How do I convince people that audio cables DO NOT make a difference
Nov 15, 2018 at 3:22 AM Post #1,306 of 2,686

Kammerat Rebekka

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Well I have blindtested the Hugo 2 against my ancient 16 bit Aune X1 and there was absolutely no difference. I used a Violectric V200 as amp and a pair of hd800 as headphones. The professional soundengineer (my buddy) I was doing this with couldn't hear any differences either.

Have you ever conducted a volume matched blindtest between two dacs?

Ohh shute I forgot: LOL
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 3:27 AM Post #1,307 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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I honestly wanted to know his reasons and tests done on his DACs. How did he come to the conclusion that different materials used in the construction of a dac would affect sound quality and what audio equipment he compared and tested.

Sadly, he avoided your question and maybe he might return and tell us.
nah you are just lying... to prove it, use the search forum and type something like "sony electroestatico" or "sony case" and you will find out several messages about this "materials used in the construction of a dac thing"

another exposed liar? :)
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 3:29 AM Post #1,308 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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Well I have blindtested the Hugo 2 against my ancient 16 bit Aune X1 and there was absolutely no difference. I used a Violectric V200 as amp and a pair of hd800 as headphones. The professional soundengineer (my buddy) I was doing this with couldn't hear any differences either.

Have you ever conducted a volume matched blindtest between two dacs?

Ohh shute I forgot: LOL
volume matching is not even a concern when you can easily hear how 2 dacs have different sound signatures and those caracteristics can be identified regardless of volume
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 3:40 AM Post #1,309 of 2,686

Kammerat Rebekka

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Wow...

How old are you 7?
Through decades and decades of doing these tests there's been but one returning factor that remains extremely important when comparing one piece of audio equipment to another. Volume level.
People will naturally pick the loudest as the best...even a smidgen can be enough to woo you that way.
But sure I forgot. You're not here to get better sound quality or indeed learn more about how one actually achieves it...nahh you seem more contempt with fighting windmills and saying LOL when posters get too close.
Have you recently spent a small fortune on a Chord dac?
I have the remedy: don't visit sound science if you want your illusions preserved.
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 4:03 AM Post #1,310 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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Wow...

How old are you 7?
Through decades and decades of doing these tests there's been but one returning factor that remains extremely important when comparing one piece of audio equipment to another. Volume level.
People will naturally pick the loudest as the best...even a smidgen can be enough to woo you that way.
But sure I forgot. You're not here to get better sound quality or indeed learn more about how one actually achieves it...nahh you seem more contempt with fighting windmills and saying LOL when posters get too close.
Have you recently spent a small fortune on a Chord dac?
I have the remedy: don't visit sound science if you want your illusions preserved.
I knew the "people will pick the loudest as the best" was coming lol. If you can't hear differences on dacs I understand why volume matching will be a priority for you and how much easier is for you to convince yourself that the louder seems better is a more acceptable tendency... im not saying compare at extremly different volume levels, im saying just about the zssame level people with good ears can tell one dac from another and volume microdifferences are really not important as we are listening for sound caracteristics such as the overall dryness or roundness of the sound or how the dac is presenting the soundstage, how strong is the center imaging, how much instruments breath, what frequencies tend to be more exposed and better represented etc etc, all will give a very particular sound signature to a device, and you dont need to break your head with micro adjusting volume matching lol, some are more similar sounding than others of course but really your all dacs amps and cables are the same is just plain ridiculous, shows the very little understanding some people have around here

and im not 7 years old, im older than that. Also I have not spent a small amout of money in a chord dac, maybe for you its a small amount but for me is my summer savings fortune, but my equipment is transparently listed so you can see my chord an other stuff, like a big lol to the guy saying that i refuse to tell them my equipment when its info disclosed
 
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Nov 15, 2018 at 4:12 AM Post #1,311 of 2,686

Kammerat Rebekka

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Alrighty I am done with this. You continue to post like this was the ordinary part of head-fi..and it's really not. There is no way for a dac to infuse "soundstage", "imaging" and it most certainly cannot get "instruments to breathe".
A dac converts 1s and 0s into sound. The imaging, soundstage and all the other audiphile nonsense stem from the recording and indeed how well the transducers convey it.
Please do yourself a favour and leave this subforum alone. In here we demand proof when people claim the preposterous that goes against everything science has taught us up until now.

