Thank you for the feedback paradoxper. Much appreciated.
HiFiMan Susvara
I don't contemplate ever EQ'ing either my speaker systems or my headphone system especially with good to excellent hifi components connected as one for the complete system with respectable interconnects etc.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Posts
- 16,597
- Likes
- 12,413
I can easily agree with this. That's why even affordable headphone setups can sound silly good versus more expensive speaker systems.
A good and affordable speaker system in a suitable room for the speakers will always sound better than even the best headphone systems !
It's just that some people don't have a suitable room for a respectable speaker system or the use of speakers even in a suitable room will disturb others when played at a respectable listening level. For such people, headphones is then the only way to hear quality music !
I agree. People have been saying to me that with TOTL headphones, I can hear songs outside of my head and I just don't. I still feel as if I was in a bubble, which I do like, but compared to speakers, which are really in front of me, it is very different experience. Maybe with some DSP like Smyth Realiser A16 it would be a different story, but a normal setup with headphones, not the same.
+1 for speakers!
My speakers aren't high end; my amp is at least 20 years old and my room is certainly not treated!
I don't have Susvara's, I have Solitaire's which may come close...
The speakers rule without one single doubt!
Yes agree. I have never heard a headphone system where the music sounds outside my head.
When I can, I prefer to listen to my speaker systems. If it is not possible i.e. late at night, then I turn to my Susvara headphones.
Also when I use my vinyl source, headphone listening can be difficult as the sensitivity of the headphones can pick up a lot background vinyl noise even with super clean records that have been anti-static brushed immediately before playing and a super clean high quality cartridge.
When I use my vinyl source through my speakers you hear very little to no background noise at all. Hence if I use my speakers I normally use my vinyl source which beats my CD and digital source hands down !
And use my CD and digital source more with my Susvara headphone system.
Maybe this is why not many vinyl set-ups go on sale on Head-Fi.org, yet there is always a long list of DACs for sale !
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Posts
- 16,597
- Likes
- 12,413
Although speaker systems give us what headphones can't (... in the long run), most living room acoustics usually are bad to mediocre at best. My point is that 'suitable rooms' (as in: really good rooms) are quite rare
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2017
- Posts
- 1,706
- Likes
- 3,870
The podcast is 95 minutes in duration. Can you provide an executive summary? TIA.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2017
- Posts
- 1,706
- Likes
- 3,870
In my experience, it's not so much that most rooms are "bad to mediocre" acoustically as that for practical reasons it's not possible to position speakers in their optimal positions. As a result, bass response and imaging is often sub-optimal. That said, speakers can still blow the doors off any headphone even in a mediocre room. IMHO, of course.Although speaker systems give us what headphones can't (... in the long run), most living room acoustics usually are bad to mediocre at best. My point is that 'suitable rooms' (as in: really good rooms) are quite rare
I listen to mostly headphones (I also use the LS50 wireless from time to time). I actually do hear sounds outside of my head with some headphones (TCs, Susvara, Sr1a). I also "see" sounds. When I listen to music, it's like a picture is being created. I find if you then orient yourself to accepting that sounds are contained in a box around your head (i.e., soundstage) you will more easily notice those sounds outside of your head.
Maybe it's just me, but when I picture a box around my head where different sounds are being placed, I hear depth, noises outside of my head, etc. I'm very interested in the visual aspect of music, so I have built my setup with that in mind. A friend of mine has some Focal loudspeakers (in an untreated room), and my headphones sound much better. I agree that imaging is better with speakers, but with some of these TOTL headphones, amps, and dacs, the imaging is still amazing.
Maybe it's just me, but when I picture a box around my head where different sounds are being placed, I hear depth, noises outside of my head, etc. I'm very interested in the visual aspect of music, so I have built my setup with that in mind. A friend of mine has some Focal loudspeakers (in an untreated room), and my headphones sound much better. I agree that imaging is better with speakers, but with some of these TOTL headphones, amps, and dacs, the imaging is still amazing.
I wish we could swap ears for one eveing, so I could experience what you hear and you could save my wallet by telling me how crap my ears really are, haha.I listen to mostly headphones (I also use the LS50 wireless from time to time). I actually do hear sounds outside of my head with some headphones (TCs, Susvara, Sr1a). I also "see" sounds. When I listen to music, it's like a picture is being created. I find if you then orient yourself to accepting that sounds are contained in a box around your head (i.e., soundstage) you will more easily notice those sounds outside of your head.
Maybe it's just me, but when I picture a box around my head where different sounds are being placed, I hear depth, noises outside of my head, etc. I'm very interested in the visual aspect of music, so I have built my setup with that in mind. A friend of mine has some Focal loudspeakers (in an untreated room), and my headphones sound much better. I agree that imaging is better with speakers, but with some of these TOTL headphones, amps, and dacs, the imaging is still amazing.
number1sixerfan
Headphoneus Supremus
I listen to mostly headphones (I also use the LS50 wireless from time to time). I actually do hear sounds outside of my head with some headphones (TCs, Susvara, Sr1a). I also "see" sounds. When I listen to music, it's like a picture is being created. I find if you then orient yourself to accepting that sounds are contained in a box around your head (i.e., soundstage) you will more easily notice those sounds outside of your head.
Maybe it's just me, but when I picture a box around my head where different sounds are being placed, I hear depth, noises outside of my head, etc. I'm very interested in the visual aspect of music, so I have built my setup with that in mind. A friend of mine has some Focal loudspeakers (in an untreated room), and my headphones sound much better. I agree that imaging is better with speakers, but with some of these TOTL headphones, amps, and dacs, the imaging is still amazing.
I can absolutely relate to this. The experience of headphones and speakers are so vastly different that it makes it hard for me to really say that one is superior across the board. The only thing I prefer about headphones is the intimacy, which refers to exactly what you're referencing. Speakers can't do that because they fill the entire room with music, it's just a totally different experience. (totally get that 'intimacy' would improve in a perfectly crafted room, but that doesn't account for them simply having fundamentally different experiences)
Now I'm not saying headphones > speakers as that would just be ludicrous as a blanket statement, but they have totally different experiences and I really love them both. For my modest Klipsch Heresy speakers I enjoy genres/songs that require less critical listening and I typically leave more complex music to headphones due to the effects mentioned above. (I have limited experience with higher end speakers due to room and volume issues--makes it hard to justify leaping into that world but one day hope to!)
edit* to put in perspective, it's the same thing for me with IEMs vs. headphones. The best headphones are generally better, but IEMs provide a unique experience that still may add value for some and is worth using even if you have the best TOTL headphones.
Last edited:
most hi-fi speakers have bad directivity index/power response. With such hi-fi speakers what the listeners hear is mostly room reflections rather than speakers itself, resulting a really bad imaging performance. Room treatment is necessary but it's not the ultimate solution, room correction softwares do bring different problems for frequencies above 400hz. There seems to be 2 solutions, It's rather to place speakers in a huge room or simply buy speakers with good directivity measurements and have preferably cardioid dispersion pattern in mids, bass frequencies. Those speakers have good imaging, almost on par with headphones like Susvara and SR009.
