How Many Times Have Your LCD3 Headphones Been Returned to Audeze for Servicing (RMA)?
Jun 18, 2015 at 12:53 AM Post #16 of 543

KyPeN

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 5, 2003
Posts
357
Likes
27
  I'm not sure what directing them to this thread would achieve or what is hoped to be gained.  I'm not saying do or don't, I'm just unclear to what end.
 
...
 
QC is a helluva an animal.  More so when you are dealing with fiddly small audio drivers.  Something has to be changed with their front end process and I am confident that they are pursuing that fix, however, right now what's done is done.  I personally still really like Audeze and I will continue to support them.  I wish them nothing but success.

To what end:  To get them to revise their production strategy.  It won't be the first time.  Back in 2009, they had driver failures with LCD3s, halted production, and fixed it.  See the comments here.
 
QC is a helluva beast.  Hell, it's my job, but in software.  However, a company has a very limited budget and QC is entirely a function of diminishing returns that hits real hard, real fast.  So, they have to prioritize the most important issues.  If they think that these cases are isolated (entirely possible) and haven't done analytics on the failure rates, production dates, etc. (also, entirely possible), then they might not be able to solve the problem or even be aware of it.  Customers help QC by floating the most important, most prevalent issues to the top.  Identifying what your customers care the most about is a really hard problem.  
 
Let's help Audeze, which will in turn, help us.  This should just be step 1.  Next is to find consistencies.  LCD3 is a great start.  Is it mostly fazor or non?  Manufacture date?  Balanced vs. single ended?  What about listening habits like frequency of amplifier power cycling with the headphone plugged in?  There are a lot of variables to isolate.  
 
To answer your question:  to the end that we can help improve the product, and therefore, our own (and others!) experience with it.
 
Jun 18, 2015 at 4:36 AM Post #17 of 543

TheGrumpyOldMan

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 19, 2012
Posts
504
Likes
51
I've had my LCD-3 since January 2012 (thus obviously "classic"), no problem so far...
*knocks on wood, hoping not to crack it*
 
Jun 19, 2015 at 2:11 PM Post #19 of 543

KyPeN

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 5, 2003
Posts
357
Likes
27
I just got a response from Audeze after a couple correspondences and their representative was very polite, as always.  They will be paying my roundtrip shipping costs for the repair and she assured me they would diagnose the root cause of the problem and get back to me.
 
Jun 24, 2015 at 1:11 PM Post #20 of 543

Duke40

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Posts
142
Likes
42
 
  It will be biased towards people with more replacements - people love to complain on the internet!


This bias may be partially offset by LCD3s that are so new they haven't broke yet.
 
So far it appears you are correct, but the vote count is too low to draw any reasonable conclusions. Everybody vote!

 
Sweetmeat ... I like your idea of a poll ... I assume it was to obtain a better perspective on how bad the LCD3 failure rate is ... or if it being put out of proportion.
 
For trying to gain some perspective, I commend you.
 
Though I do find one issue with your poll that if you could kindly update if possible ... the highest choice is 3 times or more ... well, I am on driver failure number 5
in the last 2.5 years of being a LCD-3 owner.   The first 4 failures were with the LCD-3C, it was replaced with a LCD-3F which just failed, making a total of 5 failures.
 
 
My first LCD-3C experienced 4 driver failures (a mix of left and right) .... so the average ... Audeze Mean Time Between Failure (AMTBF) for drivers is 6.5 months.
Also had a SE cable failure ... which was replaced with a cable which was dead on arrival. So 2 faulty cables.
A total of 6 issues or incidents in 2 years for the LCD-3C.  
The wood box is also poor quality ... when I opened my LCD-3 for the very first time , the hinge on the wood box broke.
I should have taken that as an omen of things to come,  though I am not counting that as an incident, do not want to appear picky.
 