I will let you in on a little secret: I used to think exactly like you...until I put my money where my mouth is.
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 4:29 AM Post #1,312 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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Alrighty I am done with this. You continue to post like this was the ordinary part of head-fi..and it's really not. There is no way for a dac to infuse "soundstage", "imaging" and it most certainly cannot get "instruments to breathe".
A dac converts 1s and 0s into sound. The imaging, soundstage and all the other audiphile nonsense stem from the recording and indeed how well the transducers convey it.
Please do yourself a favour and leave this subforum alone. In here we demand proof when people claim the preposterous that goes against everything science has taught us up until now.

I will let you in on a little secret: I used to think exactly like you...until I put my money where my mouth is.
eww you could catch an ear infection if you put cash in your mouth! anyways you get the best sonic performance from an iphone that to you performs like a hugo 2, so I really don't even know how can i start a logical conversation when we are not seeing the same colors
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 7:12 AM Post #1,313 of 2,686

gregorio

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Ahh we're back at the old audiophile bastion: flee when people ask for proof of your claims...and sneak in the backdoor to spout bollocks when the adults are in bed.

So succinct it's worth reposting! :ok_hand:

BIG ULTRA LOL

And there we have it again, that same Big Ultra Lol of the crazy mental patient. As you can't respond to a single question but only with grade school level insults, then clearly you care more about trolling than looking like a complete imbecile. You're wasting your time though, @castleofargh will simply delete all your troll posts.

G
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 9:15 AM Post #1,314 of 2,686

castleofargh

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Wait a second! you are now trying to blame me and demand that I respond in behalf of sony's claims? BIG ULTRA LOL. let me remind you that the reason SOMEBODY ELSE posted about that sony walkman was to attack me for saying that materials change the sound, then I proceed to make fun of that guy because obviously I was not talking about the material of the case a dap or dac is made of, I was talking more about the electronics inside, but I even have the decency of explaining that guy that even the case can have effects in the sound and if you read carefully it was me who in my explanation brought up the RF.

Now you want me to be responsible for what sony claims? LOL another low move to discredit me has been exposed
you've been doing the best job at discrediting yourself IMO. starting with the constant LMAO trololo HYPER LOL tone of your posts. you might be surprised but this usually doesn't convey a notion of someone serious. (I know, mind blown^_^).

then your argumentation has some pretty big flaws, and so far all you've done is paint over with your overconfidence instead of addressing them. simply dismissing some issues will have us believe that you're not honest about this or that you are simply ignorant about why we would insist on those flaws. again, whatever is really going on, your posts do not inspire trust, or expertise for that matter.

volume matching is not even a concern when you can easily hear how 2 dacs have different sound signatures and those caracteristics can be identified regardless of volume
this is a good example of what I'm talking about. so the matter at hand in this off topic(it's a topic about cables... yeah), is to try and properly identify audible differences between DACs. do you think it's smart to argue that we don't need to care about an audible difference(volume level) while testing for audible differences? even if the actual differences happened to be massive and very distinctive, you're still defending a nonsensical testing method. that's not the mentality of someone who cares much about facts. it looks more like the argument of someone who's lazy and tries to get away without doing things properly.

look down on others all you want, you're not the only one doing so in the forum. if I had to moderate everybody with a big ego, I'd go mad. but your posts do speak for you and so far in this topic they don't place you as high as you think they do. I don't know you in anyway so all my impressions come from reading those few posts here. and the impression I get, apparently shared by others, is that of a youngster boasting about his own ignorance. I doubt very much that it's what you're trying to convey to us, so I can only suggest to spend a little more time and effort in writing your posts.
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 10:04 AM Post #1,315 of 2,686

aerospace33

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you've been doing the best job at discrediting yourself IMO. starting with the constant LMAO trololo HYPER LOL tone of your posts. you might be surprised but this usually doesn't convey a notion of someone serious. (I know, mind blown^_^).

then your argumentation has some pretty big flaws, and so far all you've done is paint over with your overconfidence instead of addressing them. simply dismissing some issues will have us believe that you're not honest about this or that you are simply ignorant about why we would insist on those flaws. again, whatever is really going on, your posts do not inspire trust, or expertise for that matter.


this is a good example of what I'm talking about. so the matter at hand in this off topic(it's a topic about cables... yeah), is to try and properly identify audible differences between DACs. do you think it's smart to argue that we don't need to care about an audible difference(volume level) while testing for audible differences? even if the actual differences happened to be massive and very distinctive, you're still defending a nonsensical testing method. that's not the mentality of someone who cares much about facts. it looks more like the argument of someone who's lazy and tries to get away without doing things properly.

look down on others all you want, you're not the only one doing so in the forum. if I had to moderate everybody with a big ego, I'd go mad. but your posts do speak for you and so far in this topic they don't place you as high as you think they do. I don't know you in anyway so all my impressions come from reading those few posts here. and the impression I get, apparently shared by others, is that of a youngster boasting about his own ignorance. I doubt very much that it's what you're trying to convey to us, so I can only suggest to spend a little more time and effort in writing your posts.

