How do I convince people that audio cables DO NOT make a difference
Nov 20, 2018 at 8:47 AM Post #1,351 of 2,696

Elecroestatico

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I hope by the above you're being facetious. Because all it does is makes me want to go down to the hardware store and buy 10m of ordinary 16AWG zipcord, which has satisfied the ears of me, my wife, my parents, and our guests for decades. Seriously.
dont buuy ordinary 16 awg zipcord, sommme of them donnt even have pure copper cores, lol u silly boy
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 8:57 AM Post #1,352 of 2,696

Elecroestatico

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there is no need to blind test that when ohm's law tell us that much. let's take the most obvious hypothetical example for me, 2 cables as identical as can be, in gauge, length, braiding, shielding, etc. but one made of silver and one made of copper. so we can confidently assume that the silver one will at least have lower impedance than the copper one. are we in agreement with that?
now let's plug each cable in turn into, well really most single BA driver IEMs. then we'd measure or sometimes listen to the difference when it's big enough. a BA driver often has its impedance rising massively in the trebles, like these 3 guys:

it's an impedance graph, with an er4sr, an old sony XBA-c10, and I don't remember what I picked for the thrid one(lol, sorry. I just opened randomly some single BA files I have, but all impedance graphs are named "impedance" because I'm a genius, s once open I don't have a clue where I picked it). anyway it's not hard to see a trend in the upper range, based on my own experience this is fairly typical.

now we have basic electricity telling us that for the load(IEM), the source impedance is amplifier output impedance+cable impedance. and that means two things:
1/ if the amp's impedance isn't very small, the difference in cables is not going to matter much when added to the amp.
2/ that the amp+silver cable are going to have lower total impedance.(as we keep the same amp)

now we deduce that the frequency response will be more attenuated in the low and mid range in reaction to the IEM's own impedance response. and when using the copper cable that behavior will be bigger than with the silver cable. meaning that once you match the volume to align at 1khz, the frequency response graph will show a boost in the trebles for the copper cable compared to the FR when using the silver cable. in simple terms, the copper cable would be "brighter" in this example. it's really just good old ohm's law, except that it must be calculated for each frequency as the variables involved keep changing for at least the IEM.

for an example with sources of different impedance changing the FR, https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feedback-about-gears-stop-doing-it-wrong-impedance.866714/ (self advertising, yeah!!!) I've been told that aside from me whining, the impedance part was easy to understand. or you have the sticky topic about impedance in the main page of the section.
clearly here I'm only paying attention to impedance variations, and FR changing as a result. that doesn't mean it's the only variable capable of affecting the output sound of course. but it's often what's causing the most obvious changes. at least based on my own attempts at measuring stuff when they sounded different to me.
I haven't had a silver cable for years and really don't plan on investing in one anymore, so I can't offer to measure the actual case I was presenting. but I've done a lot of measurements adding resistors of different values between the amp and various IEMs. so I can show some exaggerated examples of how the low impedance "cable"(anything between the amp and the IEM), doesn't always sound "brighter".
So I guess they are finally learning the truth from us.... I hope one day they thank me instead of insulting me

edit: I heard that the cable thats behind the wall to power your outlets its great for subwoofers but i never tried it
 
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Nov 20, 2018 at 9:14 AM Post #1,353 of 2,696

Elecroestatico

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Hi there! Welcome back!
So I recommend you install foobar and then install the abx switcher.
Our friend brooko will assist you,
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/set...ping-tagging-transcoding.655879/#post-9268096
And a cheap ABX switcher you can buy on Amazon so you don't have to unplug cables.
With that done! You should be able to
- Document the differences between your DACs that are constructed with different materials. Show us ABX test logs that show the difference that you can hear on what time in the song and pass it. Do around 15 trials to confirm it is consistent.
- you should be able to document and consistently pass a double blind trial documenting you can tell the difference between a well welded soldered terminal.
- you should able be able provide test logs on how oxygen affects the cable by providing a oxygen free cable test logs compared to a cable that has oxygen in it
- so gold can cause the electrical signal to have luscious Dynamics! Great! That's fantastic! I eagerly await your double blind test logs documenting the exact time and place in the song that you heard this difference between that cable and a copper or silver cable and have a consistent pass rate on the trials.

I will patiently await your ABX test logs and photos of the equipment being tested in your environment.
LOL is not the amount of oxygen the problem, it's the oxidation that can affect the cable performance and this is dependent on how much oxidation and in what areas of the cable such oxidation originates.

