High Quality Headphone Amp Recomendations (for listening and mixing)

[nothuh]

I'm in the process of setting up a little project studio for myself and would like to add a nice headphone amp to it that will enhance my music listening experience without coloring the sound so much that it will ruin my mix.

Currently I am using a MOTU 896HD audio interface and SONY MDR-7509 Headphones. I absolutely love my MDRs and the MOTU has great DACs and a good headphone out with lots of gain, but I still feel that there is something lacking in the over all sound quality that could be filled by a really nice headphone amp. I've been looking at all of the different products on HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears (especially the tube amplified models) but none of the product descriptions say if they are suitable for mixing applications or not so I was hoping to get some advice from someone experienced with headphone amps for studio use. I think I'll probably want to actually listen to a few different headphone amps before I spend that much money on one, but it would be nice to get some input on which products to look for before I start searching out places that will let me test them. Thanks!

 

[nothuh]

My question seems to be getting ignored, perhaps because I came off as a bit ignorant about headphone amps. Well I am. After lurking the forum a bit (which admittedly I should have done before posting this) I think I have a slightly better grasp of what I'm looking for (but not by much

). Are there any Amps that are particularly well suited to the Sony MDR-7509HDs (or to the v6/ 7506 for that matter) and if so, would it also work well with audiophile headphones should I choose to purchase a pair? And in terms of price, basically I'll pay whatever it takes to make em sound good, but I really wouldn't want to pay anything over a grand (unless someone convinces me otherwise

).

 

[Sovkiller]

Mainly all headphone amp manufacturers sell directly to the customers, they do not use any local, or any brick and mortar store, that you can visit, to test their amps, unless you attend to on of the headfi meetings, I do not see how you can try several amps at the same time...there wil be in my one international meeting in Florida, that will be your optimal place to target...

 

[nothuh]

I would very much like the details of when and where that meeting will be.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothuh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would very much like the details of when and where that meeting will be.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f93/ca...dition-256763/

 

[nothuh]

Thanks, I think I just might attend that!

It would be nice to get some actual recommendations in this thread though. Also if I get a headphone amp its going to need to share the main outs with my genelec 8020s. What is a good simple monitor manger?

[edit] Ok I'm seriously considering getting a Grace Design m902. It seems to fit the bill for being reference quality and the toslink in is really useful for my current setup. What do you all think about it? Will it be that much of an improvement over the headphone out of my MOTU 896HD?

 

[nnotis]

I mix on headphones. And also use a MOTU interface. I have the 828mkII, which I thought had a decent headphone amp and DAC. Then I got a Lavry DA10. My mixes are better now.

I know that head-fier Iron Dreamer has done direct comparisons between the Grace m902, Benchmark DAC1, and Lavry DA10. Do a search and read up. If memory serves me correctly, he thought the Grace was not in league with the other two. And he preferred the DA10 to the DAC1. All three are pro-audio units, so they have all of the ins and outs you need.

You're wise to use the toslink connection, by the way. I've found, that even a $250 SPIDF cable is sub-par to a 6 dollar optical cable.

 

[Tarkovsky]

Whatever these blockheads tell you, you can't mix on headphones unless your mixing monoaural or binaural. They have loads of use in the studio, wonderful detail, but even pricey electrostatics won't give you speaker like imaging. Sorry to shove **** in your face, but I'm stating the obvious here.

Oh and if you're mixing just for people to listen on phones that's fine.

 

[nothuh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnotis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I mix on headphones. And also use a MOTU interface. I have the 828mkII, which I thought had a decent headphone amp and DAC. Then I got a Lavry DA10. My mixes are better now. I know that head-fier Iron Dreamer has done direct comparisons between the Grace m902, Benchmark DAC1, and Lavry DA10. Do a search and read up. If memory serves me correctly, he thought the Grace was not in league with the other two. And he preferred the DA10 to the DAC1. All three are pro-audio units, so they have all of the ins and outs you need. You're wise to use the toslink connection, by the way. I've found, that even a $250 SPIDF cable is sub-par to a 6 dollar optical cable.

I really don't need a new DAC at the moment. The DA10 and DAC1 are both DACs with headphone amps thrown on as an after thought while the m902 is the exact opposite. Also they wouldn't fit into my current setup since my MOTU only outputs ADAT optical and they both need toslink. The toslink in of the m902 is just an added bonus that will let me connect my Mac Pro's optical out directly to the amp without going through my MOTU.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkovsky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whatever these blockheads tell you, you can't mix on headphones unless your mixing monoaural or binaural. They have loads of use in the studio, wonderful detail, but even pricey electrostatics won't give you speaker like imaging. Sorry to shove **** in your face, but I'm stating the obvious here. Oh and if you're mixing just for people to listen on phones that's fine.

I have heard that said before, but I've never really understood why it is so. I have a good pair of monitors but the room acoustics are crap (large oddly shaped concrete room with extra corners all over the place, a pyramidal ceiling, a tile floor, and furniture that seems to resonate with every note of my sub) and figured it would be easier and cheaper to set myself up with a really nice headphone system. And also I prefer to listen to music on headphones. If you HAD to mix using headphones, what kind of setup would you want? What headphones? What amp? Would you get a dedicated DAC? Would you add some sort of signal processor to compensate for the headphones? Please advise

 

[WindowsX]

I'm grace m902 owner and used to think that grace's dac is OK but not so damn great.....Until one day I did comparison between DA10 and grace m902.....

I use m902 as main headphone output since DA10 has no analog input with Nordost Valkyrja balaced IC (Well, these cables are way more expensive than DA10 itself so forget about signal dropping problems).

After an hour of AB Test between these two models, without a doubt, grace's far greater than DA10 in terms of naturality, revealing and clarity. However, DA10 has more impact and tons of American's tastes.

Right now I really want to try out Dac1 vs grace's dac since DA10 seems to be Dac1's competitor and lose to grace miserably.

 

[ironbut]

I'm not personally familiar with the Sonys your using but I'm sure a search would reveal opinions on tube amps that have a synergy with them. Bear in mind though, many amp/headphone preferences have more to do with a pleasant listening experience rather than a revealing tool for mixing. I do lots of editing and would suggest the amp I use but it's $2k. Another thing you might consider is to have your MOTU modded. Black Lion has a great reputation for elevating the level of interfaces far above what you could get for twice the price. They're very reasonable and for the mod and a used headphone amp, you could probably still come in under $1k.
Motu Modifications

 

[nothuh]

Ok I decided to go with the Grace and a pair of Sennheiser HD650s to see how they compare to my 7509s. Thanks for your help everybody, especially ironbut for the MOTU modifications link. Out of curiosity what amp do you use ironbut?

 

[aych]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarkovsky /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whatever these blockheads tell you, you can't mix on headphones unless your mixing monoaural or binaural. They have loads of use in the studio, wonderful detail, but even pricey electrostatics won't give you speaker like imaging. Sorry to shove **** in your face, but I'm stating the obvious here. Oh and if you're mixing just for people to listen on phones that's fine.

I have to agree. I do a bit of recording myself and mixing. Nothing can match with speakers. Even in live concert environments, if I can find myself a pair of decent monitors that can crank the volume, i'll use them, and only use the headphones for solo channel eq-ing.