How do I convince people that audio cables DO NOT make a difference
Nov 1, 2020 at 7:16 AM Post #1,862 of 3,452

havarduf

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For me the single biggest different I've gotten from a cable is the Sablon 2020 Panatela Reserve USB Cable. If you follow the thread on it on What's Best Forum as well other reviews, you'll read nothing but raves and even though it costs $750 for the powered version required for my Chord Hugo TT2, it has absolute brought clarity, speed, tonality, and authority that I didn't even know I was missing from my system.

What's very noticeable is the texture in the music and instruments. I thought I was already having that in instruments like bass guitar or drums but they are now so much more clearer and well-defined. Notes are no longer mere notes, you can hear so much of the instrumentation behind them. Drums and percussion are so well-defined that no matter how busy layered everything else are in the track, you don't lose sense of them. Things just don't get muddled.

I think when you get to the point where you have a high-end system, a cable like this is like night and day. The power and data are on separate cable runs, as you can see below. And if you're in Los Angeles and want to have a listen, as well as test out your headphones (the higher end the better of course), feel free to DM me:

Sablon Audio

IMG_20200930_112547.jpg
IMG_20200930_112603.jpg
20200615_145513_HDR.jpg

Custom PC --> Sablon 2020 Panatela Reserva Elite powered USB Cable --> Chord HUGO TT2 --> Sommer Epilogue XLR Cable --> Cayin HA-300 DHT 300b Tube Amp (Psvane ACME 300b + NOS Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base tubes) --> Mavismodz custom 4-core OCC copper balanced cable with Furutech miniXLR & 4-pin XLR terminations --> Audeze LCD-3 Fazor headphone/ BJC Ten White Speaker Cable --> Tekton Lore Reference Speakers

Come on man...
It's a USB cable transferring digital signals. Sorry, but you have been ripped off.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 7:19 AM Post #1,863 of 3,452

taffy2207

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I have quality gear.

How much for an ounce, my man?

I'm British, I'm talking about quality Tea of course :relieved:

For me the single biggest different I've gotten from a cable is the Sablon 2020 Panatela Reserve USB Cable. If you follow the thread on it on What's Best Forum as well other reviews, you'll read nothing but raves and even though it costs $750 for the powered version required for my Chord Hugo TT2, it has absolute brought clarity, speed, tonality, and authority that I didn't even know I was missing from my system.

What's very noticeable is the texture in the music and instruments. I thought I was already having that in instruments like bass guitar or drums but they are now so much more clearer and well-defined. Notes are no longer mere notes, you can hear so much of the instrumentation behind them. Drums and percussion are so well-defined that no matter how busy layered everything else are in the track, you don't lose sense of them. Things just don't get muddled.

I think when you get to the point where you have a high-end system, a cable like this is like night and day. The power and data are on separate cable runs, as you can see below. And if you're in Los Angeles and want to have a listen, as well as test out your headphones (the higher end the better of course), feel free to DM me:

Sablon Audio





Custom PC --> Sablon 2020 Panatela Reserva Elite powered USB Cable --> Chord HUGO TT2 --> Sommer Epilogue XLR Cable --> Cayin HA-300 DHT 300b Tube Amp (Psvane ACME 300b + NOS Sylvania 6SN7W Metal Base tubes) --> Mavismodz custom 4-core OCC copper balanced cable with Furutech miniXLR & 4-pin XLR terminations --> Audeze LCD-3 Fazor headphone/ BJC Ten White Speaker Cable --> Tekton Lore Reference Speakers

I took one thing from your post, that you probably work in Sales / Marketing. Lots of flowery language, no negatives, links to positive reviews, seller link etc. All anecdotal. All sales pitch, blather.

I'm sure people will stand up and applaud your post with unbridled enthusiasm in other parts of the forum, here not so much.

And inviting people to your home during a pandemic? That's incredibly irresponsible.
 
