[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Who has thrown the Susvara on a tube amp? I know you need something in the $6k+ range to have enough power to even drive them from a tube amp but knowing how much I love my ZMF's on my Euforia, I'm curious how the Susvara performs on a tube amp that can drive it properly

A friend of mine came over for a day of listening, and brought his headphones...among them his Susvara's. He was completely blown away how good they sounded from the speaker taps of my Vacuum Tube Logic IT-85 integrated amp as opposed to his Bakoon. So much so, that he went out the very next day and ordered one. I told him to save some dough and wait for one to come up on the used market, but he refused to wait. lol

Calls me almost every day to tell me how much he enjoys the combo.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I’ve found that tube rolling made a big impact. The Sophia Electric EL34 added bass texture with the Susvara.

I found that buying the Hifiman EF1000 made a BIG Impact !

 

[goldwerger]

A friend of mine came over for a day of listening, and brought his headphones...among them his Susvara's. He was completely blown away how good they sounded from the speaker taps of my Vacuum Tube Logic IT-85 integrated amp as opposed to his Bakoon. So much so, that he went out the very next day and ordered one from VTL. I told him to save some dough and wait for one to come up on the used market, but he refused to wait. lol

Calls me almost every day to tell me how much he enjoys the combo.

That VTL looks amazing.. how much does it roughly retail for if I may ask?

 

[BassicScience]

That’s why I like the VC. It has the best isolation of any headphone I ever tried (I’d dare say that with passive isolation it gets close to ANC level), but it feels as open as any closed headphone I tried…

Yeah, I've been wanting to revisit the ZMF lineup for awhile, but unfortunately they haven't been at any of the CanJams I've attended over the last few years. I did listen briefly to a VC at the ampsandsound booth and was favorably impressed overall. The thing is that my use cases for a closed back are rather infrequent, so finding the absolute best one to my ear is a low priority background exercise. In the meantime, I've settled on the DCA Aeon 2 Noire, which set me back about a grand with the premium cable. It does timbre (my #1 priority) and staging (probably #2) quite well for a closed back, and I enjoy its tuning and punch over the Stealth, even though it's not on the same level technically.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

That VTL looks amazing.. how much does it roughly retail for if I may ask?

I believe the MSRP is now $6500.00...although I wouldn't swear to it. Mine is 12 years old and still sounds fantastic. If you're patient, you can find them used in mint condition for around $3k.

 

[goldwerger]

Yeah, I've been wanting to revisit the ZMF lineup for awhile, but unfortunately they haven't been at any of the CanJams I've attended over the last few years. I did listen briefly to a VC at the ampsandsound booth and was favorably impressed overall. The thing is that my use cases for a closed back are rather infrequent, so finding the absolute best one to my ear is a low priority background exercise. In the meantime, I've settled on the DCA Aeon 2 Noire, which set me back about a grand with the premium cable. It does timbre (my #1 priority) and staging (probably #2) quite well for a closed back, and I enjoy its tuning and punch over the Stealth, even though it's not on the same level technically.

Demoing the Red October withy be VC was the highlight of my NYC CanJam this year. That, my friend, is as good as the VC ever sounds. I go to Justin’s website every few days just to mentally measure the footepting of this beast in my setup as I keep building up the courage..

If closed back isn’t a hard use case, take a look at the Atrium as well. Just got it and it’s really wonderful. It is very different to the Susvara so they coexist greatly in the same collection. But it’s also wonderfully natural sounding.

I tried the Noire and almost bought it as a mobile set for a holiday (I ended up getting the Liric, which I quickly sold later as it paled next to the VC). I really liked the Noire. That’s a fun headphone and perform actually quite well!

 

[goldwerger]

I believe the MSRP is now $6500.00...although I wouldn't swear to it. Mine is 12 years old and still sounds fantastic. If you're patient, you can find them used in mint condition for around $3k.

This may join my (very) long opportunistic shopping list.. Thanks!!

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Hey @UntilThen and @goldwerger , I've been more of Head-Fi lurker lately, I happened to see my amps mentioned here, thought I'd share something. I know this is off topic, but it may have future relevance to planar users who are interested in tube amplification.

As far as my building tube amplifiers goes, I gave it a shot, but it doesn't make sense for me to build for both time and monetary reasons. In addition, many of the tube circuits I've designed are augmented with semiconductors (mostly in power supply applications), and given the current international semiconductor shortage, I cannot continue making some of those amps even if I wanted to as the parts are no longer available (Airmid, specifically).

I came to the conclusion that if I wanted something I designed out in the wild, it would have to built by someone else, not me. That left two options: a commercial endeavor or a community DIY project.

