[jlbrach]

a speaker amp for utopia is to be kind insane.....the utopia is so efficient that it is as if one is searching for a solution where there is no problem..a debate can be had regarding susvara although i personally do not think it is necessary but with the utopia i think it is madness

 

[mightyKyn]

also to note....

LCD 24 obviously sounds better with TT2/MSC and due to its easy to drive nature would seem to get all the efficiency benefits of having a powerful amp like tt2... yet even though many here say TT2 not sufficient for Susvara... Susvara sounds quite a bit better than LCD 24 via TT2/MSC... quantify at 20% better.

i really need to hear a speaker amp before I attack.

 

[llamaluv]

how are you plugging the susvara into the amp? cable setup?

pics?

You need an adapter cable that has banana plugs (or spades) on on end, and female 4-pin XLR on the other. I had this Lavricables Master Silver adapter custom-ordered:

The XLR end connects to the XLR headphone cable:

And the end with the banana plugs (or spades) connect to the speaker amp:

ALSO

reading your utopia experience... I am now convinced that almost every headphone amp on earth is underpowered.

I've gradually started drawing conclusions something along those lines as well.

Taken as a whole, speaker amps tend to have a different sound signature to headphone amps. Bigger soundstage, faster, more dynamic, more detailed, and so forth. But, I'd argue, getting the right synergy can be trickier. For instance, I think there can be a greater variation in the resulting tonal balance...

 

[mixman]

also to note....

LCD 24 obviously sounds better with TT2/MSC and due to its easy to drive nature would seem to get all the efficiency benefits of having a powerful amp like tt2... yet even though many here say TT2 not sufficient for Susvara... Susvara sounds quite a bit better than LCD 24 via TT2/MSC... quantify at 20% better.

i really need to hear a speaker amp before I attack.

Well hearing that makes me even wonder whether I should bother with the LCD 24, since I already have the HEK SE which is probably not crazy far from the Susvara itself.

 

[mightyKyn]

You need an adapter cable that has banana plugs (or spades) on on end, and female 4-pin XLR on the other. I had this Lavricables Master Silver adapter custom-ordered:


The XLR end connects to the XLR headphone cable:


And the end with the banana plugs (or spades) connect to the speaker amp:




I've gradually started drawing conclusions something along those lines as well.

Taken as a whole, speaker amps tend to have a different sound signature to headphone amps. Bigger soundstage, faster, more dynamic, more detailed, and so forth. But, I'd argue, getting the right synergy can be trickier. For instance, I think there can be a greater variation in the resulting tonal balance...

thanks for these pics.. very helpful.

what cable do you have for Susvara?

any SQ improvement VS stock (what i am using)

 

[mightyKyn]

Well hearing that makes me even wonder whether I should bother with the LCD 24, since I already have the HEK SE which is probably not crazy far from the Susvara itself.

don t know the HEK SE and I think Sus quite a bit better than that.

you are better off going for the 4Z if you want something different.

susvara more bass than LCD24 by a tad.... very close.

need to finish breaking and compare to 4Z at some point

 

[llamaluv]

what cable do you have for Susvara?

any SQ improvement VS stock (what i am using)

That's the Lazuli Ultra. I also have a Lavricables Grand Silver, and have heard the Lazuli Reference on the Susvara for a few days. I never got a good feel for the sound of the stock cable, truth be told, as I wanted to be rid of as soon as possible. So this is what I can say about the three cables I have heard at some length:

Directly comparing the Ultra to the Lavricables, I feel like the Ultra presents slightly more detail, space, separation, air, stuff like that. When directly comparing the Lavricables to the Lazuli Reference, I preferred the Lavricables for the similar reasons (the Lazuli Reference has better synergy with the Utopia IMO). And the delta between the Lavricables over the Reference seemed greater than the Ultra over the Lavricables.

Also, the Ultra is noticeably more forward in the mids-to-upper-mids on my setup. It may be a matter of synergy, though; for instance, since my speaker adapter cable is Lavricables, I'm not fully certain how that interacts with the headphone cables in question.