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Nov 1, 2020 at 12:20 PM Post #1,864 of 3,452

colonelkernel8

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I know nothing of the science behind cable materials and the effect they have on sound, but without a doubt the Moon Audio Black Dragon cable improved the sound over the stock cable for my Focal Utopia. For me it smoothed out some of the brighter sounds that the Utopia can exhibit at certain time, making the headphone significantly more versatile over a wider range of music.
So your cable is acting as a low pass filter? That doesn’t sound good.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:18 PM Post #1,865 of 3,452

jambaj0e

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How much for an ounce, my man?

I'm British, I'm talking about quality Tea of course :relieved:



I took one thing from your post, that you probably work in Sales / Marketing. Lots of flowery language, no negatives, links to positive reviews, seller link etc. All anecdotal. All sales pitch, blather.

I'm sure people will stand up and applaud your post with unbridled enthusiasm in other parts of the forum, here not so much.

And inviting people to your home during a pandemic? That's incredibly irresponsible.

Lol No, I'm not in sales, and I could care less if you won't be as enthusiastic as I am with the Sablon cable since I listen to hours of music daily and I am relishing on the improvements I'm hearing. I haven't really heard any negatives from it compared to my previous USB cables (Audioquest Cinnamon, Kimber USB-AG), and there's no way I'm going back to those other cables, not when I'm hearing such sonic bliss.

IMG_20201027_224225.jpg


And no, it's not just digital signal, if you've read about digital time domain and cable geometry and how they affect USB transport. Unlike sending data to a hard drive where there is error correction (the destination can detect in data packet and error and request the source for correction) that doesn't happen with USB audio. Go read up on what Gordon Rankin, the guy who introduced asynchronous USB transfer to the audio world, says about how USB is not just digital signals. He has listened to thousands of USB cables, he knows the difference:

Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies

And yes, my friend and I did pure blind tests on 6 USB cables at The SourceAV from a DAP to an Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker (which we also take out of the chain during the test) to a Chord DAVE to an Audeze LCD-4z, and we can definitely hear the different sonic signatures between each cables. All 3 of us can, and only two cables we'd get mixed up as being too close to each other.

IMG_20200930_145346.jpg


As for anyone coming over, I have had a few people over, but only once they've shown they've taken the test recently, wear mask the entire time, and keep social distance even in the room. I'm tested twice a week on my job, so I'm very aware of having a strict COVID protocol. But you're right, it's still wishful thinking right now. Oh well, a lot more listening enjoyment for myself, lol.
 
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Nov 1, 2020 at 1:25 PM Post #1,866 of 3,452

InstantSilence

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Lol No, I'm not in sales, and I could care less if you won't be as enthusiastic as I am with the Sablon cable since I listen to hours of music daily and I am relishing on the improvements I'm hearing. I haven't really heard any negatives from it compared to my previous USB cables (Audioquest Cinnamon, Kimber USB-AG), and there's no way I'm going back to those other cables, not when I'm hearing such sonic bliss.

And no, it's not just digital signal, if you've read about digital time domain and cable geometry and how they affect USB transport. Unlike sending data to a hard drive where there is error correction (the destination can detect in data packet and error and request the source for correction) that doesn't happen with USB audio. Go read up on what Gordon Rankin, the guy who introduced asynchronous USB transfer to the audio world, says about how USB is not just digital signals. He has listened to thousands of USB cables, he knows the difference:

Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies

And yes, my friend and I did pure blind tests on 6 USB cables at The SourceAV from a DAP to an Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker (which we also take out of the chain during the test) to a Chord DAVE to an Audeze LCD-4z, and we can definitely hear the different sonic signatures between each cables. All 3 of us can, and only two cables we'd get mixed up as being too close to each other.

