HiFiMan Susvara
Oct 16, 2020 at 6:00 PM Post #4,876 of 12,815

Roasty

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Any suggestion for Susvara cable upgrade. Looking into Wywire, Plussound X16 and Atlas Zeno.

WyWires Platinum if purchased during the summer sale may be one of the best deals of the year.

I have a PlusSound X8 and also one of their iem cables. I would rate their build quality as excellent! The only downside is they have quite a few metal options and combos and after getting one choice, I end up wondering how the other choices will sound like..

I have not tried Atlas Zeno.

I had an Arctic Cable Silver series and it was my favourite cable with the Susvara. Best high and low extension of all my cables. Detailed throughout the spectrum, clear and transparent, without sibilance. But I recently sold it, as I have their Palladium cable incoming within the next 2 weeks. If u can wait a bit for some early impressions.
 
Oct 16, 2020 at 6:13 PM Post #4,877 of 12,815

Dipesh

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WyWires Platinum if purchased during the summer sale may be one of the best deals of the year.

I have a PlusSound X8 and also one of their iem cables. I would rate their build quality as excellent! The only downside is they have quite a few metal options and combos and after getting one choice, I end up wondering how the other choices will sound like..

I have not tried Atlas Zeno.

I had an Arctic Cable Silver series and it was my favourite cable with the Susvara. Best high and low extension of all my cables. Detailed throughout the spectrum, clear and transparent, without sibilance. But I recently sold it, as I have their Palladium cable incoming within the next 2 weeks. If u can wait a bit for some early impressions.

I can wait. I have an option of buying WyWire platinum with extension and sorts worth 2k for around 1k. How is plus sound sonically?
 
Oct 16, 2020 at 6:14 PM Post #4,878 of 12,815

donato

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Okay, FYI : So I'm an official member of the"a 'fellowship of the Susvarians" since this morning. My unit (the Susvara) landed today, and so far I am listening to it on this system :

Sonore Optical module (optone audio LPS 1.5) ==>> Uptone Etherregen (Paul Hynes SR4T LPS) ==>> Metrum Ac Ambre (I2S) ==>> Sonnet D.Morpheus ==>> Flux Lab FA-10 ==>> Susvara

The Susvara replaced an HekSE in the same chain, and it took me less than one minute of listening to notice the improvements in SQ performance, although I am still a very ardent admirer of the HekSE and wish I have not had to trade it up for the Susvara...
r
And no... The FA-10 does not sound at all like a bottle-neck (or "weak link") in the chain. What I am hearing is this particular chain at its most resolving best, with the blackest background I have ever heard, at its most holographic best, and yet at its gentlest-on-the-ear best... And how delicate, musical, intoxicating and ethereal it all sounds, even when I am only a few hours into listening to the Susvara, so "burn-in" is extremely limited so far, and yet I can feel things opening up even more with each hour of listening.

It's too early to go into anymore specifics. I simply cannot speculate as to what more "burn-in" might bring to the table, so I find it more prudent to remain silent now. I can say this much though. The HeKSE to Susvara upgrade sounds like one that has gone in the right direction as far as synergy with the remaining system and outcome in SQ is concerned.

More to come, hence to be continued.

I'm in a very similar position. I recently upgraded my HEK V2 to a HEK SE and was trying to hold of on buying a Susvara so I could enjoy and explore the HEK SE a bit more, but I ended up getting a great deal on the Susvaras from a local headfi-er so here I am. My chain is currently Roon -> Singxer SU1 KTE -> Holo Spring 1 KTE -> Violectric V281. I was also smitten on first listen and immediately started to think the the SE was going to be redundant (I will try to give it some time though) esp. since I will only do listening from my desktop rig. I had already been planning on optimizing my desktop setup around the Susvara and already have an extra Pass Labs X150.5 that I am going to use once I get speaker taps from Norne. I was also looking at DAC options (Sonnet Morpheus and Rockna Wavelight are on my list as is the Holo Spring May, but then I'll need to use something as a pre. I'd certainly welcome any recommendations for DACs). Oh, this hobby...
 
Oct 16, 2020 at 6:22 PM Post #4,879 of 12,815

Roasty

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I can wait. I have an option of buying WyWire platinum with extension and sorts worth 2k for around 1k. How is plus sound sonically?

I've only tried susvara with WyWires and AC Silver. I prefer the silver cable. the WyWires is no slouch, but I'm not a big fan of its build and ergonomics. That deal sounds OK but depends what u need the adaptors for. Otherwise, without extras, for the usual price, I'd rather get the silver cable.

