How does the Warranty work in the US, legally speaking? Can a producer refuse to offer it?
May 24, 2016 at 5:50 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 21

Giogio

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Hi guys.

While preparing my new Comparison which finally extended to ALL Bluetooth Headphones on Earth (apart for the very cheap, very bad, irrelevant unknown models), for a total of something between 100 and 120 Headphones, which is kind of crazy but what's done is done, well, I had to import a couple of HPs from the US.
One is defective.
The seller refuses to take it back.
The producer (I prefer to avoid naming them now, maybe later, and I will definitely tell the story on my Article, because not only their expensive HP is one of the worst sounding on the planet, but the contact was among the most unpleasant on a human and professional base) offers 2 years warranty, and there is an Online Form to register your product. In the online form is nowhere written that you have a limited time before registering.
But there is a Warranty Card on the Carrying Case, "hidden" in a compartment with the audio and usb cable, where I did not look till today, because I never needed any cable.
Today I wanted to register to claim the warranty, and I looked for this card in what seemed to me the most reasonable place, the transparent plastic bag where the Quick Start Guide was.
I was already thinking "crap, it's not here, did I lose it or was it never here?", and then I just looked everywhere and found it with the cables.
There I have read that I have 30 days to register, from the purchase day.
Well, the 30 days are over.
I wrote them, without expecting much because as said it was probably the most frustrating and horrible experience of Customer Care in my entire life, and indeed I got no answer once again.

I now wonder, can it really happen in the USA (not a Country Famous for Consumer Rights) that a producer can refuse to offer warranty if the product is not registered within a given time?
In the EU the registration is not needed at all, the warranty is a MUST, nobody can EVER refuse it and nobody can force people to register.
I just cannot believe that for not having seen this warranty card till now and be on my 45 day instead of 30 after the purchase (although I have received the thing 34 days ago) I have no warranty!? My mind just refuses to accept that this can be legal anywhere on the universe.

Any feedback?
 
May 24, 2016 at 10:58 PM Post #2 of 21

PurpleAngel

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Where are you located?
 
Do you have the sale receipt and did you fax them a copy of it, to show when (and from whom) you bought the headphones?
 
May 24, 2016 at 11:56 PM Post #3 of 21

ProtegeManiac

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giogio /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I now wonder, can it really happen in the USA (not a Country Famous for Consumer Rights) that a producer can refuse to offer warranty if the product is not registered within a given time?

 
Really? Because I've seen people there just return items because they changed their minds. Or they found a lower price elsewhere, and right now if the store puts an item for sale within a certain number of days since you bought it, they refund the balance. I've never seen returns as painless as in the US - we just walk up to a counter and get it done within five minutes. There are even those people in WalMart returning camping equipment the day after a long weekend and you can clearly see some specks of dirt on them but they're accepted anyway. RMA? Easy - we just ship things back and get a new one after a few days. I mean, hell, people step on the wrong pedal by mistake, and the Senate gets in on the action and Toyota has to recall cars only to find out that the gas pedal nor the throttle don't move on their own.
 
If anything, if now some manufacturers aren't as willing to grant some flexibility in their warranty terms, it's because of people like the ones in WalMart who just "borrowed" the camping equipment. There was also a thread here before started by a guy who was banned by Amazon after he bought and returned over 30 headphones.
 
By contrast, over here you either call the manager and prove that it's defective first, and then escalate into an argument. Or for computer parts for example we have to call up the distributor, and more often than not have another argument, and then go to the government regulator and get a case going. Oh and regarding the brouhaha with Toyota in the US, we have the same ongoing drama with Mitsubishi over here, and the guy who filed a case with the government was seen window shopping for a new Mitsubishi SUV, making it seem like he just wants them to give him a new one after he crashed the first.
 
May 25, 2016 at 4:37 PM Post #4 of 21

Giogio

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  Where are you located?
 
Do you have the sale receipt and did you fax them a copy of it, to show when (and from whom) you bought the headphones?

