The confusion comes from SS vs tube amps, they operate differently as such I don't think a 2W typical solid state amp will have the drive of a 2W tube amp with an output transformer. The impedance match is the key here and where the power transfer happens from the tube to the load/headphone. SS doesn't work on this principle.
Could be both camps are right and let's leave it at that.
I think the confusion actually comes from general statements. Take a typical SS vs tube amp and we can sure make some general predictions, but not all SS amps are made by the same design or parts or goal. Take a true class A amp from Accuphase or Pass Labs that outputs 20-40 watt and compare it to an 150-200 watt class A/B amp from the same manufacturer. The same is true for tube amps. A quality 8W tube amp is always class A and biased to deliver a lot of current already at lower volumes, it has a big PSU with a lot of more power, voltage and current in reserve, if needed for short loudness spikes.
YI agree, for tube amps impedance matching is very important. It’s why you can select suitable output impedance on tube amps but not on SS amps. For SS speaker amps it should always be low.
One of my favourite amps for sensitive horn speakers is a well-built Jean Hiraga Le Monster, but it cannot drive more normally spec speakers.
Right, more power can't hurt anything, other than your ears, but it isn't going to be detrimental to the sound quality. One might consider it irresponsible to sell an amplifier capable of high power output should the user accidentally turn the volume up beyond safe listening levels and inadvertently damage their hearing, or God forbid, their fancy headphones!
Nothing irresponsible, as I chose to purchase the amp from an online seller without a sales pitch. As to accidents, one simply needs to be cautious with the volume knob. In 40 years of audiophila, I've never blown a driver.
The confusion comes from SS vs tube amps, they operate differently as such I don't think a 2W typical solid state amp will have the drive of a 2W tube amp with an output transformer. The impedance match is the key here and where the power transfer happens from the tube to the load/headphone. SS doesn't work on this principle.
Could be both camps are right and let's leave it at that.
The principles are the same, the difference being a tube has a high internal resistance / output impedance relative to a transistor or op amp, it requires a transformer to turn voltage into current as a result. Or, in the case of an OTL, internal negative feedback is utilized to lower the output impedance instead. These tube amplifier circuits have transistor analogues that operate similarly. For example, a common drain transistor amplifier is a current amplifier at unity gain just like a cathode follower, they can be interchanged quite easily in the same circuit. In either SS or tube, the goals are identical: low output impedance and enough power to push a headphone (or speaker) to the desired volume at low distortion, just achieved by different methods based on the characteristics of the device. Anyway, I will take my leave, sorry to barge in, just thought I'd offer an alternative perspective, enjoy the Susvaras!
Assuming an amplifier has a low output impedance across the audio band, the performance at the frequency extremes is independent of power output. That is, if the output impedance is low, the amplifier will supply any current demanded of the headphone when asked at any frequency. The amplifier circuit itself and the components in the signal path are going to have a greater impact on the sound quality than having "more watts".
I think the perception that "more power is better" is fueled by commercial headphone amplifier manufacturer marketing. Often more power IS better because higher quality amplifiers are being sold with higher power output specs. They don't want customers thinking "surely this amplifier is garbage, how could it possibly power my $3,000 headphones with a wimpy 0.5W output?".
I am particularly interested in tube amplifiers because that is what I design. One can build a 0.5W amplifier that uses high-quality parts and minimizes the number of reactive components in the signal path that sounds much, much better than a poorly designed 300B or other over-spec'd amp where the headphone will, in reality, use less than 1% of the available power.
