[FRGCWRU]

Hello Head-Fi,
 
It is about time I registered here, especially now that having a floorstanding stereo setup is no longer feasible for me and am restricted to headphones only.
 
I am currently trying to decide what purchase would be best for me, debating between three headphones: Ultrasone Edition 5, Audeze LCD-3, and the Final Audio Design Pandora X.
 
I am not completely new to the world of headphones; I have owned the Sennheiser HD595, Denon AH-D2000, Shure SRH1540 with various DAC and head-amp combinations, and currently own the Denon AH-D7100 with an iFi Nano iDSD DAC and Schiit Magni. Only both Denon headphones have left a positive impression on me. Not necessarily due to a superior quantity of bass, but because the headphones sound more "exciting" and less dry or clinical. The Shure and Sennheiser just seemed to produce sound to me, and were not daring in any way. If i just take Blu-ray movies as an example with lossless audio tracks, the Denon AH-D7100 can go from crystal clear controlled highs to low Hz output without any trouble whatsoever. It is especially the crisp highs and mids that continue to impress me in the Denon.
 
My music preference is 100% 24-bit classical music and lossless instrumental soundtracks along with the occasional movie--absolutely nothing else. I have no distinct preference to what I am searching for right now, as long as the headphones have the ability to give that "WOW" factor, and are somewhat comparable to full-range floorstanding speakers. Which is why I am veering towards the Audeze LCD-3 right now, but I would also want to consider the Ultrasone Edition 5 and the Final Audio Design Pandora X, but neither of them have much info on them, especially in relation to other headphones. What are the strengths and weaknesses of either in comparison to the LCD-3. Money is not a factor; I would just like the best headphone for me possible (yes I know there is always the Stax-SR009 but truth be told I do not think that one will satisfy my taste) and would be glad to hear input from anyone. Other headphone suggestions are of course also welcome.
 
Based on my experience with the Magni I will more than likely be purchasing the Schiit Mjolnir to accompany the headphone and will keep my excellent North Star Design Impulso as a DAC.
 
Thanks in advance for any help.
 
Regards.
 
EDIT: I think I might add that I have no possibility of testing any of these headphones myself prior to purchase.

 

[PedroH]

Why did you discard the STAX?

 

[Music Alchemist]

I'm getting the Sennheiser HD 800 and would recommend it, especially for classical.
 
If you research this site, you will find that most agree it is much better than the LCD-3 for that genre.

 

[FRGCWRU]

Why did you discard the STAX?

Well, from what I have read people seem to generally describe the headphone as being one of the best in terms of soundstage and also having a somewhat "ethereal" sound signature. While those are certainly things I find important in a headphone, I am still wary of buying an electrostatic headphone. Headphones are vastly different from speakers, but the electrostatic design choice in speakers always entails there will be a lack of low end. In full-range speakers they make up for this by adding a large driver for the low end, and there are loads of people that like these speakers, there is also a fair amount that really dislike the sound these kind of speakers produce. If I am going to spend this amount of money on a headphone I do not want to leave anything up to chance.

I'm getting the Sennheiser HD 800 and would recommend it, especially for classical.

If you research this site, you will find that most agree it is much better than the LCD-3 for that genre.

Classical has a wide variety of music though. In your opinion how does the Sennheiser HD 800 fair against the LCD-3 when playing The Rite of Spring or 1812 Overture, or the vast majority of organ music? Speaking hypothetically I would prefer a headphone that is 90% good in all classical music to a headphone that is 98% good in most classical music but lacks the lower end in some sub-genres. How different are the HD 595 and HD 800 in terms of sound signature? The 595s just like the 800s have a large following, which is why I jumped the gun on that one, but from the moment I bought it I was just never really that impressed for the price. The Shure SRH1540 are lauded by many an audiophile similarly, but it too left me for wanting more. I am not trying to bash the 800, but just as the Stax I am hesitant to buy it because I seem to be expecting something different from headphones than most people. I mean the Denon AH-D7100 is really unpopular here, yet I really dig it save for the plastic utilized in the design.