IMG_20200930_145346.jpg

As for anyone coming over, I have had a few people over, but only once they've shown they've taken the test recently, wear mask the entire time, and keep social distance even in the room. I'm tested twice a week on my job, so I'm very aware of having a strict COVID protocol. But you're right, it's still wishful thinking right now. Oh well, a lot more listening enjoyment for myself, lol.
Exactly! Remember a lot of these folks that deny cables make a sonic difference.... They have cheap starter gear around 500 bucks... So of course... Those electronics don't offer the transparency needed to find differences in cables.... So, you'll get called a troll or your testing is just not good enough..
But their *testing * (insert farting noise here) with 500 rigs.. At best.... Is worthy

Lol
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:28 PM Post #1,867 of 3,452

jambaj0e

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Exactly! Remember a lot of these folks that deny cables make a sonic difference.... They have cheap starter gear around 500 bucks... So of course... Those electronics don't offer the transparency needed to find differences in cables.... So, you'll get called a troll or your testing is just not good enough..
But their *testing * (insert farting noise here) with 500 rigs.. At best.... Is worthy

Lol

Exactly! On a highly resolving system like what I have (Chord Hugo TT2 to Cayin HA-300 tube amp with Psvane ACME 300b + NOS Sylvania 6sn7W metal base tubes to Audeze LCD-3F with about $1500 in total wire cost) changing cables absolutely made a noticeable, and at times like the Sablon 2020, a very noticeable difference!

On much lower end systems, you'll only hear subtle, if not minimal differences.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:31 PM Post #1,868 of 3,452

InstantSilence

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Exactly! On a highly resolving system like what I have (Chord Hugo TT2 to Cayin HA-300 tube amp with Psvane ACME 300b + NOS Sylvania 6sn7W metal base tubes to Audeze LCD-3F with about $1500 in total wire cost) changing cables absolutely made a noticeable, and at times like the Sablon 2020, a very noticeable difference!

On much lower end systems, you'll only hear subtle, if not minimal differences.
The rigs you explain are electronics these guys aren't allowed to even read reviews on, they are priced well above the hd650s and other low end, outdated tech they use.
Everyone has a wallet, and a stop loss. It's ok to not be able to afford.
Its not ok to use poop equipment and call it *testing * and being mad at people that play ball at higher level.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:42 PM Post #1,869 of 3,452

InstantSilence

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Lol No, I'm not in sales, and I could care less if you won't be as enthusiastic as I am with the Sablon cable since I listen to hours of music daily and I am relishing on the improvements I'm hearing. I haven't really heard any negatives from it compared to my previous USB cables (Audioquest Cinnamon, Kimber USB-AG), and there's no way I'm going back to those other cables, not when I'm hearing such sonic bliss.

IMG_20201027_224225.jpg

And no, it's not just digital signal, if you've read about digital time domain and cable geometry and how they affect USB transport. Unlike sending data to a hard drive where there is error correction (the destination can detect in data packet and error and request the source for correction) that doesn't happen with USB audio. Go read up on what Gordon Rankin, the guy who introduced asynchronous USB transfer to the audio world, says about how USB is not just digital signals. He has listened to thousands of USB cables, he knows the difference:

Gordon Rankin on why USB audio quality varies

And yes, my friend and I did pure blind tests on 6 USB cables at The SourceAV from a DAP to an Innuos Phoenix USB Reclocker (which we also take out of the chain during the test) to a Chord DAVE to an Audeze LCD-4z, and we can definitely hear the different sonic signatures between each cables. All 3 of us can, and only two cables we'd get mixed up as being too close to each other.

IMG_20200930_145346.jpg

As for anyone coming over, I have had a few people over, but only once they've shown they've taken the test recently, wear mask the entire time, and keep social distance even in the room. I'm tested twice a week on my job, so I'm very aware of having a strict COVID protocol. But you're right, it's still wishful thinking right now. Oh well, a lot more listening enjoyment for myself, lol.
Btw
Have you tried Norne Silvergarde with the 4z? It cleans up the mids a little more and brings ever more resol.
The 4z is so special that it can give so much resolution and detail with being so so so easy to listen to. Not a bit of fatigue.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:42 PM Post #1,870 of 3,452

jambaj0e

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The rigs you explain are electronics these guys aren't allowed to even read reviews on, they are priced well above the hd650s and other low end, outdated tech they use.
Everyone has a wallet, and a stop loss. It's ok to not be able to afford.
Its not ok to use poop equipment and call it *testing * and being mad at people that play ball at higher level.