I am located in the EU, yes I have the purchase invoice and they know it, and they also know the seller refuses to take responsibility.
Anyway, they answered now that the real problem for them is that I did not purchase the HP from one of their authorised retailers, and they only honour the warranty if the purchase is from an authorised retailer.
And this is for me WAY worse, because they do not write this information ANYWHERE on their website! How can customer know this? On their website there is barely just a section called "Store Locator" which includes a map of physical stores and a few online retailers, and nowhere is written that those are "authorised" dealers or even less that they are the only authorised, and surely not that the warranty is only valid if the purchase is made from one of those dealers.
What the hell?
About the warranty card, I got informed, it seems it is allowed by USA Federal Laws is the Warranty is "limited". For full warranty no registration can be asked. But for limited, it can. I still could not find out clearly if beside asking to register they can impose a limit of 30 days. There is no reason to impose any limit at all, after all when you register you still must provide a copy of the invoice, so the warranty starts from the purchase date, not from registration date, which means, whether you register within 1 day or 1 year, you have the same amount of warranty.
 
 
 
 
Really? Because I've seen people there just return items because they changed their minds.

Well, and?
That is not "Consumer Right", that is something some shops offer, but not a must. A Right is something you always have, not a choice of the shop.
In Germany ALL online shops MUST offer a Return Policy of at least 14 days from the delivery date. Within that date you can in any moment cancel your purchase even if you have opened the item (apart for CD; software, and hygienic articles, and In Ear headphones). This does not exist in the US, correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know in the US shops may or may not offer it, but are not forced to do it.
What happens in the US is just that there is so much competition that shops must do things which they would not do normally, in order to survive.
And btw I was referring to much more important consumer rights, also all what happens with insurances, social system, medical system, hormone meat, GMO, Fracking, and all the $h!t which the US try to bring here with the secret agreements of the TTIP.
In the EU the standard for all those things are just way higher.
 
But let's avoid a debate against the US, it is not my aim. Back on topic of online purchases, here in the EU I am not aware, (never heard, never lived it before) that you must register a product or you have no warranty.
And this thing of not honouring the warranty due to a non written rule which the customer cannot be aware of?
This is just the most vile thing I have EVER experienced in my life, in any Country I have lived in, even outside from the so called first world. Never ever before have I experienced such a thing (EDIT: talking of Consumers Rights and Customer Care, I mean).
 
May 25, 2016 at 11:38 PM Post #5 of 21

ProtegeManiac

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Well, and?
That is not "Consumer Right", that is something some shops offer, but not a must. A Right is something you always have, not a choice of the shop.
In Germany ALL online shops MUST offer a Return Policy of at least 14 days from the delivery date. Within that date you can in any moment cancel your purchase even if you have opened the item (apart for CD; software, and hygienic articles, and In Ear headphones). This does not exist in the US, correct me if I am wrong. As far as I know in the US shops may or may not offer it, but are not forced to do it.
What happens in the US is just that there is so much competition that shops must do things which they would not do normally, in order to survive.
And btw I was referring to much more important consumer rights, also all what happens with insurances, social system, medical system, hormone meat, GMO, Fracking, and all the $h!t which the US try to bring here with the secret agreements of the TTIP.
In the EU the standard for all those things are just way higher.
 
But let's avoid a debate against the US, it is not my aim. Back on topic of online purchases, here in the EU I am not aware, (never heard, never lived it before) that you must register a product or you have no warranty.

 
Well actually the absurd situation I described is precisely due to consumer rights - ie, California has one of the strictest consumer protection laws within the US. So while US federal law isn't as strict as EU federal law, given how every state has stricter than federal laws in certain areas like consumer protection, some states do have stricter rules.
 