So I set out to design something from the ground up that would fit well into either of those two categories, with the following design stipulations:

1) uses no semiconductors whatsoever to avoid design and supply chain complexity, a completely "old school" design using only tubes, resistors, capacitors, inductors
2) achieves a certain standard of audio quality I seek, but using tubes that are available new production (this proved to be a big challenge)
3) is very easy to assemble, test, and troubleshoot with a large portion of the circuit built onto a PCB for ease of assembly
4) unique to the marketplace

I spent a few months working on a design that I felt confident achieved all of those goals, on paper it looked phenomenal, so I ordered the parts and prototyped my circuit a few weeks ago, it is still sitting on my workbench. To my ears, it is a TOTL tube design and surpassed my expectations, and as I said, it uses a topology that is not available anywhere on the commercial tube amplifier market as far as I am aware, no surprise as it has quite a few design quirks that must be overcome.

As it stands right now, it uses tube rectification using 5V / 2A rectifiers (GZ34, 5V4, GZ32, 5R4, etc.), a pair of 6SL7 inputs (6SL7 are a critical design element, meaning very little tube rolling flexibility in this position), and triode-strapped audio power pentode outputs (EL34, KT66, 6550, KT88, 6V6, etc.). It is a 2W peak transformer coupled design, however what I have done has advantages over a conventional SET circuit, most notably when it comes to distortion and output impedance. So with my prototype done, the next step is to build one, which I am working on very slowly. From there it will be decided if it will be a commercial or DIY offering.

Plan A is a commercial endeavor, which is still a very nebulous plan and I am not certain it will work out, I cannot share other details in that regard.

Plan B is a community DIY project, but again I cannot make any promises on this. As I mentioned, I've made this circuit very simple to build, anyone capable of building a Bottlehead Crack could assemble this amplifier the way I am planning it. If I were to pursue this route, I would provide everything - BOM, PCB gerber files, chassis CAD files as well as how to order a chassis, step-by-step build instructions, testing procedures, etc. I would likely send out a review unit too to prove to the community it is a project worth pursuing as the cost of parts is rather high. My significant other is very against this plan as I would essentially be giving away what I consider to be a valuable piece of intellectual property, so I might have to set up some sort of donations page or something. Despite this approach being a lot of work for little personal gain, its intriguing to me as I think it has the potential to disrupt the commercial tube amplifier industry given the ease with which this circuit could be built and the quality of sound relative to the cost of parts. I think few people have really heard a true TOTL tube circuit, and this would make one available to most everyone.

So anyway, even though I'm not as active here as I once was, I am working on this in the background. I can't make any promises, life changes fast, but in either case, I am hopeful this circuit will reach Head-Fiers in some capacity, maybe within the next year. I'm very excited about its potential, so I thought I'd throw it out there. Gotta build one and pursue plan A, then we'll go from there.

 

[SlothRock]

Similar to how I approach my collection, although I do have the 1266 TC for those days where I need more grunge/slam attitude to my headphones

Oh ya, love a "small but mighty" headphone collection . Still need to hear me the 1266 TC. I love my bass and I've heard it is one of the best, if not THE best, in that category

 

[goldwerger]

Hey @UntilThen and @goldwerger , I've been more of Head-Fi lurker lately, I happened to see my amps mentioned here, thought I'd share something. I know this is off topic, but it may have future relevance to planar users who are interested in tube amplification.

As far as my building tube amplifiers goes, I gave it a shot, but it doesn't make sense for me to build for both time and monetary reasons. In addition, many of the tube circuits I've designed are augmented with semiconductors (mostly in power supply applications), and given the current international semiconductor shortage, I cannot continue making some of those amps even if I wanted to as the parts are no longer available (Airmid, specifically).

I came to the conclusion that if I wanted something I designed out in the wild, it would have to built by someone else, not me. That left two options: a commercial endeavor or a community DIY project.

So I set out to design something from the ground up that would fit well into either of those two categories, with the following design stipulations:

1) uses no semiconductors whatsoever to avoid design and supply chain complexity, a completely "old school" design using only tubes, resistors, capacitors, inductors
2) achieves a certain standard of audio quality I seek, but using tubes that are available new production (this proved to be a big challenge)
3) is very easy to assemble, test, and troubleshoot with a large portion of the circuit built onto a PCB for ease of assembly
4) unique to the marketplace

I spent a few months working on a design that I felt confident achieved all of those goals, on paper it looked phenomenal, so I ordered the parts and prototyped my circuit a few weeks ago, it is still sitting on my workbench. To my ears, it is a TOTL tube design and surpassed my expectations, and as I said, it uses a topology that is not available anywhere on the commercial tube amplifier market as far as I am aware, no surprise as it has quite a few design quirks that must be overcome.

