[junix]

But, I will soon be reviewing the 8-wire Lionheart with comparisons to the 4-wire variant, so I'll have more to say then.

Looking forward to this!!

 

[Bosk]

Thanks for your answers! 8-wire cables are a direct upgrade from their 4-wire variants judging from your impressions.

 

[Deezel177]

Thanks for your answers! 8-wire cables are a direct upgrade from their 4-wire variants judging from your impressions.

Keep in mind that - depending on the brand - 8-wire cables will be less ergonomic than 4-wire cables. That, and the price premium usually stings too.

 

[Wyville]

Sorry if this has been asked previously, but broadly speaking what sorts of changes will a cable typically exhibit in an 8-wire configuration as opposed to 4-wire?

I can't speak from experience, but I had an interesting discussion with Eric (@EffectAudio) about that and he explained that it is quite unpredictable what an 8-wire version will sound like compared to the 4-wire. Basically the only way to know for certain is making the cable and having a listen. I find that really interesting!

Here is a quick quote:

You're right, its a wild card. With 8-wires we are almost certain some frequencies will be boosted and technicalities evolve but in actuality, we have no idea how it would actually sound until we listened to it.

 

[junix]

I can't speak from experience, but I had an interesting discussion with Eric (@EffectAudio) about that and he explained that it is quite unpredictable what an 8-wire version will sound like compared to the 4-wire. Basically the only way to know for certain is making the cable and having a listen. I find that really interesting!

IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.

Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?

 

[Wyville]

IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.

Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?

Tough choice (and I wish I would have to make it for myself )! Certainly talk to Eric. I think they are extremely busy at the moment, but he will get back to you as soon as he can and is always a great guy to talk to.

 

[Deezel177]

IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.

Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?

The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart, but in terms of sound, the two don't share much in common. Comparing their 4-wire variants, I find the Lionheart more musical, bodied and rich, while the Leonidas is more relaxed and neutral-natural. The Lionheart has the richer, thicker and denser low-end, while the Leonidas's bass is well-known for its sub-bass rumble and dynamism. The midrange is where I feel the Lionheart has the clear upper-hand, with a more euphonic and harmonic presentation. Vocals and instruments sound stunningly vibrant, meaty and beautiful in tone. Overtones enrich energetic fundamentals and give the Lionheart a vintage tube-like voice. By comparison, the Leonidas's midrange is more transparent and less theatrical, but it lacks a bit of soul compared to its brethren. The treble is really a toss-up for me. The Lionheart has the smoother and less-pronounced treble, but because of its great extension, the presentation never veers towards darkness, incoherence or congestion. It's a natural top-end with admirable amounts of air and an impressive amount of clarity. The Leonidas, by comparison, has the sparklier lower treble, but I don't think it extends as far as the Lionheart does. There's a slight dullness in the upper treble that makes its top-end slightly bottom-heavy, which was never my preference to begin with. But, it is clean and clear, even if it's not my tonal cup of tea.

 

[junix]

The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart, but in terms of sound, the two don't share much in common. Comparing their 4-wire variants, I find the Lionheart more musical, bodied and rich, while the Leonidas is more relaxed and neutral-natural. The Lionheart has the richer, thicker and denser low-end, while the Leonidas's bass is well-known for its sub-bass rumble and dynamism. The midrange is where I feel the Lionheart has the clear upper-hand, with a more euphonic and harmonic presentation. Vocals and instruments sound stunningly vibrant, meaty and beautiful in tone. Overtones enrich energetic fundamentals and give the Lionheart a vintage tube-like voice. By comparison, the Leonidas's midrange is more transparent and less theatrical, but it lacks a bit of soul compared to its brethren. The treble is really a toss-up for me. The Lionheart has the smoother and less-pronounced treble, but because of its great extension, the presentation never veers towards darkness, incoherence or congestion. It's a natural top-end with admirable amounts of air and an impressive amount of clarity. The Leonidas, by comparison, has the sparklier lower treble, but I don't think it extends as far as the Lionheart does. There's a slight dullness in the upper treble that makes its top-end slightly bottom-heavy, which was never my preference to begin with. But, it is clean and clear, even if it's not my tonal cup of tea.

As long as I'm getting private reviews and comparisons..

Can you throw in the "standard" (calling it standard hurts.. such a masterpiece, I'll use quotation marks.. junix, you're talking to yourself again, stop it) Lionheart?

 

[Deezel177]

As long as I'm getting private reviews and comparisons..

Can you throw in the "standard" (calling it standard hurts.. such a masterpiece, I'll use quotation marks.. junix, you're talking to yourself again, stop it) Lionheart?

Uhh... do you mean include a comparison with the 4-wire Lionheart in the 8-wire Lionheart review? If so, there's no need to worry, I'm definitely doing that. The comparison I posted above is between the 4-wire Leonidas and the 4-wire Lionheart, as per the line, "Comparing their 4-wire variants..."

 

[junix]

Uhh... do you mean include a comparison with the 4-wire Lionheart in the 8-wire Lionheart review? If so, there's no need to worry, I'm definitely doing that. The comparison I posted above is between the 4-wire Leonidas and the 4-wire Lionheart, as per the line, "Comparing their 4-wire variants..."

Thnx man!
The start confused me a bit.. "The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart.."