I have X6 in gold+silver, and X8 in gold plated silver (don't know what sonic differences they would make considering both have gold and silver, but can't make 1:1 comparison as X6 is iem and X8 is headphone). Shared characteristics I would say are smooth highs and lots of bass (rounded and a bit boomy, rather than tight), crazy super lush and thick mids.

I may be just a silver kind of guy, but I find a well implemented silver cable plays well to the Susvara's strengths.
 
Oct 16, 2020 at 10:31 PM Post #4,880 of 12,815

Dipesh

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Running this. Naim Uniti atom - Amps and sound Nautalis- susvara. Also loving those tubes. wish Susvara s cables were better quality.
20200911_123230.jpg
20201016_115910.jpg
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 12:31 AM Post #4,881 of 12,815

sahmen

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I'm in a very similar position. I recently upgraded my HEK V2 to a HEK SE and was trying to hold of on buying a Susvara so I could enjoy and explore the HEK SE a bit more, but I ended up getting a great deal on the Susvaras from a local headfi-er so here I am. My chain is currently Roon -> Singxer SU1 KTE -> Holo Spring 1 KTE -> Violectric V281. I was also smitten on first listen and immediately started to think the the SE was going to be redundant (I will try to give it some time though) esp. since I will only do listening from my desktop rig. I had already been planning on optimizing my desktop setup around the Susvara and already have an extra Pass Labs X150.5 that I am going to use once I get speaker taps from Norne. I was also looking at DAC options (Sonnet Morpheus and Rockna Wavelight are on my list as is the Holo Spring May, but then I'll need to use something as a pre. I'd certainly welcome any recommendations for DACs). Oh, this hobby...
Don't know what you need the pre for, but for what it's worth the Sonnet Morpheus has a preamp stage which calibrates well with my amp for very refined volume control. Just thought I should mention that. For example, there are some who find the Liquid Platinum's volume control problematic. It is not quite linear and has no high/low gain control. All too often times it seems jump from low to loud levels too fast for many users. Paired with the Sonnet Morpheus, I just set the LP's volume dial on the 1:30 position, and then control the volume with the Sonnet Morpheus, problem solved! And the Morpheus drives all my cans that way, from LCDi4 to the Susvara, so that pre-amp stage is no fluke. That is just FYI. :slight_smile:
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 1:14 AM Post #4,882 of 12,815

sahmen

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On the cable front, I am finding the Norne Audio Silvergarde S3 to be an excellent pairing : Very smooth, detailed, airy, and digging out all the goodies from the entire frequency spectrum, while remaining very pleasant and non-fatiguing.
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 4:23 AM Post #4,883 of 12,815

Articnoise

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Okay, FYI : So I'm an official member of the"a 'fellowship of the Susvarians" since this morning. My unit (the Susvara) landed today, and so far I am listening to it on this system :

Sonore Optical module (optone audio LPS 1.5) ==>> Uptone Etherregen (Paul Hynes SR4T LPS) ==>> Metrum Ac Ambre (I2S) ==>> Sonnet D.Morpheus ==>> Flux Lab FA-10 ==>> Susvara

The Susvara replaced an HekSE in the same chain, and it took me less than one minute of listening to notice the improvements in SQ performance, although I am still a very ardent admirer of the HekSE and wish I have not had to trade it up for the Susvara...
r
And no... The FA-10 does not sound at all like a bottle-neck (or "weak link") in the chain. What I am hearing is this particular chain at its most resolving best, with the blackest background I have ever heard, at its most holographic best, and yet at its gentlest-on-the-ear best... And how delicate, musical, intoxicating and ethereal it all sounds, even when I am only a few hours into listening to the Susvara, so "burn-in" is extremely limited so far, and yet I can feel things opening up even more with each hour of listening.

It's too early to go into anymore specifics. I simply cannot speculate as to what more "burn-in" might bring to the table, so I find it more prudent to remain silent now. I can say this much though. The HeKSE to Susvara upgrade sounds like one that has gone in the right direction as far as synergy with the remaining system and outcome in SQ is concerned.

More to come, hence to be continued.

Congratulations!

FYI. Only after you have changed to something “better” you will know if something has act like a bottle-neck in your audio chain.
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 6:25 AM Post #4,884 of 12,815

sahmen

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Congratulations!

FYI. Only after you have changed to something “better” you will know if something has act like a bottle-neck in your audio chain.