As it stands right now, it uses tube rectification using 5V / 2A rectifiers (GZ34, 5V4, GZ32, 5R4, etc.), a pair of 6SL7 inputs (6SL7 are a critical design element, meaning very little tube rolling flexibility in this position), and triode-strapped audio power pentode outputs (EL34, KT66, 6550, KT88, 6V6, etc.). It is a 2W peak transformer coupled design, however what I have done has advantages over a conventional SET circuit, most notably when it comes to distortion and output impedance. So with my prototype done, the next step is to build one, which I am working on very slowly. From there it will be decided if it will be a commercial or DIY offering.

Plan A is a commercial endeavor, which is still a very nebulous plan and I am not certain it will work out, I cannot share other details in that regard.

Plan B is a community DIY project, but again I cannot make any promises on this. As I mentioned, I've made this circuit very simple to build, anyone capable of building a Bottlehead Crack could assemble this amplifier the way I am planning it. If I were to pursue this route, I would provide everything - BOM, PCB gerber files, chassis CAD files as well as how to order a chassis, step-by-step build instructions, testing procedures, etc. I would likely send out a review unit too to prove to the community it is a project worth pursuing as the cost of parts is rather high. My significant other is very against this plan as I would essentially be giving away what I consider to be a valuable piece of intellectual property, so I might have to set up some sort of donations page or something. Despite this approach being a lot of work for little personal gain, its intriguing to me as I think it has the potential to disrupt the commercial tube amplifier industry given the ease with which this circuit could be built and the quality of sound relative to the cost of parts. I think few people have really heard a true TOTL tube circuit, and this would make one available to most everyone.

So anyway, even though I'm not as active here as I once was, I am working on this in the background. I can't make any promises, life changes fast, but in either case, I am hopeful this circuit will reach Head-Fiers in some capacity, maybe within the next year. I'm very excited about its potential, so I thought I'd throw it out there. Gotta build one and pursue plan A, then we'll go from there.

@L0rdGwyn that’s wonderful news! I encourage you to push forward with this project. As I messaged you previously, your work really deserves to see the light of day. I also agree with your plan A, mostly because it is likely the fastest way to get your amp into the market. I know folks like @zach915m would be delighted to collaborate… hint

Put me on your waiting list!

The AirMid left en indelible impression on me. I realize that as an OTL it won’t suit planars like Susvara (though it was marvelous to demo with ZMF). Would this transformer coupled design be able to retain any of that voicing?

 

[L0rdGwyn]

@L0rdGwyn that’s wonderful news! I encourage you to push forward with this project. As I messaged you previously, your work really deserves to see the light of day. I also agree with your plan A, mostly because it is likely the fastest way to get your amp into the market. I know folks like @zach915m would be delighted to collaborate… hint

Put me on your waiting list!

The AirMid left en indelible impression on me. I realize that as an OTL it won’t suit planars like Susvara (though it was marvelous to demo with ZMF). Would this transformer coupled design be able to retain any of that voicing?

Thanks, time will tell! Given the drastic differences in topology, I admit that the amplifiers do present the music differently. Both were designed by me however and I am seeking a certain degree of musicality which I think this design achieves in spades. I haven't owned a commercial tube amplifier for a long time, so I am only ever comparing new designs to my old ones. I have A-B tested this circuit against my 6336 / 6528 OTL, which is essentially an Airmid on steroids, and I can say without hesitation that I prefer the pentode design. It has incredible staging, imaging, and dynamism while remaining smooth and musical. And given it is transformer coupled with high and low Z output settings, it is capable of driving planar magnetics.

 

[goldwerger]

Thanks, time will tell! Given the drastic differences in topology, I admit that the amplifiers do present the music differently. Both were designed by me however and I am seeking a certain degree of musicality which I think this design achieves in spades. I haven't owned a commercial tube amplifier for a long time, so I am only ever comparing new designs to my old ones. I have A-B tested this circuit against my 6336 / 6528 OTL, which is essentially an Airmid on steroids, and I can say without hesitation that I prefer the pentode design. It has incredible staging, imaging, and dynamism while remaining smooth and musical. And given it is transformer coupled with high and low Z output settings, it is capable of driving planar magnetics.

Can’t wait to test is with both my Susvara and ZMF

 

[iFi audio]

While ownership did transfer to Thomas, the failures did not end then.

Elrog's failure rates are nowhere near as high as they used to be, that's what I'm saying

 

[paradoxper]

Elrog's failure rates are nowhere near as high as they used to be, that's what I'm saying

What you said is under Thomas, the failure rate diminished. Their first runs all failed at a severely significant rate as their filament was prone to defect.

 

[iFi audio]

What you said is under Thomas, the failure rate diminished.

Yes, that's what I meant. After he bought Elrog from the founder QC and everything else got fixed.