And yes, gold has those sound characteristics, just like silver tends to be brighter. Its only a way to describe the sound, is not like magically you are going to get luscious dynamics, common don't be too hard on yourself! just use your ears :)

And finally, what is foobar? and what kind of component ABX is? am I the only one here using windows media player?
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 9:33 AM Post #1,355 of 2,696

JaeYoon

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LOL is not the amount of oxygen the problem, it's the oxidation that can affect the cable performance and this is dependent on how much oxidation and in what areas of the cable such oxidation originates.

And yes, gold has those sound characteristics, just like silver tends to be brighter. Its only a way to describe the sound, is not like magically you are going to get luscious dynamics, common don't be too hard on yourself! just use your ears :)

And finally, what is foobar? and what kind of component ABX is? am I the only one here using windows media player?
So still no measurements or even an ABX test log for me on that?
:sob:
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:10 AM Post #1,357 of 2,696

TheSonicTruth

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dont buuy ordinary 16 awg zipcord, sommme of them donnt even have pure copper cores, lol u silly boy

Then call ALL of us who use plain ol' speaker wire "silly", because even a slight turn of a treble knob will "brighten" the sound far more than your waste-o-money silver or gold conductors.
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:44 AM Post #1,358 of 2,696

JaeYoon

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sure body sure, dont address anything of the things I have said (not like is the first time you do so). Have you been reading previous page and this page or only my posts? i bet you haven't, otherwise you wouldnt be crying for measurments.
Ok then! So you have no proof. No tests done at all. Just utter nonsense.
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 10:49 AM Post #1,359 of 2,696

JaeYoon

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Yeah it's cool to be able to tune the sound with the cables, and sometimes the brightness of silver is adequate for other devices, specially if your transducers are warm or slow, but all depends on the rest of the chain, remember its all about synergy. Gold is usually smoother but with luscious dynamics. The connectors also play an important role in how the cable will sound. The technique used to weld/solder the terminals, even the amount of oxygen that will enter as the cable as it ages, the impedance of the cable its dampening factor get affected by all these examples among many others.
You should definitely consider posting this on hydrogenaudio. No really! I highly recommend you head there and do it.

Let them know, that no ABX test logs or any form of measurements are needed! Just your own ears right?
 
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Nov 20, 2018 at 1:05 PM Post #1,360 of 2,696

bigshot

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He never replies to my posts. I think he's afraid of me. I don't bite!
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 4:23 PM Post #1,362 of 2,696

bigshot

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Yes, and it's easily modified to use it to plug in your toaster!
 
Nov 20, 2018 at 4:39 PM Post #1,364 of 2,696

JaeYoon

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He never replies to my posts. I think he's afraid of me. I don't bite!
I think I should've taken your advice and not reply to him. When asked about his DACs and how he came to his conclusions. Elecro will do everything he can to avoid doing any actual tests or comparisons with actual measurements or ABX test logs.

He will talk about all the other irrelevant stuff.
He won't even reply to you!!!

From his reply above! If he's going to make claims such as welding and soldering affect sound quality, he should substantiate his claim. He won't and will beat around the bush to try to move goalposts. His recent post is a perfect example of avoiding testing his claims!!!

Added: I forgot to mention
Yeah it's cool to be able to tune the sound with the cables, and sometimes the brightness of silver is adequate for other devices,

so we can confidently assume that the silver one will at least have lower impedance than the copper one. are we in agreement with that?
so I can show some exaggerated examples of how the low impedance "cable"(anything between the amp and the IEM), doesn't always sound "brighter".
I wonder how elecro forgot about his other claim that silver is the "brightness" cable.
:yum:
 
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Nov 20, 2018 at 5:51 PM Post #1,365 of 2,696

bfreedma

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Sorry if this is off topic, but is this cable in the link just a power cable?

https://www.fanthorpes.co.uk/cables/mains-power-products/power-cables/chord-music-mains-cable/

It’s just short of £5k!

Am I missing something more than it does other than connect power to a device?


The best part of the page you linked is that they offer financing. The worst part is that people might actually go into debt financing a power cable.

You can always add a $3,800 Ethernet cable. At least the shipping is free

https://www.amazon.com/Audioquest-D...542754144&sr=8-1&keywords=audioquest+ethernet
 

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