this post I think hits the nail on the head because I have found my formulas/powerman combo to sound and perform better than most of the higher powered alternatives I have heard.....I do not suggest a higher power amp wont sound better...it will if it is a better amp not just more powerful.....I do think a lot of people have come to think the power rating is the be all and end all....it is not...I owned a wells Milo which is far more powerful than my formulaS/powerman combo yet the combo is head and shoulders better to my ears...I also heard the bigger more powerful wells amps and they were no better to my ears than the combo....the ifi ican is more powerful than the combo yet again not in the same league...same goes for some not all speaker amps IMHO...on the other hand my chord dave does NOT drive the susvara satisfactorily to my ears which is why I own the formulaS/powerman...from what I understand the formula s /powerman combo was purposely designed at its power rating and they claimed that they could have built it with more power but thought that 6/16 was actually the sweet spot FWIIW...for those who claim the Hifiman amp being more powerful is proof that that is the deciding factor, it is also 15K which tells me it is also superior in all the other ways that determine a great amp...not just power
I got so used to Pro iCAN with Susvaras so much that I enjoy this setup a lot, which is not surprising as at the office we have mostly our own stuff. But after hearing these cans at @Matez (he rolls with the Bakoon) before the pandemic situation, that was the best sounding Susvara to me. He had his amp connected to a different DAC there and I couldn't tell how much it contributed.
I'm glad Lord Gwyn realized there is more to the story than just Wattage = loudness. As he later realized and pointed out, impedence matching, damping, current are all factors in optimizing sound quality for a hard to drive loud like Susvara. There is a reason why everyone isn't running Susvara on flea watt headamps.
as I mentioned earlier I found it impossible to listen to the susvara directly from the chord dave so the amp definitely does impact the performance of the susvara but I also find the susvara to sound wonderful through the formula s/powerman combo as does the abyss TC and both are power hungry planars to say the least....I only mention the formula s combo because its power rating of 6/16 certainly doesnt scream that it would drive the susvara as well as it does...it seems to me there are all sorts of metrics in addition to the watts rated that go into a good sounding amp...for instance the toppinga90 is rated more powerful than the formula s combo yet it isnt in the same league in terms of driving the susvara etc
as I mentioned earlier I found it impossible to listen to the susvara directly from the chord dave so the amp definitely does impact the performance of the susvara but I also find the susvara to sound wonderful through the formula s/powerman combo as does the abyss TC and both are power hungry planars to say the least....I only mention the formula s combo because its power rating of 6/16 certainly doesnt scream that it would drive the susvara as well as it does...it seems to me there are all sorts of metrics in addition to the watts rated that go into a good sounding amp...for instance the toppinga90 is rated more powerful than the formula s combo yet it isnt in the same league in terms of driving the susvara etc
Planar Magnetic Headphones love current, current current and more current to their ultra flat impedance characteristics across the complete music frequency range that the human ear can hear and beyond.
So if there is an Amp that has a high impedance and high output voltage with a small current output then this isn't going to be as good as for Planar Magnetics than if the Amp has a low output impedance, low output voltage and a high current even though the power output for both Amps would be the same !
I'm glad Lord Gwyn realized there is more to the story than just Wattage = loudness. As he later realized and pointed out, impedence matching, damping, current are all factors in optimizing sound quality for a hard to drive loud like Susvara. There is a reason why everyone isn't running Susvara on flea watt headamps.
Planar Magnetic Headphones love current, current current and more current to their ultra flat impedance characteristics across the complete music frequency range that the human ear can hear and beyond.
So if there is an Amp that has a high impedance and high output voltage with a small current output then this isn't going to be as good as for Planar Magnetics than if the Amp has a low output impedance, low output voltage and a high current even though the power output for both Amps would be the same !
So (as I have mentioned in previous posts), if you do the maths for various Amps that have different characteristics and types you will see a pattern emerging for the Amps that sound poor, good, very good and amazing with the Susvara's just on these basic parameters alone !
Well we could get into the Quantum world if you like where real reality is happening and closer to my line of work and not look at very basic Ohm Law equations !
Well we could get into the Quantum world if you like where real reality is happening and closer to my line of work and not look at very basic Ohm Law equations !
Planar Magnetic Headphones love current, current current and more current to their ultra flat impedance characteristics across the complete music frequency range that the human ear can hear and beyond.
So if there is an Amp that has a high impedance and high output voltage with a small current output then this isn't going to be as good as for Planar Magnetics than if the Amp has a low output impedance, low output voltage and a high current even though the power output for both Amps would be the same !
so would the current explain the outstanding performance of the formula s combo and why it was designed for use with a power hungry planar but with modest power specs?
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