Maybe I am just expecting too much? I am looking for a sound signature similar to a floorstanding full-range speaker, which I know is extremely difficult--or perhaps impossible--to accomplish. Though, the Denon AH-D7100 still got me really excited, especially considering it is only a fourth of the price of the Ultrasone Edition 5 here while still managing to get relatively close to what I am looking for.

The loudspeakers I am replacing by the way are the latest Opera Quinta speakers driven by a Rotel RB-1582 & Rotel RC-1580.

Thanks for the responses.

Regards.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Well, from what I have read people seem to generally describe the headphone as being one of the best in terms of soundstage and also having a somewhat "ethereal" sound signature. While those are certainly things I find important in a headphone, I am still wary of buying an electrostatic headphone. Headphones are vastly different from speakers, but the electrostatic design choice in speakers always entails there will be a lack of low end. In full-range speakers they make up for this by adding a large driver for the low end, and there are loads of people that like these speakers, there is also a fair amount that really dislike the sound these kind of speakers produce. If I am going to spend this amount of money on a headphone I do not want to leave anything up to chance.
 
Classical has a wide variety of music though. In your opinion how does the Sennheiser HD 800 fair against the LCD-3 when playing The Rite of Spring or 1812 Overture, or the vast majority of organ music? Speaking hypothetically I would prefer a headphone that is 90% good in all classical music to a headphone that is 98% good in most classical music but lacks the lower end in some sub-genres. How different are the HD 595 and HD 800 in terms of sound signature? The 595s just like the 800s have a large following, which is why I jumped the gun on that one, but from the moment I bought it I was just never really that impressed for the price. The Shure SRH1540 are lauded by many an audiophile similarly, but it too left me for wanting more. I am not trying to bash the 800, but just as the Stax I am hesitant to buy it because I seem to be expecting something different from headphones than most people. I mean the Denon AH-D7100 is really unpopular here, yet I really dig it save for the plastic utilized in the design.
 
Maybe I am just expecting too much? I am looking for a sound signature similar to a floorstanding full-range speaker, which I know is extremely difficult--or perhaps impossible--to accomplish. Though, the Denon AH-D7100 still got me really excited, especially considering it is only a fourth of the price of the Ultrasone Edition 5 here while still managing to get relatively close to what I am looking for.
 
The loudspeakers I am replacing by the way are the latest Opera Quinta speakers driven by a Rotel RB-1582 & Rotel RC-1580.
 
Thanks for the responses.
 
Regards.

 
Electrostatic headphones aren't as limited as electrostatic speakers in this respect. FYI, the SR-009 has more bass quantity and quality than most of its brethren. Unfortunately, it requires a dedicated electrostatic headphone amplifier which can't be used with dynamic and planar magnetic headphones. Plus, you can't get the best out of them without one of the TOTL amps.
 
I don't know much about the HD 595.
 
The drivers in the HD 800 are angled, which enables it to emulate speakers better than most headphones. The LCD-3 has a more congested/intimate soundstage. Both are good choices, but bear in mind that everything else in the chain (amp, DAC, etc.) can affect what you hear.
 
Here is a good thread comparing the HD 800 and LCD-3. Pay special attention to the classical section.
 
Unless this won't affect your budget at all, it's not a good idea to spend thousands of dollars on audio equipment without auditioning it.

 

[Lorspeaker]

Maybe u already have a world beater.. DenonLover,
 
i bought a small  SMSL 40watt T-amp...modified my D7k cable into 4pin XLR...
plugged the D7k thru a pigtail cable with 4speaker-taps into the T-amp,
and hit the PLAY button...golly wow the control over the drivers, that excursion when the music is being played,
makes the Denon sound like no other...is it like a floorstander? not quite yet, but...
The phrrooommmm on FANFARE FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE, Copland...wow..1812 will blow the dentures.
 
u try it out on your 7100 ..with a more  established  brand if u wish.  
 

 

[FRGCWRU]

Thanks!
 
Good read.
 
