[RnB180]

can someone please explain to me how a power cord can benefit the signal's sonic characteristics?

Ive been reading some reviews of power cables in magazines and they speak of expanded wider sound stage, more detail and so on.

but I do not understand how a power cable can affect sonic performance in that way.

for example if a power cable were assembled well and performed to meet every expection needed for wattage and amp ratings, other then supplying power how would this effect audio? isnt it just drawing and supplying power to the source or amp? and if its a competant cable it will supply proper power.

this confuses me, if anyone has an actual explaination that can answer my questions please help me out here. Im thinking about upgrading my power cable, but only if its truly beneficial as I already have a 125 watt 15 amp green dot cable at the moment.

 

[PITTM]

well it seems like youve kind of built yourself a solution. why dont you take out your green dot cable and use a crappy power cable and see if you notice a difference. the more i learn about amplifiers and circuits in general it seems like it is ALL about power. i would also be curious to see if power cords make a difference.

rj

 

[RnB180]

well, Ive heard differences in interconnects, but then it makes sense since its carrying the audio signal.

but if you have a power cord that is able to carry ALL the power needed, how can different ones that have the same performance alter sound? since it do not carry the audio signal and sends sufficient power to the amp.

thats my question. I havent tested different power cords sicne I dont have money to do such an experiment. which is why im asking before I decide to get a better power cord.

 

[grandenigma1]

people will argue dirty and clean power, EMI and RFI, proper grounding, build quality, and of course with all audio stuff looks and that fact that it costs more so it must be better.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 well, Ive heard differences in interconnects, but then it makes sense since its carrying the audio signal. but if you have a power cord that is able to carry ALL the power needed, how can different ones that have the same performance alter sound? since it do not carry the audio signal and sends sufficient power to the amp.

Makes sense to me also that a interconnect would make a bigger difference than power cords, but I found that it my system changing the stock power cords for upgraded cords made a bigger difference than changing the interconnects.

I couldn't begin to explain why power cords make a difference in my system, but I know that they do. If you buy on on return, you can try for yourself and then return it if it doesn' help.

 

[yorkie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandenigma1 people will argue dirty and clean power, EMI and RFI, proper grounding, build quality, and of course with all audio stuff looks and that fact that it costs more so it must be better.

I'm no expert but here's my opinion anyway.

Using a hospital grade plug should give you cleaner power, but beyond having good connections the material composition of the cabling itself (copper, silver, gold, etc) is electrically speaking negligible.

Any interference argument immediately strikes me as nonsense, because there are miles of cable leading to your house, eliminating the interference in the last few feet will basically be negligible. The only solution to this problem would be power conditioning.

 

[RnB180]

I was reading the reviews in hi fi home audio magazines, they reviewers have very large reference systems and top cables, then they review a power cable and all of a sudden sound stage imaging became more precise, airiness appearing and wider field of sound resulting from the power cable.

This makes me wonder what the heck these reviewers with systems in the 5-6 digit budget levels were using originally

reviews like these alway get me thinking how it is possible. So I was wondering if anyone can explain in down to earth terms with good reason this phenomena.

 

[Leporello]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 this confuses me, if anyone has an actual explaination that can answer my questions please help me out here. Im thinking about upgrading my power cable, but only if its truly beneficial as I already have a 125 watt 15 amp green dot cable at the moment.

At this stage you should not look for an explanation. Your first question should be: are the perceived differences real or imagined? Only when you have established that there is a real difference is it time to look for explanations.

Don't be fooled by snake oil peddlers!


Regards,

L.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leporello At this stage you should not look for an explanation. Your first question should be: are the perceived differences real or imagined? Only when you have established that there is a real difference is it time to look for explanations.

I would argue the contrary. If you listen, and the differences are real to you (i.e., you can hear them with your ears), you don't need to worry about the scientific explanation, or someone else who doesn't own your ears telling you that you can't possibly hear what you hear. To you, the differences are reall and not imagined. The bane of the skeptic's existence is the fact that you can try for yourself, often on 30-day or 60-day return. With every such trial, the skeptics tend to lose another skeptic.