 
I also find the Quality Control of Audeze very poor when performing repairs.
Remember sending it in for a Right Driver failure .... and it came back with a loose Left XLR connector, about 5mm movement away from the Left earcup.
So Audeze fix the Right side of my HP ... and it comes back with damage to the Left side ???
 
 
In December 2014 this was replaced with a new LCD-3F (came from my dealer), which just tonight experienced a failed Left Driver ... only 6.5 months old
... so the 6.5 months Audeze Mean Time Between Failure is consistent.
So, tonight, at the 2.5 year mark ... I am on issue number 7, total driver failure number is 5.
 
 
I had hoped that the driver failure issues was mainly for the LCD-3C ... though apparently it is still evident with the LCD-3F.
 
Had hoped it was a manufacturing issue which was resolved in the first year (or two) ... though newer LCD-3F still experience a high failure rate, which is disgraceful. 

 
 
I have never had any HP, Speaker, fail .... ever.
DAC's or AMPs ... never.
Some electronics are more than 10 years old and they never fail like Audeze ... actually tonight I had to switch back to AKG-701's that I purchased early 2005 (?).
 
I treat my gear with respect, listen at low to moderate volumes.
Do not use the LCD-3 for travel.
Used with appropriate sized powered amps ... 1 or 2 Watt.
This is a reference piece of equipment, so it is in my own best interest to treat it with respect, which I do ... still it continually breaks down.
 
It is not just the disappointment of a product that is so unreliable when it breaks down , it also the continued escalating costs of shipping & insurance for a product which as far as reliability goes is .... shameful.
 
My average uptime ... that is when I have the LCD-3 at home (when it is not travelling around the world continually being repaired) is just .... 80%.
 
I think I have a fairly high tolerance and even up to incident number 6 I was still considering getting an Audeze LCD-X as I find the Audeze sound quality simply outstanding.
Also really find Audeze extremely comfortable.
 
Though, this last incident (number 7), which is driver failure number 5 has me rethinking that thought of buying anymore Audeze (like the LCD-X) very strongly ... I have had enough.
 
While I do strongly love both the comfort & sound quality of the LCD-3 ...as far as Audeze reliability is concerned, the best word for it is ..... shameful.  
 
I am disgusted. 
 
Jun 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM Post #21 of 543

IHMEYERS

Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Posts
98
Likes
19
LCD-3 Quality control issues definitely having an effect on the resale market.  I can see it and a used high-end dealer friend of mine confirmed it.  You can pick up a pair w/Fazor for close to $1300 if you shop around.  Previously you'd pay 20% off retail (net about $1500).
 
Don't get me wrong, I think they're great phones.  I have a pair of LCD-2s and want to upgrade but I have been scared off by the failure rate.  I don't know that the poll is exactly a representative sample but there are a lot of customers out there that have had problems with the new drivers.  The LCD2 I have I bought 2nd hand so it's a few years old now and hasn't had the smallest of issues.  Hope I didn't just jinx it.
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Jun 24, 2015 at 6:46 PM Post #22 of 543

Rico613

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
May 5, 2012
Posts
1,209
Likes
100
As long as they cover the cost of repair I'm not sure I'd abandon a great headphone.  Has anyone had to pay out of pocket for a factory repair?  I wonder what they charge for a new driver.  ???
 
Jun 24, 2015 at 6:56 PM Post #23 of 543

Sweetmeat

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Posts
349
Likes
75
   
Though I do find one issue with your poll that if you could kindly update if possible ... the highest choice is 3 times or more ... well, I am on driver failure number 5.
 

 
I am sorry but the format does not allow me to alter the poll once it has been created. I want to say I really feel for you dude, I sent mine back twice and I just can't imagine the heartbreak you have experienced. That said, I think we can agree that yours is a very unusual case, even though I have spoken to a couple other guys with multiple returns like yours. There may be a correlation between hot climate and LCD3 failures.
 