It does make me a little worried though. He described the upper treble of the LCD-3 as somewhat lacking, which is what I love about the Denon. What I do find odd is how he gives the 800s and perfect 10 for classical, and with The Rite of Spring at that. Eiji Oue's version I own has some very deep bass sections in it, and just reading about the headphone in any headphone comparison the impression I get is always along the lines of "Other headphones might have more bass, the Sennheiser has a really commendable tight bass response". Which naturally is something really important in bass, but the bass has to be there as well--it has to be a perfect mix/compromise between the two, but there primarily is a tradeoff (It must not sound muddy and unnecessarily overwhelming, but it still needs to have presence). If the less amount of bass in the HD 800 compared to other headphones is a trait, then how can it reproduce the heavy bass instruments in Stravinsky's piece perfectly? And the mids and highs, would I like them? Is it a daring headphone in terms of sound reproduction (the Denon can portray the loud clanking and screeching noise of blades that hit each other accurately yet still not sound overbearingly harsh when listening to a classical piece)? Or is it just dry reiteration of tones without feel to it? How is the HD 800's build quality? I have heard and touched the HD 700 and in my opinion it felt rather flimsy just like the Denon AH-D7100 I have. Build quality was definitely a step back compared to the Denon AH-D2000's magnesium frame.
 
Anyway, if the LCD-3 has recessed mids as some reviews claim in comparison to the HD 800 I would probably go for the latter. How do the other headphones I mentioned stack up? Like the Final Audio Design Pandora X or the Ultrasone Edition 5, which both in my opinion have a very great design. Perhaps the Fostex TH-900 is something I should be looking at, but the Pan X and Ultrasone are easily more than twice the price, so that just leaves me curious how much more potential those might have.
 
Regards.

 

[Lorspeaker]

If the less amount of bass in the HD 800 compared to other headphones is a trait, then how can it reproduce the heavy bass instruments in Stravinsky's piece perfectly? 
 
 
If u get the HD800...this will come back n haunt u...
 
My Pandora VI dun have the whammmmm u like to hear in Eiji Oue's repertoire...(not heard the 10).
I love Oue .... 
 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Thanks!
 
Good read.
 
It does make me a little worried though. He described the upper treble of the LCD-3 as somewhat lacking, which is what I love about the Denon. What I do find odd is how he gives the 800s and perfect 10 for classical, and with The Rite of Spring at that. Eiji Oue's version I own has some very deep bass sections in it, and just reading about the headphone in any headphone comparison the impression I get is always along the lines of "Other headphones might have more bass, the Sennheiser has a really commendable tight bass response". Which naturally is something really important in bass, but the bass has to be there as well--it has to be a perfect mix/compromise between the two, but there primarily is a tradeoff (It must not sound muddy and unnecessarily overwhelming, but it still needs to have presence). If the less amount of bass in the HD 800 compared to other headphones is a trait, then how can it reproduce the heavy bass instruments in Stravinsky's piece perfectly? And the mids and highs, would I like them? Is it a daring headphone in terms of sound reproduction (the Denon can portray the loud clanking and screeching noise of blades that hit each other accurately yet still not sound overbearingly harsh when listening to a classical piece)? Or is it just dry reiteration of tones without feel to it? How is the HD 800's build quality? I have heard and touched the HD 700 and in my opinion it felt rather flimsy just like the Denon AH-D7100 I have. Build quality was definitely a step back compared to the Denon AH-D2000's magnesium frame.
 
Anyway, if the LCD-3 has recessed mids as some reviews claim in comparison to the HD 800 I would probably go for the latter. How do the other headphones I mentioned stack up? Like the Final Audio Design Pandora X or the Ultrasone Edition 5, which both in my opinion have a very great design. Perhaps the Fostex TH-900 is something I should be looking at, but the Pan X and Ultrasone are easily more than twice the price, so that just leaves me curious how much more potential those might have.
 
Regards.