 

[Leporello]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I would argue the contrary. If you listen, and the differences are real to you (i.e., you can hear them with your ears), you don't need to worry about the scientific explanation, or someone else who doesn't own your ears telling you that you can't possibly hear what you hear. To you, the differences are reall and not imagined.

That is certainly a philosophical position one can choose (I do not, many others do)!

Would you say that it is impossible to imagine (in the sense of "firmly believing in the existence of" etc.) things that do not actually exist at all - that it is impossible to make this kind of distinction between real and imagined at all?

If I firmly believe I am a flying cow

, then "to myself" I am a flying cow. But is that really all that can be said about my situation?


Regards,

L.

 

[shimage]

To my knowledge, if you have proper filtering on your power supply, the power cable should almost be irrelevant to sound quality. In the (likely) event that I do not know everything there is to know, you'll probably want to test it out for yourself. Find a place with a good return policy, ask on this forum, whatever. If you're assertive enough, you should find a way to try out some cables risk-free. As for my opinions on how you should go about comparing them ... well, you can probably infer my suggestion from what comes below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I would argue the contrary. If you listen, and the differences are real to you (i.e., you can hear them with your ears), you don't need to worry about the scientific explanation, or someone else who doesn't own your ears telling you that you can't possibly hear what you hear. To you, the differences are real and not imagined.

Either you didn't understand his point, or you're trying to argue that placebo is something worth paying big bucks for. I, for one, have a finite budget, and so I can't really afford to pay for snake oil. Maybe you do, but that's blasphemy in my trade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS The bane of the skeptic's existence is the fact that you can try for yourself, often on 30-day or 60-day return. With every such trial, the skeptics tend to lose another skeptic.

I will agree that trials are the way to go, but I've seen way too many people claim to hear "obvious" differences while failing blind tests, so I'll remain a skeptic for now, thankyouverymuch.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leporello Would you say that it is impossible to imagine (in the sense of "firmly believing in the existence of" etc.) things that do not actually exist at all - that it is impossible to make this kind of distinction between real and imagined at all?

No, but the quality and quantity of evidence re the beneficial effect of power cords is such that it cannot be attributed all to imagination.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimage Either you didn't understand his point, or you're trying to argue that placebo is something worth paying big bucks for. I, for one, have a finite budget, and so I can't really afford to pay for snake oil. Maybe you do, but that's blasphemy in my trade.

I understand the point, but "placebo" -- which is trotted out by every skeptic -- does not explain what people have heard, either in terms of the numbers of people who have heard differences, or the types of differences they have heard. I also find it hard to accept "placebo" as an arugment, because even the most die hard skeptics who try power cords often find that they hear a difference, and they then become believers (including yours truly). What's the "placebo" in such instances? They did not believe they would hear a difference, and then they did (contrary to their expectations); this doesn't seem to make sense if it is always a placebo effect.

As to the blind test issue, the limitations of these tests have been discussed in previous threads on this forum.

 

[shimage]

We're making the same assumptions about different things here. I don't care where placebo comes from; I just think I see it all over the damn place. You don't know where these "improvements" come from, you just see them all over the damn place. I think we should just agree to disagree.

The entire argument hinges on one thing:
Quote:

As to the blind test issue, the limitations of these tests have been discussed in previous threads on this forum.

I haven't seen anything on this forum that would suggest to me that a properly administered blind test should not be the only arbiter of perceived differences. If a difference exists, and you really are hearing this difference in a not-blind comparison, then I don't see what the big problem is if I just don't tell you which one is which.

Like I said above, I think we have simply chosen a different set of fundamental postulates regarding what constitutes "proof" and what doesn't. I doubt there is anything either of us can say at this point to move the other in any way.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimage I doubt there is anything either of us can say at this point to move the other in any way.

Probably right, which is why I urge people to try it? Have you?