Touché, but speaking of "something better," does any specific component readily come to mind...? Reading this forum alone from one end to the other, one seems to run across a dizzyingly long list of possibilities, most on the more pricy side of the fence, almost none of which I could get a chance to audition before the jump... It looks to me like a sort of murky rabbit hole in which any consensus about whatever passes for "better" or "the best" doesn't ever last very long, that is if there is even a real consensus one could speak of to start with... So if you have any practical suggestions, I am all ears (or eyes :slight_smile: )

PS. Unless of course, what you imply is that there are always going to be "bottlenecks" no matter what one owns, which is another conclusion one could draw from your point...(i.e. if one can always get something better than one has, which is the way things always seem to be in this hobby, then one always has some bottlenecks to deal with...Obviously, this is not what I meant to suggest when I mentioned not having any "bottlenecks," I know there are better amps out there)
 
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Oct 17, 2020 at 7:20 AM Post #4,885 of 12,815

Articnoise

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Touché, but speaking of "something better," does any specific component readily come to mind...? Reading this forum alone from one end to the other, one seems to run across a dizzyingly long list of possibilities, most on the more pricy side of the fence, almost none of which I could get a chance to audition before the jump... It looks to me like a sort of murky rabbit hole in which any consensus about whatever passes for "better" or "the best" doesn't ever last very long, that is if there is even a real consensus one could speak of to start with... So if you have any practical suggestions, I am all ears (or eyes :slight_smile: )

PS. Unless of course, what you imply is that there are always going to be "bottlenecks" no matter what one owns, which is another conclusion one could draw from your point...(i.e. if one can always get something better than one has, which is the way things always seem to be in this hobby, then one always has some bottlenecks to deal with...Obviously, this is not what meant to suggest when I mentioned not having any "bottlenecks," I know there are better amps out there

Bottleneck is not about "better" per se, it’s all about context. Meaning that one audio gear in one system can be a bottleneck, but in another system the same gear is not a bottleneck. It can even be the best part of that system :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: . A bottleneck is a part of a chain which seriously decrease the capacity/performance/SQ of the whole chain.
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 8:03 AM Post #4,886 of 12,815

sahmen

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Bottleneck is not about "better" per se, it’s all about context. Meaning that one audio gear in one system can be a bottleneck, but in another system the same gear is not a bottleneck. It can even be the best part of that system :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: . A bottleneck is a part of a chain which seriously decrease the capacity/performance/SQ of the whole chain.

Gotcha... Okay in that case, since the Susvara is sounding very effortless, very well resolved, detailed, spacious, airy, refined, full-throated and well-extended at both ends in this chain, as compared with anything I have ever heard before (including the HeKSE which was here before, and the LCD-4, which is still here), there must not be any bottlenecks that could be seriously decreasing or impeding its capacity to perform or its SQ, I assume? That's the way it seems now, at least as far as these ears can tell. Or if there are any, I cannot see or hear them, and that should be great for the time being... until it is not. :slight_smile:
 
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Oct 17, 2020 at 10:23 AM Post #4,887 of 12,815

donato

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Don't know what you need the pre for, but for what it's worth the Sonnet Morpheus has a preamp stage which calibrates well with my amp for very refined volume control. Just thought I should mention that. For example, there are some who find the Liquid Platinum's volume control problematic. It is not quite linear and has no high/low gain control. All too often times it seems jump from low to loud levels too fast for many users. Paired with the Sonnet Morpheus, I just set the LP's volume dial on the 1:30 position, and then control the volume with the Sonnet Morpheus, problem solved! And the Morpheus drives all my cans that way, from LCDi4 to the Susvara, so that pre-amp stage is no fluke. That is just FYI. :slight_smile:

Yes, I mean the pre for the Holo Spring May. The built in volume control for the Sonnet Morpheus and the Rockna Wavelight are definitely advantageous in that regard.
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 11:06 AM Post #4,888 of 12,815

donato

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Bottleneck is not about "better" per se, it’s all about context. Meaning that one audio gear in one system can be a bottleneck, but in another system the same gear is not a bottleneck. It can even be the best part of that system :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: . A bottleneck is a part of a chain which seriously decrease the capacity/performance/SQ of the whole chain.

<digression for a bit of a thought experiment>
All this talk about bottlenecking makes me think back to the manufacturing concept of the Theory of Constraints (I once worked at an audio related company that forced us to read this). In that model, you always have one link in your chain that is causing a contraint/bottleneck which reduces the performance of the entire line to the performance of that bottleneck. So, in the theory of constraints, you would essentially build excess capacity in the upstream links so that you could always allow the constrained resource to run at maximum capacity (which again, is ultimately limiting your entire throughput). You could always improve/upgrade a bottlneck item and then the bottleneck would shift somewhere else. Note that improving anything downstream of the bottleneck would not improve throughput.

