[bigshot]

That's kind of true of most modern home audio electronics... if it sounds clearly different, odds are it's broken.

 

[dazzerfong]

Even for these, they have to be pretty much fundamentally broken to be distinguishable in a blind test. I am talking about SINADs of 50 dB or even lower, and that's depending on the power they are providing and the level you are listening to music because distortion detection is affected by the volume you listen.

Output impedance. That's all really - just this one parameter makes a bigger difference than any other metric I can think of in at the top of my head.

 

[bigshot]

That's just using the wrong tool for the wrong purpose. Like using a straight head screwdriver on a hex screw. With proper impedances the amp wouldn't be a problem. It's a broken way of using an amp.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Output impedance. That's all really - just this one parameter makes a bigger difference than any other metric I can think of in at the top of my head.

It makes a difference in reactive loads (and the level of difference depends on the specific impedance curve of the transducer), resistive loads do not change FR when connected to variable or high output z, so it would depend on the load.

 

[dazzerfong]

It makes a difference in reactive loads (and the level of difference depends on the specific impedance curve of the transducer), resistive loads do not change FR when connected to variable or high output z, so it would depend on the load.

True, and there's some designs that mitigate it, but it's a fact that most dynamic drivers have a wildly swinging curve.

That's just using the wrong tool for the wrong purpose. Like using a straight head screwdriver on a hex screw. With proper impedances the amp wouldn't be a problem. It's a broken way of using an amp.

You physically cannot open a hex screw with a straight head. You can, however, plug a low-impedance headphone into a WA7 amplifier, which has a whopping 30 ohms in lo-Z mode. Last I checked, the WA7 is a headphone amplifier.

That being said, no real reason to use such high output impedance unless you're that concerned about output power but don't have the chops to manage power output efficiently.

 

[bigshot]

I've tried to use a straight screwdriver on phillips head. How is that?

By the way, if you have a small straight jeweler's screwdriver you can shove one end of it into a corner of the hex screw head and pivot it into an opposite corner, and if you push down hard enough, you might get enough grip on it to budge the hex head screw! I've done it!

 

[dazzerfong]

I've tried to use a straight screwdriver on phillips head. How is that?

I'd agree, except that the WA7's marketing very clearly states:

Headphones impedance : 8-600 Ohms

Have fun with an IEM plugged into the WA7.

Point is, there's plenty of questionable products out there. There shouldn't be a reason for them to be this way, but here we are.

 

[bigshot]

Is it the amp's fault? Or is it the headphone's fault? Which one is the villain here.

Neither of them. You're just using the wrong tool for the wrong purpose. The headphone needs a different amp, and the amp needs different headphones.

Snatch the pebble from my hand, grasshopper.

Personally, I'd just use something relatively standard and interchangeable. But that's me. I'm not an audiophile who wants the oddest and most complicated way of doing things. Maybe the audiophile that buys odd equipment like that is broken and the equipment itself is fine!?

 

[RitzyBusiness]

I wouldn't say it produces better sound(At least better than sound + noise), but it is a better piece of tech over the USB card in my first gen Bifrost MB. It eliminates the noise of my crappy source (my PC) without the need of adding a bunch of expensive things in the chain. USB was unusable before since there would be audible static and garbage, and without regards to if it was the selected source.

I never liked toslink, despite it being silent as the blackest nights. Something about it always sounded off, no matter how many times i've tried it. That said i've been stuck with it for a few years on my bifrost since my PC is my only source. This USB card is at least silent as the blackest nights at ear busting volumes, even if not at maximum output of my amp.

 

[bigshot]

You're not breaking down the problem to figure it out. Digital audio is digital audio no matter what wire it passes through. If you understood how it worked better, you'd be better able to diagnose problems. You may have had problems if it wasn't just placebo effect, but it wasn't due to the format itself.

