman tube amp.  Fantastic sound, brilliant designer, built like ****.  Broke down every few months.  Company long gone.
 
Velodyne:  Great sub, those servo amps go bad within 10 years or so.  Velodyne doesn't allow repairs.  Just had mine replaced by manufacturer for $500.
 
Mod Squad:  Great phono amp, quit working.  Company long gone.
 
Audio Alchemy.  Pretty good / cheap digital products.  Can't get them repaired now with company dead.
 
Atmasphere:  Terrific OTL amps, tubes failed spectacularly scaring the crap out of my wife when they did (no top cover).
 
Genesis Audio:  Great speakers, built-in subs amps all fail.  Check every listing out there,  almost all have bad sub amp.
 
Revel Speakers;  I recently bought a pair of F50s that a dealer friend upgraded to F52s.  Told me all the drivers go bad.  Revel knows it was a manufacturing issue.  My friend told me they told him 100% of the drivers would fail, which is why he just proactively replaced them.
 
AV123:  Great subs, have had amp problems.   Designer is convicted felon and the business is long gone.  Lucky to have a good speaker repair shop near me.
 
 
 
My point???  OK my point is when you're into high-end audio, like we are and you buy something from a cottage manufacturer, you run a huge risk that sooner rather than later they won't be around to fix it.  At one point I had stuff in the shop so often wife complained  "I really like our stereo but it never works.  Why can't we just buy a Sony like our friends?  It might not sound as good but at least it always works."
 
Audeze is not Sony or Panasonic or even Audio Research, and I am not singling them out.  Businesses of that size have a pretty high failure rate in time.  It's REALLY hard out there to start, grow and sustain a business.  Many time you're talking about virtual one or two man enterprises.  If one of the key guys gets sick, or disenchanted or divorced that could be it for the business.  I should know, I am a serial entrepenuer  If a specialty manufacturer goes out oif business it is usually very hard to get a product of theirs serviced.  As audiophiles we kind of know that going in and to some extent accept that risk...But if an item is KNOWN to have quality control issues beforehand we really roll the dice that we are going to wind up with an expensive paperweight at some point in the not-to-distant-future.  If there are issues with the fazors, I don't think they knew that when they shipped them to market.   I don' think they cut corners; I just think that there's a problem with a part or even the design that needs to be worked out.  I doubt the real failure rate is 60% but based upon the feedback it's probably not 1% either.
 
I still want a pair of LCD-3s.  I don't think I can buy a pair of fazors right now given everything I've read/heard.  My sense is the earlier versions don't have as many issues but I'd like to hear people weigh in.  At the end of the day it comes down to how much $$$ am I willing to risk on something that I might have for only a few years of enjoyment.

 

[mscott58]

  I am probably a little older than some on the board (54) and have been into high end audio since I was able to afford it (late 20's).  I can rattle off a laundry list of amazing audio products I have owned built by very small manufacturers that have broken down.  Some I was able to get repaired, others not.  Maybe some of the names are familiar:
 
 
Futterman tube amp.  Fantastic sound, brilliant designer, built like ****.  Broke down every few months.  Company long gone.
 
Velodyne:  Great sub, those servo amps go bad within 10 years or so.  Velodyne doesn't allow repairs.  Just had mine replaced by manufacturer for $500.
 
Mod Squad:  Great phono amp, quit working.  Company long gone.
 
Audio Alchemy.  Pretty good / cheap digital products.  Can't get them repaired now with company dead.
 
Atmosphere:  Terrific OTL amps, tubes failed spectacularly scaring the crap out of my wife when they did (no top cover).
 
Genesis Audio:  Great speakers, built-in subs amps all fail.  Check every listing out there,  almost all have bad sub amp.
 
Revel Speakers;  I recently bought a pair of F50s that a dealer friend upgraded to F52s.  Told me all the drivers go bad.  Revel knows it was a manufacturing issue.  My friend told me they told him 100% of the drivers would fail, which is why he just proactively replaced them.
 
AV123:  Great subs, have had amp problems.   Designer is convicted felon and the business is long gone.  Lucky to have a good speaker repair shop near me.
 
 
 
My point???  OK my point is when you're into high-end audio, like we are and you buy something from a cottage manufacturer, you run a huge risk that sooner rather than later they won't be around to fix it.  At one point I had stuff in the shop so often wife complained  "I really like our stereo but it never works.  Why can't we just buy a Sony like our friends?  It might not sound as good but at least it always works."
 
Audeze is not Sony or Panasonic or even Audio Research, and I am not singling them out.  Businesses of that size have a pretty high failure rate in time.  It's REALLY hard out there to start, grow and sustain a business.  Many time you're talking about virtual one or two man enterprises.  If one of the key guys gets sick, or disenchanted or divorced that could be it for the business.  I should know, I am a serial entrepenuer  If a specialty manufacturer goes out oif business it is usually very hard to get a product of theirs serviced.  As audiophiles we kind of know that going in and to some extent accept that risk...But if an item is KNOWN to have quality control issues beforehand we really roll the dice that we are going to wind up with an expensive paperweight at some point in the not-to-distant-future.  If there are issues with the fazors, I don't think they knew that when they shipped them to market.   I don' think they cut corners; I just think that there's a problem with a part or even the design that needs to be worked out.  I doubt the real failure rate is 60% but based upon the feedback it's probably not 1% either.
 