 
No one can tell you what you will like. You have to determine that for yourself. The HD 800 is one of the most neutral and accurate headphones out there, the build quality and comfort are exceptional, and it has the greatest value and scalability, as far as I can tell. I think it's more a matter of it having accurate bass, whereas many other headphones have exaggerated bass. The TH-900 is a colored headphone, meaning that it emphasizes certain frequencies in a way that can be pleasurable...but it's not what you should go for if you want accuracy. Is the Pandora Hope X out yet? The Pandora SE (a limited edition of the X that will supposedly cost well over $10,000) is on my wish list. If you are looking at the Edition 5, you might want to check out the Abyss AB-1266 ($5,495) as well. (That's the headphone I want the most.) Out of all the headphones I've read about, it seems to have the most speaker-like presentation. It doesn't seem like you are constrained by budget at all, so I was a little confused when you said there is "no possibility of testing any of these headphones myself prior to purchase."

 

[FRGCWRU]

   
No one can tell you what you will like. You have to determine that for yourself. The HD 800 is one of the most neutral and accurate headphones out there, the build quality and comfort are exceptional, and it has the greatest value and scalability, as far as I can tell. I think it's more a matter of it having accurate bass, whereas many other headphones have exaggerated bass. The TH-900 is a colored headphone, meaning that it emphasizes certain frequencies in a way that can be pleasurable...but it's not what you should go for if you want accuracy. Is the Pandora Hope X out yet? The Pandora SE (a limited edition of the X that will supposedly cost well over $10,000) is on my wish list. If you are looking at the Edition 5, you might want to check out the Abyss AB-1266 ($5,495) as well. (That's the headphone I want the most.) Out of all the headphones I've read about, it seems to have the most speaker-like presentation. It doesn't seem like you are constrained by budget at all, so I was a little confused when you said there is "no possibility of testing any of these headphones myself prior to purchase."

 
Well, I do have a budget, it is just that it is high enough to purchase any of the headsets I mentioned and I do not care if one combination ends up being more expensive than the other. The AB-1266 alongside an expensive headphone amplifier would certainly be a stretch, and I would probably have to end up also parting with the AH-D7100 and the rest to get that kind of money (which entails that I won't have any sort of system to listen to my music for a while). I guess it would have been more accurate to say that I do not care much for the price difference between the models I mentioned.
 
The Hope X is not out yet as far as I know; was hoping people have experience with previous models and or have heard some demo models in a show.
 
I realize it would be impossible for others to tell me what I would end up liking, but I do value the input people have, especially from people who have listened to multiple models.
 
Seeing as how the Pandora SE is on your wishlist I presume you have some experience with other models? What is your opinion on their sound signature?
 
I thought unlike professional monitors Hi-Fi audio always colors audio, since a flat frequency response is not a pleasure to listen to continuously ergo some coloration being a desirable trait. I would actually go as far as to say I find most headphones have recessed bass, and also upper mids as well--at least when comparing to most Hi-Fi speakers.
 
@Lorspeaker. I do not quite get what you are saying. Does the Pandora VI or the HD 800 have the bass you like for Eiji Oue?
 
Regards.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Well, I do have a budget, it is just that it is high enough to purchase any of the headsets I mentioned and I do not care if one combination ends up being more expensive than the other. The AB-1266 alongside an expensive headphone amplifier would certainly be a stretch, and I would probably have to end up also parting with the AH-D7100 and the rest to get that kind of money (which entails that I won't have any sort of system to listen to my music for a while). I guess it would have been more accurate to say that I do not care much for the price difference between the models I mentioned.
 
The Hope X is not out yet as far as I know; was hoping people have experience with previous models and or have heard some demo models in a show.
 
I realize it would be impossible for others to tell me what I would end up liking, but I do value the input people have, especially from people who have listened to multiple models.
 
Seeing as how the Pandora SE is on your wishlist I presume you have some experience with other models? What is your opinion on their sound signature?
 
I thought unlike professional monitors Hi-Fi audio always colors audio, since a flat frequency response is not a pleasure to listen to continuously ergo some coloration being a desirable trait. I would actually go as far as to say I find most headphones have recessed bass, and also upper mids as well--at least when comparing to most Hi-Fi speakers.

 
My wish list is comprised of a good amount of the high-end audio gear in existence, primarily out of curiosity. As of yet, I have no experience with Final Audio Design.
 