 

[Davesrose]

I'm not sure how there can be arguments about different interconnects with digital stereo. When some of the earliest were invented they had less bandwidth speeds, but still could stay bit perfect. Now our digital standards are for way higher bandwidth of deep color 8K (4K high frame rate) video, lossless surround sound connections. The only argument I've seen in this thread about "inferior" USB are products that don't meet the minimum USB specs (which you'd think if they're audio centered, they should have met those). There may be some auditory differences going from one system to another due to the fact that systems aren't all set the same. There can be differences in levels, and most importantly with sources, I find they all do have some form of EQ/DSP even as a transport.

 

[bokononista]

A little bit old thread, but i want to add the information about my experience with upgrading my Bifrost 1 to Unison USB (from GEN5) for the people searching for some informations in this regard.
I have to say i expected little to none difference because i thought GEN5 is good solution and i had no problem with it. I am suprised how much audible difference there is. The sound is more smooth now with a lot less harshness (i didnt realize it is there), its more organic and fluid, more analog character. Now i can turn the volume much higher without fatique I had before. I use Bifrost with Valhalla 2 and T1.1. Unison USB also changed my tubes preferences. I dont know if there was some problem with GEN5 or not, but difference is really audible. Maybe there are some negatives - its about audio setup synergy. I miss the sharpness of GEN5 sometimes (I dont know why but i prefered playing Yes albums with the GEN 5. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[castleofargh]

A little bit old thread, but i want to add the information about my experience with upgrading my Bifrost 1 to Unison USB (from GEN5) for the people searching for some informations in this regard.
I have to say i expected little to none difference because i thought GEN5 is good solution and i had no problem with it. I am suprised how much audible difference there is. The sound is more smooth now with a lot less harshness (i didnt realize it is there), its more organic and fluid, more analog character. Now i can turn the volume much higher without fatique I had before. I use Bifrost with Valhalla 2 and T1.1. Unison USB also changed my tubes preferences. I dont know if there was some problem with GEN5 or not, but difference is really audible. Maybe there are some negatives - its about audio setup synergy. I miss the sharpness of GEN5 sometimes (I dont know why but i prefered playing Yes albums with the GEN 5. Thats my 2 cents.

I have no idea how they sound, and maybe all you say is justified. But we can't rule out some severe issues with your experience.
In term of initial bias, if you really expected little to no difference, why waste 200$ on it, and bother with packing the DAC, sending it back and waiting for it to come back?
Then there is the lack of opportunity to make any sort of direct comparison. That's a big flaw in a listening experience.

Again, that alone does not demonstrate everything you feel is imagined or poorly remembered. And ultimately, if you're enjoying your system even more for whatever reason, that's a pretty cool ending for you. But it's very hard for me and I'm sure for many others, to put much confidence into this testimony.

 

[bokononista]

I have no idea how they sound, and maybe all you say is justified. But we can't rule out some severe issues with your experience.
In term of initial bias, if you really expected little to no difference, why waste 200$ on it, and bother with packing the DAC, sending it back and waiting for it to come back?
Then there is the lack of opportunity to make any sort of direct comparison. That's a big flaw in a listening experience.

Again, that alone does not demonstrate everything you feel is imagined or poorly remembered. And ultimately, if you're enjoying your system even more for whatever reason, that's a pretty cool ending for you. But it's very hard for me and I'm sure for many others, to put much confidence into this testimony.

I did installation myself, so there was about an 1/2 hour between listening. I know about expectation bias a lot, thats the reason I am sceptical about my perception in audio stuff and my memory. But this time it is obvious, I am not deaf. I dont know if this upgrade worth $150, for me, it is as a hobby i dont measure with money, it was my choice and i did that even with expectation of little to none sound difference - just for my curiosity. Still have both cards, swap is easy, could be done even faster (without reassemble). But 1/2 hour was really enough Its obvious that i am curious why it is possible - really didnt expect it.

 

[bigshot]

Not a blind comparison? CHECK! Not direct A/B switched? CHECK! Not level matched? CHECK! Nearly a half hour between samples? CHECK!
Sounds like a $150 placebo/perceptual error upgrade to me.