[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrickhat2001 This from someone who stated a few posts back that he's never heard the HD580/600? Anyone else see the problem here.

Take a flat response (*), an improved bass control, a lowered distortion, flavour with valuable confirmations from trusted head-fiers, and you have it clear & clean.

(*) http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/attac...achmentid=3416

 

[JaZZ]

Somehow all are right.

The HD 650 for sure has the flatter frequency response than the HD 600 on my ears, especially in the treble. That doesn't mean its sonic balance is necessarily more neutral in the wider view. The HD 600's treble seems airier, and the bass is less thick, so all in all it's a bit more natural to my ears. But the great «but» is that the HD 650 has much higher resolution and clarity in every frequency area and therefore wins by miles. All just IMO.

 

[SDA]

IMHO: I'd say the 580/600/650 family is more.. thick, I guess, than the 555/595 (no comment on 515). They also sound more lush, intimate, laid-back, whatever. I don't know that I'd call any of 'em "neutral", because I have a hard time saying exactly what "neutral" means. The 580/600/650 family 'phones are all a little on the bassy side, the 650 more than the rest. I find them more euphonic than the 5x5, but that's only my opinion.

Andrea, I think the only thing that's clear here is that you shouldn't make judgments on headphones you haven't even heard. Of course, I doubt that message will ever make it through to you, but it's worth reiterating for anyone who might be so foolish as to take your opinions at face value.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea The HD650 is superior to the HD580/600, don't be fooled by the changes in balance - it is more of everything (e.g. transparency).

I have had both for extended periods and I think the 650 is a step back. There is just to much bass and the overall sound is to dark. I much prefer the 600's more neutral and balanced sound. The 650 has greater treble refinement but that doesnt make up for the exaggerated bass and the "to dark and thick" overall sound character of the 650. I dont think the 600 has quite the overall resolution. But because of the 650's darkness the 600 seems more transparent and open sounding TO ME. Bottom line..... I prefer listening to the 600 because the 650 sounds to colored.

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I have had both for extended periods and I think the 650 is a step back. There is just to much bass and the overall sound is to dark. I much prefer the 600's more neutral and balanced sound. The 650 has greater treble refinement but that doesnt make up for the exaggerated bass and the "to dark and thick" overall sound character of the 650. I dont think the 600 has quite the overall resolution. But because of the 650's darkness the 600 seems more transparent and open sounding TO ME. Bottom line..... I prefer listening to the 600 because the 650 sounds to colored.

I concur. I really like the highs of the the HD650 (which are very good, probably the most realistic and controlled I've heard) but, overall, the HD600 is more my flavor.



Quote:

Originally Posted by SDA Andrea, I think the only thing that's clear here is that you shouldn't make judgments on headphones you haven't even heard.

Bingo.

Sorry to rag on you, Andrea, but it's just common knowledge that you can't recommend one phone over another unless you have heard both.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover I have had both for extended periods and I think the 650 is a step back. There is just to much bass and the overall sound is to dark. I much prefer the 600's more neutral and balanced sound. The 650 has greater treble refinement but that doesnt make up for the exaggerated bass and the "to dark and thick" overall sound character of the 650. I dont think the 600 has quite the overall resolution. But because of the 650's darkness the 600 seems more transparent and open sounding TO ME. Bottom line..... I prefer listening to the 600 because the 650 sounds to colored.

Well, I will offer an opposite opinion, just FWIW. I owned HD600s, and really liked them, but found them just a bit more bass-shy than I would ideally like. I got HD650s, and found them to be far more to my liking -- every bit the equal, or better, of the HD600 in the highs and mids, and with what is for me a preferable bass balance. I personally do not find the 650s to be either dark or thick. In fact I felt the differences between the two, while noticable, were nonetheless subtle.

Bottom line -- people who like more bass will prefer the HD650s, people who like less will prefer the HD600s. But they are both tremendously good headphones.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrickhat2001 Sorry to rag on you, Andrea, but it's just common knowledge that you can't recommend one phone over another unless you have heard both.

Things is, any less bass and more treble would be an unbalanced sound for me. I perceive my HD650 as flat as the Stereoplay measurement tells, so I know for 'rationally certain' that I belong in the pro-650 faction.

 

[Patrickhat2001]

Hmmm....fair enough. I get where you are coming from now. But you are still assuming that you would prefer the HD650 over the HD580/600, however rationally. And you know what they say about assumptions....erm, wait

 

[Andrea]

...almost forgot, there's also the more forward midrange thing (which I think is ascertained). My music just needs that. So hail to the 650

 

[Elephas]

I found that I preferred the HD600 with Cardas cable to a stock HD650. The HD600/Cardas was very smooth-sounding and seemed to be neutral and accurate, without emphasizing too much of any treble, midrange, or bass. I assume this is what is meant by a flat response.

I find talking and writing about audio to be very difficult.

It is impressive that someone is able to "know" how a headphone sounds from verbal and written descriptions and charts.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas It is impressive that someone is able to "know" how a headphone sounds from verbal and written descriptions and charts.

When in presence of a shared (by some affinity of taste/hearing/perception) reference point, "assumption" is not properly such imo, nor there's anything "esoteric" to it.

 

[Bill Ward]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrickhat2001 Hmmm....fair enough. I get where you are coming from now. But you are still assuming that you would prefer the HD650 over the HD580/600, however rationally. And you know what they say about assumptions....erm, wait

Andrea has an oft-remarked ability to intuitively assess the performance of headphones he hasn't heard. Enviable, actually. It's got to be more cost-effective than the buy-and-try method that so beggars the rest of us.

BW

 

[slindeman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab Well, I will offer an opposite opinion, just FWIW. I owned HD600s, and really liked them, but found them just a bit more bass-shy than I would ideally like. I got HD650s, and found them to be far more to my liking -- every bit the equal, or better, of the HD600 in the highs and mids, and with what is for me a preferable bass balance. I personally do not find the 650s to be either dark or thick. In fact I felt the differences between the two, while noticable, were nonetheless subtle. Bottom line -- people who like more bass will prefer the HD650s, people who like less will prefer the HD600s. But they are both tremendously good headphones.

Me too. This is exactly what I found, and the reason why I prefer HD650 to HD600.

While we're on the subject of 5xx models, those that find the bass of HD580/HD600 still strong for their tastes might want to look for an old HD545/HD565. Very similar sounding to HD580, but with lighter bass and slightly wider soundstage.

 

[Skylab]

My first pair of Senn's were 570s. When, a few years later, I bought HD600s, I was surprised that they seemed to have much less bass than the 570s (in spite of being better in every other way). Sennheiser really does have different balances to different cans.

 

[SDA]

Quote:

Things is, any less bass and more treble would be an unbalanced sound for me. I perceive my HD650 as flat as the Stereoplay measurement tells, so I know for 'rationally certain' that I belong in the pro-650 faction.

But 'knowing' that you would prefer the HD650 isn't the same as knowing that the HD650 is flatter or more neutral, especially since you've actually LISTENED to, what, all of two high-end headphones? Usually people with experience only with one or two high-end headphones think of their personal favorite headphone as the most "neutral", which is why you would need actual experience with both to say what's actually more life-like.

There's also the fact that you stated the HD650 is objectively superior to the 580/600, with "more of everything". That's a difficult statement to make for someone who owns both, and just plain stupid coming from someone who's never even heard one.