Also while the federal government nor most states do not prescribe a strict formula for how the warranty applies vis a vis product registration, purchase dates, etc, they're more of vague. And vague isn't necessarily a bad thing since, given their insistence on keeping receipts and other records, it basically means that such procedures do not automatically override other sections of the consumer protection law. Warranties to basic and implied functionality in some cases still stand barring any way that can be proven to be negligence on the user's part. If anything the biggest problem here is that you're not aware of how their laws worked when you purchased the product - ie even the FTC reminds everyone to read the fine print and that (or a link to it) should be on the product page. That will include the product registration procedures. This is also why when I purchase anything from the US and I use my brother's address (primarily because local Customs officials here inspect smaller packages and basically can interpret the law to mean "I have the right to call BS on the price stated on your receipt"), he opens up everything and sends in the warranty cards.
 
That said, the problem really is that you can't threaten the manufacturer or dealer that you're about to go over to the federal regulator's office in your state's largest city to complain about it, but neither does that mean that the Feds can't help you. Did you send the FTC any emails explaining your problem getting the warranty? If for example the rules about product registration were not on the page where you bought it from and as you said the card wasn't exactly in plain sight it will be easier for you to argue your case.
 
 
 
This is just the most vile thing I have EVER experienced in my life, in any Country I have lived in, even outside from the so called first world. Never ever before have I experienced such a thing (EDIT: talking of Consumers Rights and Customer Care, I mean).

 
You're welcome to try the Philippines, where Audi got sued for a perpetually broken A4 as the test case for a Lemon Law far behind practically every other sane country's, and that's for a big ticket item involving people with more resources. Just imagine how it is for cheaper items with closer to real average people.
 
May 26, 2016 at 5:32 AM Post #6 of 21

Giogio

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@ProtegeManiac, ok, I understand your points, it must be difficult to live in the US and travel around states with different laws or buying from different states. I wonder if a customer living in the state b can buy online from a seller living in the state a, and which laws would apply.
I would not call EU laws "federal", we are not a federation, but I got what you meant.
 
Yes, as said, on their website is not written anywhere, neither that you have 30 days from purchase to register the product, nor that there are authorised dealers and the purchase must be from them.
And on top of that, as said, the warranty card is not in the envelope with the User Guide (which is where the 99,9% of Companies put it, and the most meaningful thing to do because people will surely look there) r in any other immediately visible place, but hidden in a compartment of the carrying case.
 
I am not yet sure if I will forward this case to any US Federal Institution, but in case I wish to, any tip about where I should forward it?
 
For sure this Company will not be happy to read what I will write about them and their product, when my coming soon Comparison of more than 100 Bluetooth Headphones will be online.
I just wonder how can they still be making business.
Everything in this situation was totally wrong since the very first moment.
On the phone a guy with an angry tone answered like if he was hating his job and hating me for calling. And this each time I called. The few times somebody else answered they had the same tone, so it must be a Company tradition, scaring customers since the first contact.
The rest of the communication with them, phone and emails, was a deeply unpleasant odyssey which I will never forget.
But the worst? How the headphones sound. With a price of 300 and a sound of 30, and such a way of treating people, how can they still be out there?
 
May 26, 2016 at 8:29 AM Post #7 of 21

ProtegeManiac

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giogio /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Yes, as said, on their website is not written anywhere, neither that you have 30 days from purchase to register the product, nor that there are authorised dealers and the purchase must be from them.
And on top of that, as said, the warranty card is not in the envelope with the User Guide (which is where the 99,9% of Companies put it, and the most meaningful thing to do because people will surely look there) r in any other immediately visible place, bhttps://www.ftc.gov/ut hidden in a compartment of the carrying case.
 
I am not yet sure if I will forward this case to any US Federal Institution, but in case I wish to, any tip about where I should forward it?