Yeah, and I don't rag on someone for having a lower end system, but if they only use that as their experience and call it as a fact over those of us with higher end rigs, then if have to school someone, lol.

It's like someone who has a Honda telling someone with a Ferrari or a Porsche how much tires don't matter for handling. Yeah maybe on your Honda it won't matter as much but it sure will on a Porsche or Ferrari.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:44 PM Post #1,871 of 3,452

jambaj0e

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Btw
Have you tried Norne Silvergarde with the 4z? It cleans up the mids a little more and brings ever more resol.
The 4z is so special that it can give so much resolution and detail with being so so so easy to listen to. Not a bit of fatigue.

I haven't, but I'm not a fan of the 4z over the original 4. There's something about it that sounds a bit too bright. I actually love the lcd-3 over the lcd-4 because of the wider Soundstage. Do I lose some resolution and transient speed? Sure I will but I live the sweeter wider sound of the lcd-3 on my system
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:48 PM Post #1,872 of 3,452

InstantSilence

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Yeah, and I don't rag on someone for having a lower end system, but if they only use that as their experience and call it as a fact over those of us with higher end rigs, then if have to school someone, lol.

It's like someone who has a Honda telling someone with a Ferrari or a Porsche how much tires don't matter for handling. Yeah maybe on your Honda it won't matter as much but it sure will on a Porsche or Ferrari.
A lot of the starters in the hobby hang out here.. They definitely need the schooling
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:51 PM Post #1,873 of 3,452

bfreedma

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The rigs you explain are electronics these guys aren't allowed to even read reviews on, they are priced well above the hd650s and other low end, outdated tech they use.
Everyone has a wallet, and a stop loss. It's ok to not be able to afford.
Its not ok to use poop equipment and call it *testing * and being mad at people that play ball at higher level.

Not that price is always related to quality, but if you want to check my sig, I’m sure you’ll find well over your $500 arbitrary system cost. I only mention this as you seem to believe that expensive gear somehow impacts digital signals. How do those 0s and 1s “know” the cost of gear?...

Digital signal transmission is based on science, not the random opinions of audiophiles. If you can produce any actual evidence supporting your claims, now would be an awesome time to produce it, Sorry, links to a vendor‘s marketing materials does not constitute evidence - hopefully, the reason for that is obvious.
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 1:56 PM Post #1,874 of 3,452

InstantSilence

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Not that price is always related to quality, but if you want to check my sig, I’m sure you’ll find well over your $500 arbitrary system cost. I only mention this as you seem to believe that expensive gear somehow impacts digital signals. How do those 0s and 1s “know” the cost of gear?...

Digital signal transmission is based on science, not the random opinions of audiophiles. If you can produce any actual evidence supporting your claims, now would be an awesome time to produce it, Sorry, links to a vendor‘s marketing materials does not constitute evidence - hopefully, the reason for that is obvious.
Quality components and electronics matter, typically, while not always, but definitely Most times.
Higher end finer gear cost more
 
Nov 1, 2020 at 2:17 PM Post #1,875 of 3,452

bfreedma

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Quality components and electronics matter, typically, while not always, but definitely Most times.
Higher end finer gear cost more

If that’s your idea of ”evidence”, I don’t know what to say.

It’s disheartening to see people who don’t appear to have a basic understanding of how digital audio works making claims that don’t align at all with the actual technical implementation being discussed.

Oh well, someone has to help fund expensive cars for the audiophile cable industry. Hope you enjoy being taken along for the ride.
 

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