I'm also waiting on a new amp to see how the Ultra sounds with that before deciding on which cable to keep. Regardless, given the subtle differences at play, I doubt I'd recommend the Ultra if paying full price for it.

 

[mightyKyn]

That's the Lazuli Ultra. I also have a Lavricables Grand Silver, and have heard the Lazuli Reference on the Susvara for a few days. I never got a good feel for the sound of the stock cable, truth be told, as I wanted to be rid of as soon as possible. So this is what I can say about the three cables I have heard at some length:

Directly comparing the Ultra to the Lavricables, I feel like the Ultra presents slightly more detail, space, separation, air, stuff like that. When directly comparing the Lavricables to the Lazuli Reference, I preferred the Lavricables for the similar reasons (the Lazuli Reference has better synergy with the Utopia IMO). And the delta between the Lavricables over the Reference seemed greater than the Ultra over the Lavricables.

Also, the Ultra is noticeably more forward in the mids-to-upper-mids on my setup. It may be a matter of synergy, though; for instance, since my speaker adapter cable is Lavricables, I'm not fully certain how that interacts with the headphone cables in question.

I'm also waiting on a new amp to see how the Ultra sounds with that before deciding on which cable to keep. Regardless, given the subtle differences at play, I doubt I'd recommend the Ultra if paying full price for it.

so quite a bit better than stock?

or marginally better?

 

[llamaluv]

so quite a bit better than stock?

or marginally better?

Sorry, I never got a good feel for what the stock cable sounds like compared to other cables.

 

[astrostar59]

The Headphone amp v the speaker amp subject is quite a bit topic now.

There is an interesting thread over on Pierre Paya's forum (in French) where he tested the Utopia on the Viva Egoista 845 15W 2 x 845 tubes HP amp and the Viva Soloista 845 25W 4 x 845 tubes speaker amp, and concluded the Soloista sounded better. To him this is at the top of the HP tree reading that report.

But as well as that experiment, my own listening seems to point to speaker amps sounding different. I currently have the Moon 600i Integrated 125W and it sounds marvellous on the Abyss TC and also the LCD4. My Aries Cerat Genus SET speaker amp is even better. This amp has 25W at 8 ohms and uses big bottle tubes and is a SET, so remarkable detail, realism and accurate timbre.

I think there is a world to explore with speaker amps if you want to try it, especially the huge market of used examples around. If you keep to the top brands, and the amp has a very low noise floor (key on a tube amp) and enough power, and a great pot, it can be a winner. I say power, as an 8W SET at 8 ohms can be 1W at headphone impedance levels. So a more powerful SET or SS amp is preferred. I estimate the Moon 600i has about 20W at 50ohms and about 5-8W at 200 ohms. An amp working well inside it's envelope is good, so 35% on the pot for example.

This is my estimations and my view to date with my ears. I must say the Genus is the amp to beat for powering headphones, I have yet to hear one get to that level of realism yet. But the Moon 600i is close-ish and great as an alternative.

 

[SuperDuke]

Thanks for the interesting comments. I would like to think that Pierre's Viva comparison demonstrates that the only difference is power output yet that may be an over simplification. Though I do wonder if, all things being equal, it is that simple - inefficient HPs like inefficient speakers may just need more drive.

Also - update on my Susvara pad which is coming apart - Hifiman is sending new ones free of charge

 

[iFi audio]

In the Susvara world this became very useful

 

[joseph69]

If anyone is interested in a pristine Susvara see my signature below.

 

[tonyo442]

[QUOTE = "iFi audio, post: 15177770, member: 361812"] Dans le monde de Susvara, cela est devenu très utile : ksc75smile:[/ QUOTE]

bonjour, en France à part Ebay, je n'ai pas trouvé le câble XLR 4 broches femelle et les fiches banane dans le catalogue des vendeurs, ...

 

[tonyo442]

hello, in France apart from Ebay, I did not find the XLR 4 pin female cable and banana plugs in the catalog of sellers,.