Hi-fi means high fidelity, as in high-quality reproduction of sound that is as close as possible to the recording itself. If you say that accurate sound is not pleasurable to listen to, what you really mean is that the music itself, as it is, is not pleasurable to listen to. Of course, as far as I know, no audio component is perfectly accurate. This is all in relative terms. Neutral and colored audio both have their place. You just need to figure out which sound signature you prefer for each style of music you listen to.
 
Also, flat frequency response and audibly flat/neutral/accurate sound are two different things. You have to compensate for the human factor in these measurements. For example, something that is measured as flat for any of the various models used to measure that may end up not sounding as accurate as it seems on paper.
 
Why can't you audition anything before purchase?

 

[Lorspeaker]

 

 
@Lorspeaker. I do not quite get what you are saying. Does the Pandora VI or the HD 800 have the bass you like for Eiji Oue?
 
Regards.

 
No they dont  have the grunnnt ..the phrooommm..the quantity...to bring "FANFARE to the COMMON PEOPLE MAN" home.
Pandora VI's bass is clean n polite...
HD800 is tight compact...

 

[FRGCWRU]

   
My wish list is comprised of a good amount of the high-end audio gear in existence, primarily out of curiosity. As of yet, I have no experience with Final Audio Design.
 
Hi-fi means high fidelity, as in high-quality reproduction of sound that is as close as possible to the recording itself. If you say that accurate sound is not pleasurable to listen to, what you really mean is that the music itself, as it is, is not pleasurable to listen to. Of course, as far as I know, no audio component is perfectly accurate. This is all in relative terms. Neutral and colored audio both have their place. You just need to figure out which sound signature you prefer for each style of music you listen to.
 
Also, flat frequency response and audibly flat/neutral/accurate sound are two different things. You have to compensate for the human factor in these measurements. For example, something that is measured as flat for any of the various models used to measure that may end up not sounding as accurate as it seems on paper.
 
Why can't you audition anything before purchase?

 
Well, I always read that professional studio monitors do the accurate reproducing since that is a necessity for making music yourself. I have read comments on forums like AVS that advice against buying professional monitors for regular listening.
 
I cannot audition anything because there are no Hi-Fi stores close to me that offer these headphones, and because I am completely occupied five days of the week at the least due to personal reasons.
 

   
No they dont  have the grunnnt ..the phrooommm..the quantity...to bring FANFARE to the COMMON PEOPLE home.
Pandora VI's bass is clean n polite...
HD800 is tight compact...

 
You know to be honest I really cannot tell whether you are taking a piss at me with "Fanfare" to the "Common People" or not because I have divulged to have taken a liking to the Denon D**** series which a lot of people call basshead headphones. I am not saying I am offended or angry with you, probably just my paranoia as a new member.
 
Regardless I appreciate both your input.
 
Regards.

 

[goldenSHK]

My advice is somewhat independent of musical taste. Go LCD3 if you want a safe option and aren't feeling too adventurous with such a large sum of money. It is very neutral, natural, and just all around amazing. I can't possibly understand how someone can not enjoy an LCD3 (or something like an HE-6 or HD800). That's why they are all so highly praised with very minor complaints. If you are feeling really really adventurous and want to take a plunge into something that you can possibly not like or want a piece of equipment that no one else has (making you a very unique audiophile), try something like the Edition 5 or maybe even the Edition 10/Edition 8 Limited. They can be found for very reasonable prices on the classifieds. Ultrasone is a very love-hate brand, but their products are more exotic and harder to come by so if you actually dig their sound, you'll be quite happy. Top end headphones from Hifiman, Audeze, and Sennheiser are just solidly engineered and the chances of you honestly feeling buyers remorse are much more slim than any other headphone you can purchase at these prices. 

 

[Lorspeaker]

Dun read me wrong bro..i am a DENON FAN..the D7k is one of my favourite cans...
i used to just sit infront of the percussion section in a concert band, so i need to FEEL the bass.
Classicals without palpable bass is a little tepid to me.
The hd800 just didnt satisfy me, owned it twice.
 
Think there is a typo..it is "FANFARE TO THE COMMON MAN"..not PEOPLE..
it is a testsong of mine, from Copland by Eiji Oue.