[Thenewguy007]

You also have the old heads who think their beat to crap K-1000, Original Orpheus, R-10, L-3000 are worth a mint because of inflation/rareity. Only area of audio I found this in and I have bought vintage, in particular vintage Japan, in pretty much every aspect of audio gear at this point. Tons of rare pricey stuff as well. All either original retail or much, much less.

K-1000 & the R-10 did things that no other headphone did as good. Mainly the soundstage of the K-1000 & being the best closed back headphone with the R-10.

 

[Edwood]

How is the presentation of the susvara compared to the he 1000 v2?
Some say it is more engaging the v1.
How is the soundstage compared the he 1k v2?
How much smaller is it?
I compared the he 1k vs the lcd 4 for example and did not like the lcd 4 because it was to narrow for me.
Is the soundstage and the tonality more like the lcd 4 or does it still offer thr balance between musicality and analytical sound?

Want to purchase 1 of these 2 and im mainly listening to classical music and sometimes pop and rock

I'm going to make a visual reference image to try to convey the soundstage between the different headphones in my review. It means making custom graphic images, but it should be worthwhile, albeit time consuming.

But suffice it to say, the HE1000 v1 and v2 have wider soundstages by a decent amount vs the Susvara. But the Susvara's soundstage shape is more rounder and better blended from left to right. Seems like it's a little deeper front to back, but could be because the HE1000 has such a wide soundstage left to right. Soundstage is where the Focal Utopia falls very short, as it's likely a limitation of it's underlying technology.

I don't have the LCD-4 on hand, but I am trying to get one to compare in the future. Won't be able to for probably another month or so.

 

[Edwood]

K-1000 & the R-10 did things that no other headphone did as good. Main the soundstage of the K-1000 & being the best closed back headphone with the R-10.

I've owned (and sold) both in the past. They were very unique and innovative headphones in their day, but they each had very distinct shortcomings. Kind of wish I still had them to compare how they hold up to more modern TOTL headphones.

 

[Edwood]

You also have the old heads who think their beat to crap K-1000, Original Orpheus, R-10, L-3000 are worth a mint because of inflation/rareity. Only area of audio I found this in and I have bought vintage, in particular vintage Japan, in pretty much every aspect of audio gear at this point. Tons of rare pricey stuff as well. All either original retail or much, much less.

Most people don't beat their uber expensive headphones to crap, at least I don't. But rarity is a price inflator for sure, as long as the demand it there. If not, depreciation is a fact of consumer life. You can always wait and save money, but if you want TOTL now, it'll cost you. (increasingly an insane amount these days) I was really surprised at the current asking prices of HE6's are at now, I guess because they are pretty difficult to find these days.

 

[roxrite]

I'm going to make a visual reference image to try to convey the soundstage between the different headphones in my review. It means making custom graphic images, but it should be worthwhile, albeit time consuming.

But suffice it to say, the HE1000 v1 and v2 have wider soundstages by a decent amount vs the Susvara. But the Susvara's soundstage shape is more rounder and better blended from left to right. Seems like it's a little deeper front to back, but could be because the HE1000 has such a wide soundstage left to right. Soundstage is where the Focal Utopia falls very short, as it's likely a limitation of it's underlying technology.

I don't have the LCD-4 on hand, but I am trying to get one to compare in the future. Won't be able to for probably another month or so.

So would you call the susvara boxed in?
Does the stage suit orchestral music or classical?
And would you consider it small vs other flagship headphones? Thx alot

 

[mulder01]

It may sound good, but does it sound good enough for 6k+shipping? There are amazing options at almost half the price like Sr 009,abyss, utopia. I want to know what makes susvara special that it costs 2-3k more than these headphones. Not many get the opportunity to demo them.

Yeah it can be interesting to hear different points of view for sure.
Would you buy a susvara based on other's opinions though?
I think people are crazy to shell out this sort of cash without auditioning for themselves. I have to get on a plane to go and listen to a decent selection of gear. Sure it costs a bit to fly somewhere and possibly stay overnight, but being able to listen to, and make a confident choice between $20k+ worth of headphones is worth much more than that. If I just went by impressions on head fi I would have bought bits and pieces worth several thousands of dollars each, several times and wasted much much more money and frustrated the hell out of myself.
Things like finishing off your system with the ultimate DAC may need an in home audition and a week or so to fully wrap your head around and make a confident decision, but headphones are easy.