 
 
Take it to the FTC if they do not respond, but do not threaten them yet with details of what you might file with the FTC before you do the steps below (ie they might alter the website to include the terms if they aren't there, which makes the investigation more tedious as it will now require computer experts to look into the logs and testify to what they find, if they weren't there). There's a link on the main page that links to how to file a complaint. Just click on the links to the applicable category, ie, electronics or other if that isn't listed.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1
 
Here's a brief discussion on their website that covers the basics of the warranties in the Consumer Protection Act.
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0252-warranties
 
In any case start your homework now - go back to the website where you ordered the product from and take screenshots that would cover every part of the page that way you can show that the link to the warranty application terms aren't even listed, if they aren't, because if that's the case that makes your case easier to argue for why you didn't even look for the warranty card that they also didn't put within plain sight. Take screenshots of your electronic receipts as well. Give them a brief explanation of the problem and if they use forms as opposed to emails and have no way to put attachments, use Dropbox links set to public so they can access these screenshots (if you got hardcopy receipts scan them). Also check where the product was shipped from - state laws apply if the product was sold to someone in a given state or if sold to someone outside of the US AFAIK state laws of where the dealer or manufacturer is based will then apply.
 
Now, even if the terms were there but you didn't read them, you should still go to the FTC. There is some wiggle room for ignorance of the law with regard to consumer protection and fine print stuff, particularly if there is too early failure and no signs of mishandling on your part - ie if they arrived DOA, or they failed soon after and there's no sign you dropped them and such, or even that shipping took too long you can't comply with the registration procedure. Regarding that last one, this thread is a kind of time stamp now - what I would have done instead of starting this thread, especially since shipping took some time and it broke soon after, is just not provide any kind of time stamp as to when I actually got to open the package and file the complaint. We're past that point now but this is something to note for next time. It's not about outright lying but it reduces their chances of arguing that you had enough time to abuse the product.
 
May 26, 2016 at 10:59 AM Post #8 of 21

Giogio

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I did not menace them of anything but I had of course already taken screenshots of the entire website, even pages which have nothing to do with warranty, and I told them.
And I checked from IE too (in case my Firefox with Ad-Block was blocking some popup with the required info). There is NOTHING.
 
Ok, I reveal it, I am talking of A-Audio. By FAR the most unpleasant human and professional contact I had with any Company, and I contacted them ALL.
And, on top of that, their Icon Wireless are a really bad sounding Headphone, among the worst sounding overall, and definitely without any possible doubt the very worst sounding in their Price Range. To find something worse you have to spend 1/4 of that...
I have indeed found some other bad sounding HPs, and some other unpleasant contacts, but only two Companies were at same time an unpleasant contact and a bad sounding expensive product: A-Audio and Creative.
 
Please have you all guys a look at their website a-audio.com and may be your answer here, with the date of it, another proof that NOWHERE is written that the registration must be within 30 days from purchase, or that the purchase must be from authorised dealers.
Not for me. I do am pissed off for my money. But money is just money and I can give up on it.
What I care the most is to give people a reliable info. And the only reason why I now can accept this lost of money and time without feeling that it was for nothing, is that at least I can now warn you all guys: SKIP THIS.
But in case they try to play dirty (which kind of would fit with all what they did till now), it may be good if you guys put here some feedback about your visit to their website and if you have found any reference to those warranty things.
They may say I didn't read well, but they cannot say this of many people.
 
May 26, 2016 at 11:33 AM Post #9 of 21

ProtegeManiac

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giogio /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I did not menace them of anything but I had of course already taken screenshots of the entire website, even pages which have nothing to do with warranty, and I told them.
And I checked from IE too (in case my Firefox with Ad-Block was blocking some popup with the required info). There is NOTHING.
 
Ok, I reveal it, I am talking of A-Audio. By FAR the most unpleasant human and professional contact I had with any Company, and I contacted them ALL.
And, on top of that, their Icon Wireless are a really bad sounding Headphone, among the worst sounding overall, and definitely without any possible doubt the very worst sounding in their Price Range. To find something worse you have to spend 1/4 of that...
I have indeed found some other bad sounding HPs, and some other unpleasant contacts, but only two Companies were at same time an unpleasant contact and a bad sounding expensive product: A-Audio and Creative.
 