I still want a pair of LCD-3s.  I don't think I can buy a pair of fazors right now given everything I've read/heard.  My sense is the earlier versions don't have as many issues but I'd like to hear people weigh in.  At the end of the day it comes down to how much $$$ am I willing to risk on something that I might have for only a few years of enjoyment.

+1 to this. I've been into 2-channel stereo for much longer than head-fi and have had many of the issues above.
 
I'd add to the list California Audio Design, Acurus and Rega (at least they're still in business!). 
 
Laughed when I saw both Futterman and Atmasphere on this list. Both OTL's but when an Atmasphere tube blows (it happens!) it sucks, but when a Futterman tube blows there's a fair chance it takes a speaker with it. 
 
Cheers 

 

[Benny-x]

If there are issues with the fazors, I don't think they knew that when they shipped them to market.   I don' think they cut corners; I just think that there's a problem with a part or even the design that needs to be worked out.  I doubt the real failure rate is 60% but based upon the feedback it's probably not 1% either.
 
I still want a pair of LCD-3s.  I don't think I can buy a pair of fazors right now given everything I've read/heard.  My sense is the earlier versions don't have as many issues but I'd like to hear people weigh in.  At the end of the day it comes down to how much $$$ am I willing to risk on something that I might have for only a few years of enjoyment.

 
Only in reference to this part, the Fazors haven't been what was found to be defective/having a high failure rate. The issue is present across both LCD-3C (original) and LCD-3F (current) versions. So, even if you get the originals, you're still looking at a gamble if you go by what we've seen here.
 
Like you said, it's not going to be a 60% failure rate, that's crazy, but it's not one either. I also agree that it's not a corner cutting thing, or at least a corner that anyone would have imagined had any connect to driver reliability when it was crossed of the list. Audeze has a good track record and are good to deal with. Hopefully this thread provides information for them to look in certain areas for a cause and provides the buyers adequate insight into the gamble of the purchase.
 
As for cottage industry, that was an interesting comparison and I had never looked at it that way. I don't group Audeze in that DIY gone pro segment anymore, though they certainly used to be. Now they're a grown up company doing grown up work, albeit a young one and one that still needs to work some major kinks out. Who knows, maybe they switched suppliers, changed where they stored them, got a new composite supplier, and something else all for the LCD-3s and they can't nail down which is the contributing factor. Lets just hope they're looking in here and seeing what's up. They're the ones with the official numbers, so they know what's going on, or at least they should if they're keeping good records.

 

[IHMEYERS]

   
As for cottage industry, that was an interesting comparison and I had never looked at it that way. I don't group Audeze in that DIY gone pro segment anymore, though they certainly used to be. Now they're a grown up company doing grown up work, albeit a young one and one that still needs to work some major kinks out. Who knows, maybe they switched suppliers, changed where they stored them, got a new composite supplier, and something else all for the LCD-3s and they can't nail down which is the contributing factor. Lets just hope they're looking in here and seeing what's up. They're the ones with the official numbers, so they know what's going on, or at least they should if they're keeping good records.

 
 
Agree 100%.  They make REALLY good phones.  Hopefully they will figure out what's going on with the drivers. 
 
If they DO know something it would be nice if they could post a range of serial #s that are/may be impacted.  It's good for both them and us.  Until I know that I have to assume that all LCD-3s available for resale are suspect and I bet that isn't truly the case.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

Wow. At that price point, LCD-3 should be practically fail-safe.

 

[mscott58]

  Wow. At that price point, LCD-3 should be practically fail-safe.

Although using that logic a Ferrari or Lambo should never have to go into the shop, which is not the case at all. With great art and craftsmanship unfortunately come certain risks, and this is especially true with lower-run products. 
 
If Audeze didn't stand behind their products, that would be much more of an issue. While I haven't had any failure issues, I have had to interact with the Audeze CS group a number of times and they are highly responsive and professional IMO. 
 
Cheers 

 

[zilch0md]

Knowing that lots of high-end audio companies have gone under with products that failed frequently doesn't make Audeze look any better to me when there are so many flagship headphones suffering no failures.

In other words, this may be a niche industry, but I can still have my cake and eat it, too. We really don't have to put up with component failures, charitably enabling dysfunctional designs, to enjoy superb audio.

 

[Benny-x]

 
If they DO know something it would be nice if they could post a range of serial #s that are/may be impacted.  It's good for both them and us.  Until I know that I have to assume that all LCD-3s available for resale are suspect and I bet that isn't truly the case.

That's what I think too. If they could nail anything down and post it, that would shovel loads of buyer confidence back onto their plate.
 
From the sounds of it, the failures at least range from old to new, though, so that range is looking like beginning to end right now. 
 
Now that I think about it, and like was posted above about this thread being linked to the various LCD-3 threads every now and then to boost contributions and effectiveness, Audeze should know about it too. Has anyone told them this thread and this suspicion exists? Hopefully they've got the records to know, but there is pretty well documented chatter on LCD-3C and 3F problems all over head-fi and elsewhere.