 

[Deezel177]

Thnx man!
The start confused me a bit.. "The Leonidas as a 4-wire cable is automatically more ergonomic than the Lionheart.."

Ahh, gotcha. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[flinkenick]

Few words about Eos, which I am also really enjoying at the moment. The difference between Ares II and Eos is the plug and high quality platinum-based solder. People might expect these are just minor parts in comparison to the wire, but they contribute a rather large portion of the signature, if I would estimate maybe around 30% or more. One must not forget these form the contact point between the cable and the other parts of the chain, and influence aspects like the resistance of the signal. Eos is not my first experience with the Furutech / Platinum solder. A while back I had my plusSound GPC reterminated from 2.5 to 3.5 by MS, and they used their favorite combo at the time consisting of the Furutech plug with Mundorf silver/gold solder. When I got the cable back, it had lost its characteristic completely; it transformed from a warm natural sound to a clear, open sound, pretty much void from warmth; in an a way it resembled going from Zeus to Zeus-ADEL for me. Other characteristics as the stage and midrange remained similar, but the difference in tone was striking. I sent back the cable, and they replaced the Mundorf solder with the platinum solder, making it have the same plug/solder as the Eos. While the GPC still wasn't nearly as warm as it was first, it had a smoother, more natural signature.

So moving on to Eos, which is a variation of Ares II, but with a different signature. Ares II is warmer, while its lower treble is also a bit brighter. Eos has a more linear signature that comes closer to neutral, due to a slightly more elevated mid- to upper-treble. Not to the extent of something like Horus or 1960 4-wire which really pushes out microdetail, but its finer detail is more pronounced than Ares II, making it more resolved overall. It is a bit of a musical variation of neutral in a way, that sounds detailed, but presents it in a smooth, coherent manner. Its mid-bass is slightly elevated, but clear on impact, just very enjoyable to listen to, while it maintains a similar airiness as Ares II. While its treble is smoother, it is also more transparent; just a lovely lower treble tone. Overall, Ares II is warmer and darker, although its timbre is slightly more accurate for instruments in comparison. Eos on the other hand is more versatile for me, as I also enjoy synthetic-based music. Unfortunately I can't tell whether or nor people will find it complementary or worth the upgrade to Ares II if they already own it, but I personally do. I don't find Eos good for its pricerange; I find it good regardless of its price.

 

[twister6]

IMHO, the only thing they should know for sure is that doubling on the wire count should lower the resistance making (in theory) the cable a better match for lower impedance IEM's.

Khm, Leonidas or 8-wire Lionheart.. this is the question now!?

Exactly, doubling the amount of conductors will decrease the resistance of the cable. This is not even a theory, it's EE101 The automatic improvement - better efficiency where from the same source the sound should be louder. Another thing that is a common sense when doubling the wires, cable becomes stiffer, less pliable, which is OK with full size cans when sitting down, but could be a bit annoying with c/iems on the go. So, in general, you will see thicker cables with less efficient harder to drive high impedance headphones where 8 or even 16 conductors can make a difference, especially making them easier to drive when you sitting on the couch

In terms of a sound improvement, you can kind of generalize it to a degree, but it will all depend on a pair up of a specific source with a specific pair of c/iems. Don't assume the exact improvement in sound between two different iems.

 

[twister6]

... and another point I would like to make, since someone just ask me about the thickness of the wire vs doubling the amount of wires. Thicker wire, for example when going from 26awg to 23awg, is definitely more cost efficient vs doubling the amount of wires which drives the cost up (especially when you are dealing with gold/silver material). And in some cases thicker wire could still be more flexible than doubling the amount of wires. But you have to keep in mind the skin effect where it's known that electric signal travels mostly through a surface area of the conductor, not through the entire cross section of it. That is a reason why it's cheaper to plate the wires with more expensive material to get the sound improvement. So, when you have a thicker wire you only increase the surface by a small margin vs when you have twice as many wires - you are doubling the surface area for the signal to travel. This skin effect theory is also the reason behind litz cable which is a bunch of thin inter woven wires to increase the surface area for the signal to travel.

 

[kubig123]

... and another point I would like to make, since someone just ask me about the thickness of the wire vs doubling the amount of wires. Thicker wire, for example when going from 26awg to 23awg, is definitely more cost efficient vs doubling the amount of wires which drives the cost up (especially when you are dealing with gold/silver material). And in some cases thicker wire could still be more flexible than doubling the amount of wires. But you have to keep in mind the skin effect where it's known that electric signal travels mostly through a surface area of the conductor, not through the entire cross section of it. That is a reason why it's cheaper to plate the wires with more expensive material to get the sound improvement. So, when you have a thicker wire you only increase the surface by a small margin vs when you have twice as many wires - you are doubling the surface area for the signal to travel. This skin effect theory is also the reason behind litz cable which is a bunch of thin inter woven wires to increase the surface area for the signal to travel.

This is absolutely correct, but almost every wire used is made by several thin woven wires, litz or not. A solid cable would be extremely rigid to be used with earphones.
Therefore a 23awg cable would made by a higher number of this thin woven wires compared to a 26awg.

I think the main reason to go from 4 to 8 wires is that this solution is cheaper than engineering a brand new cable with a lower awg.