Please have you all guys a look at their website a-audio.com and may be your answer here, with the date of it, another proof that NOWHERE is written that the registration must be within 30 days from purchase, or that the purchase must be from authorised dealers.
Not for me. I do am pissed off for my money. But money is just money and I can give up on it.
What I care the most is to give people a reliable info. And the only reason why I now can accept this lost of money and time without feeling that it was for nothing, is that at least I can now warn you all guys: SKIP THIS.
But in case they try to play dirty (which kind of would fit with all what they did till now), it may be good if you guys put here some feedback about your visit to their website and if you have found any reference to those warranty things.
They may say I didn't read well, but they cannot say this of many people.


 
Well it wasn't really about menacing them or not, just that you shouldn't give away what you plan on taking to the FTC. Like I said, if they change the content of the website, you'd have to get some software expert to look up the logs in order to present to the FTC that there wasn't anything there.

In any case, it's good that you have the screenshots. The way the FTC actually expressed those warranty terms (which implies, but not explicitly includes, the warranty registration) was for buyers to review them prior to purchasing. If it's not on the website, and is only on a card that isn't even in plain sight once the package (for the product, not the shipper's) is opened, then there's no way you can even review that before making a purchase.
 
All that said, I have never even heard of that A-Audio (the one A-Audio I know is a cottage industry speaker manufacturer here), and it's all sounding a bit fishy to me. The "bling" look on top of the "Affluence, Ambition" claim is off-putting to me also - kind of like how people will go tell you that if you have money you need to drive around in a Lambo with the kind of chrome wheels that nobody who actually drives them fast legally will put on their car much less drive around a track in.
 
May 26, 2016 at 12:04 PM Post #10 of 21

Giogio

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Well, each Company says their product is the ultimate one.
Anyway yes, they are kinda fishy.
 
Did you find any reference to authorised dealers or registration time limit on their website?
It would be cool if you can give a feedback on that.
 
EDIT: I suppose that I am not allowed to post screenshots of their website here?
 
May 26, 2016 at 1:48 PM Post #11 of 21

Giogio

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Filed a complaint to FTC and chatted with an operative who told me: "We operate on a national level, which means we must have numerous complaints before our attorneys and investigators proceed. We do not assist in getting you a replacement".
Yeah. US Consumers Rights.
 
My question was then "who can assist me?"
They: "You will have to dispute this with the company."
Me: "And who can help me in this process, if the Company refuses to honour the warranty?"
They: "I apologize I have no information regarding who can assist you in this. We only assist in filing the complaints and direct you to contact the company to dispute this."
 
Do people in the US normally file complaints before having anything to complain about? If I complain is because I have contacted the Company, and I was given a negative.
 
 
So, it seems that for me there is no way out, I have lost 400 Euro of my money to be able to tell you guys that the Icon Wireless sounds very bad, have a less than average ANC which also produces a very loud hiss, and have apparently quality control problems (how many chances that just a reviewer gets the only defective unit around?), and that A-Audio is a not trusty Company with less than transparent, very questionable policies.
Happy to help :)
I would be glad if somebody would help back with at least giving here a feedback about the missing information on their website. It would help me digesting the missing 400 Euro.
 
Cheers
 
May 26, 2016 at 2:57 PM Post #12 of 21

DivaFonda

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I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I do know one thing. In the US, companies often have to get shamed all over the media to do the right thing. We do have consumer laws but there can be loopholes. And many companies are sure to make use of any and all loopholes. There indeed does seem to be that many, many complaints need to be filed before the government looks into something.
 
You're perfectly free to post bad reviews of them all over. Getting the word out and making them look like the scum they are.
 
However, this is a bit of an obscure company. Let me do a quick check somewhere. BRB.
 
May 26, 2016 at 3:00 PM Post #13 of 21

DivaFonda

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Here's their Twitter. https://twitter.com/AAudioHeadphone
Here's their Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/AAudioHeadphones
 
Have fun outing them.
very_evil_smiley.gif
 
 
BTW, when did they charge you $448(the current equivalent of $400 euro)? They want $227.40 now.
 