IMO
Obviously

 

[Thaudiophile]

Yeah it can be interesting to hear different points of view for sure.
Would you buy a susvara based on other's opinions though?
I think people are crazy to shell out this sort of cash without auditioning for themselves. I have to get on a plane to go and listen to a decent selection of gear. Sure it costs a bit to fly somewhere and possibly stay overnight, but being able to listen to, and make a confident choice between $20k+ worth of headphones is worth much more than that. If I just went by impressions on head fi I would have bought bits and pieces worth several thousands of dollars each, several times and wasted much much more money and frustrated the hell out of myself.
Things like finishing off your system with the ultimate DAC may need an in home audition and a week or so to fully wrap your head around and make a confident decision, but headphones are easy.

IMO
Obviously

Yes, but you are seeing comparisons and impressions now and it at least it gave me a better idea about susvara, from the impressions I don't think I will like susvara more than the abyss, susvara lacks the visceral bass and soundstage of abyss.So I think I will stick with the Abyss phi.

 

[Edwood]

So would you call the susvara boxed in?
Does the stage suit orchestral music or classical?
And would you consider it small vs other flagship headphones? Thx alot

Not at all. Far from it. The soundstage is still large. It's just that the HE1000's soundstage is very wide. Compared to another flagship like the Focal Utopia, the Susvara has a much larger soundstage. It's a night and day difference. Compared to the Susvara, the Utopia has a very boxed in soundstage. But it's a very different presentation, so it can come down to personal preference there, but there's no contest that the Susvara has a larger soundstage than pretty much all other non-orthodynamic/magneplanar dynamic headphones.

The Susvara soundstage is excellent for classical and orchestral music, I listen to a lot of that genre.

 

[Currawong]

I'm going to make a visual reference image to try to convey the soundstage between the different headphones in my review. It means making custom graphic images, but it should be worthwhile, albeit time consuming.

But suffice it to say, the HE1000 v1 and v2 have wider soundstages by a decent amount vs the Susvara. But the Susvara's soundstage shape is more rounder and better blended from left to right. Seems like it's a little deeper front to back, but could be because the HE1000 has such a wide soundstage left to right. Soundstage is where the Focal Utopia falls very short, as it's likely a limitation of it's underlying technology.

The HE1000 V2 sounds a bit left-and-right to me as well. It is also slightly brighter in the treble, which can give the illusion of more soundstage. The Susvara more gives me the feeling of a soundstage across the front from left to right. The Utopias seem to have soundstage on very fast tube amps that I've tried and the Master 9. I think because of the much more precise imaging of the Utopias, which results in a greater sense of depth, it seems like they have a smaller soundstage. Out of the Master 9 the Susvara seems to have something more of a nuanced presentation with music, whereas I felt it was a bit more bombastic out of the Solaris.

 

[up late]

@Edwood - I liked the original he1000 overall but found its presentation a bit soft around the edges. how does the susvara compare?

 

[336881]

K-1000 & the R-10 did things that no other headphone did as good. Mainly the soundstage of the K-1000 & being the best closed back headphone with the R-10.

R10 maybe but the k-1000 had the stax sigma as a competitor for sure as well as floats. Also my apm-4 speakers are just as rare as the R10, had a high retail price 540,000 yen vs 360,000 yen and had more time with inflation. $4k minty fresh. You couldn't get a pair of R10 drivers today for $4k. Just me but there really is no justification for the crazy prices with lots of great speakers around. Maybe not the best comparisons as they are much different experiences but I know from where I sit and using the apm-4's as a measuring stick, the R10's are def. not worth over $4k. No headphone should be that much money.

Most people don't beat their uber expensive headphones to crap, at least I don't. But rarity is a price inflator for sure, as long as the demand it there. If not, depreciation is a fact of consumer life. You can always wait and save money, but if you want TOTL now, it'll cost you. (increasingly an insane amount these days) I was really surprised at the current asking prices of HE6's are at now, I guess because they are pretty difficult to find these days.