So, if we applied this concept to a sound reproduction chain (I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but bear with me since it's just a thought experiment) and you wanted to get the most performance out of the Susvara then the Susvara should be the bottleneck (i.e. no bottleneck produced by any upstream component). So you could "overspec" all of the upstream items (all the way back to the source material) to make sure the Susvara performed at its best. This does not necessarily mean that this is the most efficient use of resources (in our case money spent on gear, etc.) because you might need to overspend on upstream items to optimize the bottleneck (i.e. the Susvara). This is also probably why the Theory of Constraints fell out of favor once JIT came around. It's also a bit more difficult to know where your bottleneck is with audio reproduction than when manufacturing physical items.
</digression>
 
Oct 17, 2020 at 12:17 PM Post #4,889 of 12,815

Articnoise

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<digression for a bit of a thought experiment>
All this talk about bottlenecking makes me think back to the manufacturing concept of the Theory of Constraints (I once worked at an audio related company that forced us to read this). In that model, you always have one link in your chain that is causing a contraint/bottleneck which reduces the performance of the entire line to the performance of that bottleneck. So, in the theory of constraints, you would essentially build excess capacity in the upstream links so that you could always allow the constrained resource to run at maximum capacity (which again, is ultimately limiting your entire throughput). You could always improve/upgrade a bottlneck item and then the bottleneck would shift somewhere else. Note that improving anything downstream of the bottleneck would not improve throughput.

So, if we applied this concept to a sound reproduction chain (I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but bear with me since it's just a thought experiment) and you wanted to get the most performance out of the Susvara then the Susvara should be the bottleneck (i.e. no bottleneck produced by any upstream component). So you could "overspec" all of the upstream items (all the way back to the source material) to make sure the Susvara performed at its best. This does not necessarily mean that this is the most efficient use of resources (in our case money spent on gear, etc.) because you might need to overspend on upstream items to optimize the bottleneck (i.e. the Susvara). This is also probably why the Theory of Constraints fell out of favor once JIT came around. It's also a bit more difficult to know where your bottleneck is with audio reproduction than when manufacturing physical items.
</digression>

No that is not really the meaning of a bottleneck. To be a bottleneck one part has to set the limits for the whole chain/system.

Bottleneck is a concept there one part of a chain is limiting the performance of the whole chain / system negatively. All attempts to improve other parts of the chain are therefore meaningless, because it’s the bottleneck that sets the limit.

It can also be described as the weakest link, if we do not fix *it*, the whole system will sound bad no matter if we improve other parts of the chain/system.
 
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Oct 17, 2020 at 12:38 PM Post #4,890 of 12,815

sahmen

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No that is not the meaning of a bottleneck. To be a bottleneck one part has to set the limits for the whole chain/system.

Bottleneck is a concept there one part of a chain is limiting the performance of the whole chain / system negatively. All attempts to improve other parts of the chain are therefore meaningless, because it’s the bottleneck that sets the limits. It can be described as the weakest link, if we do not fix *it*, the whole system will sound bad no matter if we improve other parts of the chain/system. Because a system (any kind of system) is never better than their weakest link. We shall therefore always work to eliminate the weakest link, aka bottleneck.

I do not think your explanation contradicts anything @donato has said. What you're saying is that the chain is as strong as its weakest link, which is understandable, as long as you're conceiving of the chain as one unified set made up "great" components which allow room for only one possible "weakest" link or "bottleneck." However, one could also see the chain as a combination of multiple components, all coming with different degrees of imperfection, which is not hard to imagine, given that no component is really ever completely perfect in practice, no matter how well-performing or expensive it might be. Seen in this light, the position of the weakest link can only shift from one component to another, as each last perceived "weakest link" is replaced by a better performer. The "weakest link" in a chain made up of such recognizably imperfect components, can only rotate its position indefinitely, and never entirely disappear, until one can find or set up a chain with a set of perfect parts, which does not really exist in practice, at least as far as I can tell personally...

By the way, in case you're wondering, I still think the Susvara rocks, and I am enjoying every minute of it, regardless of whatever imperfections it might have, and that is what ever counts, in my book (Okay, I only said that about the Susvara to make this post seem relevant, and topical as we seem to be digressing, and going off-topic :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: ).

So back to the Susvara?
 
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