You also need to post the actual seller if you didn't buy directly from them. However I am also never happy when companies escape defective products with "you didn't buy from an authorized dealer" BS. I think they need to stand behind their products as long as they aren't counterfeit.
 
Did you buy from any of these retailers listed on this page?
 
http://a-audio.com/store-locator/
 
May 26, 2016 at 4:10 PM Post #14 of 21

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Giogio, I feel your pain!

However, I must disagree with the view that the situation is unreasonable.

1) They provided a warranty card with the 30-day deadline indicated, as I understand it. It was in a pocket with cables that you did not use so you did not encounter the warranty card within the 30 days, as I understand it. I do not consider that unreasonable behavior by the company.

2) Their website provides terms and conditions of purchase, including a 30 day return period (different than a 30-day registration deadline). It makes no mention of a 30-day deadline for warranty registration.

3) Their website, under its "warranty" section, does NOT indicate that you need to register within 30 days, except for a microscopic warranty card, illegible on the website, that I presume is what was tucked into the cable pocket (picture from another source, not their warranty page, attached below that CAN be read).

3) I don't quite understand from whom you purchased the headphone -- sounds like the company states that it was from an unauthorized supplier. However, many folks here seem quite aware of authorized vs. unauthorized suppliers... on the Deals thread, for example, folks often ask whether some suppliers such as sonic (yes) and adorama (don't know) are authorized suppliers for which the manufacturer warranty will be valid. In many cases, the third party supplier may take on the task of registering your product on your behalf.

4) However, they should NOT be rude to you in customer contact, regardless.

5) Since the quality of the product would be reflected in the review, good or bad, independently of marvelous or abysmal customer service, you have to do something else to address the inability to return a headphone that doesn't work...

All that said, I would suggest writing Christian Iacovelli, President, at A-Audio 7200 Corporate Center Dr. Suite 308 MIAMI, FL 33126, via paper letter in an envelope (so few people do that now that you would stand out). Explain the situation... indicate that you purchased the headphones from (whereever) for review, as part of your 100-120 BT headphone review thread (that has been viewed 328,000 times in the last 17-1/2 months (that is a hit every 2-1/2 minutes for nearly a year and a half!!!)). Put in a link to the thread. Tone down any negativism of the company in that thread. Explain that you overlooked the warranty card. Can they help you out? Leave out any negative comments about headphone performance or A-Audio customer service personnel. Indicate that you will be glad to praise their rectification of the situation in that thread, if it happens.



This warranty card, stating to register within 30 days, is NOT legible on their warranty page (at least to my 24" HD screen!)
 
May 26, 2016 at 8:11 PM Post #15 of 21

DDDYKI

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I work for a retailer here in the US, who I won't name. We sell worldwide and deal with manufacturers all over the world. In my job, I go to a lot of different manufacturer websites and am always looking at warranties to ensure we have the correct information. I don't recall ever seeing anyone say you must register within a time limit. Some will offer you an extended warranty if you register online, or if you do it within a certain time limit, but I don't recall seeing one that says you must register before X days. I've seen other companies say you don't even have to register your product for warranty service. We generally don't dig for this information to put on our site, but I get bored easily and will sometimes read the warranty terms just to make sure this cheapo BT transmitter really has a 3-year warranty. Of course, that's if the manufacturer puts the full terms on their site in the first place.
 
I do know that companies have different warranty terms based on where the item is sold, and sometimes it's the local distributor that will provide warranty support. In addition, some manufacturers will publicize a list of authorized or unauthorized dealers on their site. As far as unauthorized dealers go, you see a lot of eBay sellers and third-party sellers on Amazon.
 
I'm the type of guy who has to look at anything and everything in the electronics box, but I also see why you didn't - you're conducting testing for a specific purpose, and keeping a bunch of cases and carry bags around makes it harder to figure out where a specific headphone is within your work area.
 

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