It's as if people go out of their way to avoid the science.
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 11:17 AM Post #1,316 of 2,686

JaeYoon

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Wait a second! you are now trying to blame me and demand that I respond in behalf of sony's claims? BIG ULTRA LOL. let me remind you that the reason SOMEBODY ELSE posted about that sony walkman was to attack me for saying that materials change the sound, then I proceed to make fun of that guy because obviously I was not talking about the material of the case a dap or dac is made of, I was talking more about the electronics inside, but I even have the decency of explaining that guy that even the case can have effects in the sound and if you read carefully it was me who in my explanation brought up the RF.

Now you want me to be responsible for what sony claims? LOL another low move to discredit me has
At least you brought up your points! You didn't run away completely!

So how do exactly did you see this? "it's the internal processing inside the chip that reconstructs the analog signal where you start seeing the first differences in sound, thats why is so funny when they talk about a perfectly converted signal."
So you are saying your product you purchased, is showing you that it is reconstructing the conversion and altering it with all the expensive materials that are inside.

@bigshot and @gregorio
Would you like to recommend our man here for some DACs that you can confirm are audibly transparent not sold by companies that alter the sound intentionally to sound different.
Thanks :p

Also electro please don't laugh at @Kammerat Rebekka there is plenty of proof that an Iphone 6 can compete with Chord products.

https://kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6s-plus-audio-quality.htm

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/10/measurements-apple-iphone-4-iphone-6.html?m=1
Edit: Unfortunately archimago and ken did not compare the chord products to them
But the point of these sources is to show that even an iphone is capable of producing an audibly transparent audio signal at much lower price for us working class humans to enjoy :p

There two places to check out how even an iphone 6 can produce high fidelity audio.

Archimago shows good data on tiny differences between the phones. But whether tiny differences are audible to average human ear is the big debate that is supposed to be what this thread is going on about.

Several of the people here such as @bigshot is not concerned of the numbers that the chord dave can pull off if he can't detect it audibly. What is the purpose for someone such as him to spend 2 grand on a item that has really good numbers but humans have a really hard time detecting.

I honestly have nothing against audiophiles who do choose to improve every aspect of their equipment. But this thread wants to discuss if those improvement in numbers is even audible between expensive cables and solid state dacs.
 
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Nov 15, 2018 at 11:23 AM Post #1,317 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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you've been doing the best job at discrediting yourself IMO. starting with the constant LMAO trololo HYPER LOL tone of your posts. you might be surprised but this usually doesn't convey a notion of someone serious. (I know, mind blown^_^).

then your argumentation has some pretty big flaws, and so far all you've done is paint over with your overconfidence instead of addressing them. simply dismissing some issues will have us believe that you're not honest about this or that you are simply ignorant about why we would insist on those flaws. again, whatever is really going on, your posts do not inspire trust, or expertise for that matter.


this is a good example of what I'm talking about. so the matter at hand in this off topic(it's a topic about cables... yeah), is to try and properly identify audible differences between DACs. do you think it's smart to argue that we don't need to care about an audible difference(volume level) while testing for audible differences? even if the actual differences happened to be massive and very distinctive, you're still defending a nonsensical testing method. that's not the mentality of someone who cares much about facts. it looks more like the argument of someone who's lazy and tries to get away without doing things properly.

look down on others all you want, you're not the only one doing so in the forum. if I had to moderate everybody with a big ego, I'd go mad. but your posts do speak for you and so far in this topic they don't place you as high as you think they do. I don't know you in anyway so all my impressions come from reading those few posts here. and the impression I get, apparently shared by others, is that of a youngster boasting about his own ignorance. I doubt very much that it's what you're trying to convey to us, so I can only suggest to spend a little more time and effort in writing your posts.

at least I explain and give reason for every ULTRA LOL that I writte, you instead, try to give me professional psychological evaluations for every ultra lol.... that is funny to me but I won't say ultra lol to you because apparently you get very offended
 
Nov 15, 2018 at 11:49 AM Post #1,318 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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Jae Yoon says: At least you brought up your points! <<<< at least? what post of mine doesn't bring up points?>>>>You didn't run away completely! <<<< who says I ran away and how you come to that conclusion?>>>