I did not say people beat the crap out of their headphones. Time itself does that. The demand is there obviously but it is phony balony demand from people who have more money than sense and who are too lazy to figure out there are lots of great speaker options, some that are incredibly rare.

 

[Edwood]

The HE1000 V2 sounds a bit left-and-right to me as well. It is also slightly brighter in the treble, which can give the illusion of more soundstage. The Susvara more gives me the feeling of a soundstage across the front from left to right. The Utopias seem to have soundstage on very fast tube amps that I've tried and the Master 9. I think because of the much more precise imaging of the Utopias, which results in a greater sense of depth, it seems like they have a smaller soundstage. Out of the Master 9 the Susvara seems to have something more of a nuanced presentation with music, whereas I felt it was a bit more bombastic out of the Solaris.

I'm kind of struggling to find a good way to describe the imaging and soundstage differences between the Susvara and Utopias as well. It's not that the Utopias have better imaging in general, it's just that it's tighter grouped because of the smaller perceived soundstage. Best analogy I can come up with is the Susvara is like a 65" 4K TV, and the Utopia is a 42" 4K TV. Both are displaying the same resolution and information, but it's easier to pick out details from the farthest edges of the smaller 42" TV because your eyes don't have to hunt back and forth as much than with a larger screen. Also, the smaller pixels can give an impression of more detail because of the smaller density. I'm hearing basically the same details from both headphones, but it's a little easier to pick out the imaging differences with the Utopias because they're closer together in the smaller soundstage. The more upfront and smaller soundstage makes the Utopias sound a little more intimate as well, and lends itself well to vocal centric music. If I had to pick a single headphone for studio monitoring / mastering, I'd probably choose the Utopia (well we'll ignore the fact that it's not closed back).

There's also an echo / phase issue (lack of transparency, maybe not wording it right here) I have with the Utopias, which is more a limitation of the transparency of it's driver type rather than actual sound reverberations in the ear cups. More of a closed in feel to the sound, like I'm listening in real life with my hands near my ears, while the Susvara (and pretty much every magneplanar and electrostat) is completely wide open and transparent. I don't hear a lot of echo, but I am definitely always aware that there is a wall of material near my ears when listening with the Utopia's. The Utopia's also do not play nice with my Smyth Realiser A8, but that's another subject I'll have to go into further detail later in my review.

 

[Edwood]

@Edwood - I liked the original he1000 overall but found its presentation a bit soft around the edges. how does the susvara compare?

The Susvara is significantly more aggressive than the HE1000. Very punchy in comparison, almost too edgy at first (particularly treble), but after breaking/burning them in, it smoothed out. Mid bass not nearly as strong as the HE1000, though, but the Susvara goes lower and the bass sounds a lot flatter. So the perceived bass can seem a bit recessed, but when you go back to the HE1000 from the Susvara, the bass sounds almost bloated and boomy.

 

[Edwood]

I did not say people beat the crap out of their headphones. Time itself does that. The demand is there obviously but it is phony balony demand from people who have more money than sense and who are too lazy to figure out there are lots of great speaker options, some that are incredibly rare.

You'd be surprised at how mint condition people can keep their headphones. But for sure, something like the Sony R10's are too organic and basically decay on their own over time.

And I really tire of the argument of touting speakers as an alternative to high end headphones. Some of us live in congested city areas in condos/apartments that cost more than most people's large houses, and using speakers is not even a possibility to enjoy to it's fullest extent.

 

[up late]

The Susvara is significantly more aggressive than the HE1000. Very punchy in comparison, almost too edgy at first (particularly treble), but after breaking/burning them in, it smoothed out. Mid bass not nearly as strong as the HE1000, though, but the Susvara goes lower and the bass sounds a lot flatter. So the perceived bass can seem a bit recessed, but when you go back to the HE1000 from the Susvara, the bass sounds almost bloated and boomy.

look forward to hearing it and comparing directly with the utopia in the near future