My highest hope for the poll was that it would prove these failures are very rare, so even if our LCD3s break we don't feel like we just paid $2000 for a lemon. But so far the results of the poll seem to prove otherwise, the LCD3s appear to be prone to failure. Unfortunately the poll has received very few votes, so we can't draw conclusions from this small sample size. However the thread is not a total failure, it has highlighted the need for better QC at Audeze.
 
Knowing what I know today, I would think twice about purchasing a pair of LCD3s. I have not heard of similar problems with other Audeze phones. I think Audeze should offer to buy back any phone that has been returned 3 times or more.
 
Jun 24, 2015 at 6:57 PM Post #24 of 543

IHMEYERS

Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Posts
98
Likes
19
It's not just the cost to repair them.  It's the PITA aspect, the "I don't have the product to use aspect."
 
I once owned a BMW 540.  Purchased new.  Nice car.  Fassssssst.  Built like crap, at least the one I had.  Back at the dealer for repairs (under warranty) numerous time.  Ended up crapping out for good at 6 years old with only 60k miles on it.  Never bought another one.  Replaced it with a Lexus and a Honda minivan for the wife.  She beats the hell out of the minivan.  It's got 120k miles on it and has only had one repair in the 7 years we have had it, other than routine maintenance.
 
I could spend an hour listing all the high-end audio components I have had over the years that spent more time on a repair bench than in my house.  Now reliability might be even more important than sound quality.  Doesn't matter what it sounds like if it doesn't work.
 
Again, I said previously I would like to upgrade to the LCD-3 but I'm a little spooked now.
 
Jun 24, 2015 at 7:41 PM Post #27 of 543

Sweetmeat

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Posts
349
Likes
75
  As long as they cover the cost of repair I'm not sure I'd abandon a great headphone.  Has anyone had to pay out of pocket for a factory repair?  I wonder what they charge for a new driver.  ???

 
So far I have not been charged for the cost of repair but I have paid $50 each time for shipping.
 
And I have sometimes used the coping mechanism of equating the failure-prone LCD3 with my muscle car, on which I have spent many dollars to replace many broken items. However I realize they are nothing alike except for the rush I get when I drop the throttle.
 
Jun 24, 2015 at 8:22 PM Post #29 of 543

mscott58

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Posts
3,500
Likes
1,134
Has anyone conducted a similar type of survey or poll of owners of other LCD models? Is this an LCD-3 issue? Is this an LCD-3F issue? Is this an Audeze issue?
 
From what I've read across the years it's an LCD-3 thing, and perhaps seems to be a bit more prevalent since the move to the LCD-3F. 
 
What do you all think? 
 
Cheers 
 
Jun 25, 2015 at 3:01 AM Post #30 of 543

Duke40

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 20, 2011
Posts
142
Likes
42
  LCD-3 Quality control issues definitely having an effect on the resale market.  I can see it and a used high-end dealer friend of mine confirmed it.  You can pick up a pair w/Fazor for close to $1300 if you shop around.  Previously you'd pay 20% off retail (net about $1500).
 
Don't get me wrong, I think they're great phones.  I have a pair of LCD-2s and want to upgrade but I have been scared off by the failure rate.  I don't know that the poll is exactly a representative sample but there are a lot of customers out there that have had problems with the new drivers.  The LCD2 I have I bought 2nd hand so it's a few years old now and hasn't had the smallest of issues.  Hope I didn't just jinx it.
smily_headphones1.gif


I noticed last December in OZ, a used LCD3 was available for about $AUD1000  ($USD 780) and the guy had to relist it a few times to sell it, I dont think it had any warranty left).
 
Personally, I would be very reluctant to sell the LCD3 especially one with any history of failure ... actually my conscience would not allow it.
I am just lucky that I absolutely love the sound :)
 
By the way ... Thank You to everyone who has commented after my very long and detailed post, which was written very late at night ... you all get the point that I was trying to articulate
... that the sound quality is outstanding (and I love the comfort) ... not trying to be a hater,  I absolutely love it !!!  .... but my issues for the LCD3 is solely focussed on it's abysmal driver failure rate is shameful.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top