So how do exactly did you see this? "it's the internal processing inside the chip that reconstructs the analog signal where you start seeing the first differences in sound, thats why is so funny when they talk about a perfectly converted signal."
So you are saying your product you purchased, is showing you that it is reconstructing the conversion and altering it with all the expensive materials that are inside.<<<yes that is what is happening exactly, the internal processing of the chip interprets the 1 and 0's you all love to talk about so much, and yes the materials used also alter the sound for the good or for the bad and weather they are expensive materials or not, and yes thats what my thats what the product i purchased is showing me, just like any other product i purchased.>>>>

@bigshot and @gregorio
Would you like to recommend our man here for some DACs that you can confirm are audibly transparent not sold by companies that alter the sound intentionally to sound different.
Thanks :p <<<<<no need to bother I already asked about the 300 dollar product that performs like a 5000 dac, got ignored but I didnt bother to continue asking for proof like they do to me. I won't establish more converdation with those individuals due to the way they so cheaply used low moves to discredit me, I exposed their praactices and that was the end for me.

Also electro please don't laugh at @Kammerat Rebekka there is plenty of proof that an Iphone 6 can compete with Chord products <<<<<< yeah i read all this very very long ago, im aware of the flatness of the iphone 4 and how a samsung 3 had also an good flat signal, that doesn't mean they are and reconstructing the asnalog signal in the same way or with the same performance.>>>>>

https://kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-6s-plus-audio-quality.htm

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2014/10/measurements-apple-iphone-4-iphone-6.html?m=1
Edit: Unfortunately archimago and ken did not compare the chord products to them
But the point of these sources is to show that even an iphone is capable of producing an audibly transparent audio signal at much lower price for us working class humans to enjoy :p

There two places to check out how even an iphone 6 can produce high fidelity audio <<<<sure body, actually I bet there are more than 2 places that show iphone outputs high res sound, but you fail to understand that not all high res audio is produced in the same way>>>>>

Archimago shows good data on tiny differences between the phones. But whether tiny differences are audible to average human ear is the big debate that is supposed to be what this thread is going on about. <<<<< let me solve it for you, yes differences are audible for the average human ear>>>>

Several of the people here such as @bigshot is not concerned of the numbers that the chord dave can pull off if he can't detect it audibly. What is the purpose for someone such as him to spend 2 grand on a item that has really good numbers but humans have a really hard time detecting.

I honestly have nothing against audiophiles who do choose to improve every aspect of their equipment. But this thread wants to discuss if those improvement in numbers is even audible between expensive cables and solid state dacs.<<<<<yeah thats what i keep saying, if you can't hear differences then be happy you get the max performance with your iphone but dont come and try to convince others of your limited perceptions>>>
 
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Nov 15, 2018 at 12:32 PM Post #1,319 of 2,686

Elecroestatico

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So succinct it's worth reposting! :ok_hand:



And there we have it again, that same Big Ultra Lol of the crazy mental patient. As you can't respond to a single question but only with grade school level insults, then clearly you care more about trolling than looking like a complete imbecile. You're wasting your time though, @castleofargh will simply delete all your troll posts.

G
thank you for the insults and the valuable info you posted in your reply, Thats what a mental patient would say right? lol Now I highly suggest you do not put words into moderator's mouth, saying he will do something means you want to gain control in his decisions and thats not very respectful either body. Deleting posts that I have been exchanging with others interested in the thread would be a disrespectful move for them and sure they could question the values of such moderator. So learning respect that matters like don't treat others with admin decisions that you can't take makes you look like like you wanna be the boss and they most do what you tell them to do so, that, body, is more important than debating how respectful my lol's are.

one thing is for sure, you got a lot to learn about respect and im so glad you are not a moderator, it will be devastating for this forum and this thred in particular.
 
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Nov 15, 2018 at 12:59 PM Post #1,320 of 2,686

JaeYoon

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@Elecroestatico
You failed to understand when I mean audibly transparent audio.
It means audio heared within the realms of a human.

You can claim the average humans can hear tiny changes in differences between those graphed output. Do you have any data to prove that?
I have a site that explains information about the limitations our ear has.
https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Also high res audio that is 24 bits in actual form and above is not actually listenable for the average human.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded.415361/
What you failed to understand is the point I'm trying to make is that the iphone 6 can make audio that has artifacts below human hearing.

That is your failure. Your inability to prove that your ears can prove that you can hear the artifacts that the ear can't really pick up.
 

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