[AussieMick]

On pricing: the market will determine what’s overpriced and what isn’t.

On preference and what’s “better”: I can absolutely see people preferring any Meze over Susvara or anything else, because they don’t actually want what those headphones offer. Anyone implying they’re wrong are out of touch with humanity. To the person who prefers the Meze, the Meze is better.

If there was any one “truth” that everyone followed, then cost no object headphones (speakers, amps, DACs…) would be converging on the same sound. Well, they clearly aren’t. Preference matters.

And finally, I’ve not yet seen a headphone review that discusses what a product is actually like to live with long term. Some reviewers confessing that it takes three days to do a review. In my book (which is just mine and I understand many will disagree) three days i is a simply not enough to know whether or not the combinations of virtues will be to your own taste in your own system with your own music and how that headphone responds on your own head.

The Immanis is an exciting prospect that I’d dearly love to spend (a lot of) time with, and even if it bows my mind with what it does, it won’t negate all of the wonderful experiences I’ve had listening to music in my home with other gear. It might well be superior, but it doesn’t make the Susvara sound “worse”, just as Susvara didn’t make a HD600 Sound worse.

This arms race is just silly.

 

[resakal]

Narukami is a 100K amp which is 1.3x the price of a HE-1 and Immanis on a Jotunheim R is 10x less costly than a Narukami with Susvara OG. I don't really think it's a good comparison if you need a 100K amp just to have an edge against Immanis being driven by a $300 USD amp. I really hope the Narukami can be showcased at CanJam SoCal so I can finally hear it myself as well and should definitely reignite what I love about Susvara once again now that my mind is full of unforgettable demo experience of the Immanis, and that's against a Susvara driven by Woo WA23 Luna which to me is in the top 5 amps for Susvara

I have cfa3 and el156 preamp (all diy build by a very talented man here), for me that combo even better than aic10/primavera/viva845 i own before, cant wait to compare SusvaraOG/Susvara Unveiled/Immanis on my chain. But the dealer tell me wait until December, the September batch dont have enough unit for me. I wait from May, cant beleived

 

[up late]

On pricing: the market will determine what’s overpriced and what isn’t.

On preference and what’s “better”: I can absolutely see people preferring any Meze over Susvara or anything else, because they don’t actually want what those headphones offer. Anyone implying they’re wrong are out of touch with humanity. To the person who prefers the Meze, the Meze is better.

If there was any one “truth” that everyone followed, then cost no object headphones (speakers, amps, DACs…) would be converging on the same sound. Well, they clearly aren’t. Preference matters.

And finally, I’ve not yet seen a headphone review that discusses what a product is actually like to live with long term. Some reviewers confessing that it takes three days to do a review. In my book (which is just mine and I understand many will disagree) three days i is a simply not enough to know whether or not the combinations of virtues will be to your own taste in your own system with your own music and how that headphone responds on your own head.

The Immanis is an exciting prospect that I’d dearly love to spend (a lot of) time with, and even if it bows my mind with what it does, it won’t negate all of the wonderful experiences I’ve had listening to music in my home with other gear. It might well be superior, but it doesn’t make the Susvara sound “worse”, just as Susvara didn’t make a HD600 Sound worse.

This arms race is just silly.

and all too predictable ime. i find it tiresome and off-putting.

 

[up late]

I know, and the Empy 2 has significantly improved technicalities compared to their previous models, that's why it gets more recommendations.
Also, please don't take DMS too serious who says that it "sounds like a mini HE-1", yeah, sure (to be fair, i can't really judge that fact but i think it's a lot of bullcrap).

I have to add that i also think that sound is not everything, but it's the most important thing (for me). I even tolerate very heavy headphones.
I will buy a ZMF because i want to own a stabilized piece of art from them, and on top i really think that the Caldera Closed will end my searches for a closed back planar (which i think there are only bad ones prior to it).
Meze and ZMF go in the direction, they not only prioritize sound to appeal to the market, which i think is very fair. But when it comes to pure technicalities, those two are not competing versus Hifiman, but they don't have to.
Hifiman goes into the other direction and thinks that it's ok to have an open, extremely vulnerable membrane with an annoying veil system shipped to the customer (i think it's not).

did i mention dms? i'm pretty sure that i didn't but thanks for the considered advice.

i wouldn't presume to know what market meze and zmf are targeting but i suspect that it's niche rather than mass. as for 'pure technicalities', i think that the zmf caldera is highly technical while being eminently listenable and that's no mean feat imo. i also happen to prefer the meze elite to the empyrean 2. i guess that disqualifies me from being a 'real audiophile' according to your criteria.

 

[danielgregori]

Friends! There was a review here https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/hifiman-susvara-unveiled.27462/reviews that said that the highs of the new Susvara Un sound a little softer than the Susvara Og. For example, the cymbals sounds a little more emphasized on Susvara Og than on Susvara Un. Who has already received their Susvara, how are things going with the cymbals in the final model compared to Og?

 

[paradoxper]

On pricing: the market will determine what’s overpriced and what isn’t.

On preference and what’s “better”: I can absolutely see people preferring any Meze over Susvara or anything else, because they don’t actually want what those headphones offer. Anyone implying they’re wrong are out of touch with humanity. To the person who prefers the Meze, the Meze is better.

If there was any one “truth” that everyone followed, then cost no object headphones (speakers, amps, DACs…) would be converging on the same sound. Well, they clearly aren’t. Preference matters.

And finally, I’ve not yet seen a headphone review that discusses what a product is actually like to live with long term. Some reviewers confessing that it takes three days to do a review. In my book (which is just mine and I understand many will disagree) three days i is a simply not enough to know whether or not the combinations of virtues will be to your own taste in your own system with your own music and how that headphone responds on your own head.

The Immanis is an exciting prospect that I’d dearly love to spend (a lot of) time with, and even if it bows my mind with what it does, it won’t negate all of the wonderful experiences I’ve had listening to music in my home with other gear. It might well be superior, but it doesn’t make the Susvara sound “worse”, just as Susvara didn’t make a HD600 Sound worse.

This arms race is just silly.

To be blunt, I'm sick of reading paragraphs of God-like extolling from those who heard it five minutes in passing.

The noise is ridiculous. And between this and RAAL threads, I've never blocked so many people in all my time within the Head-Fi community.

 

[up late]

^ happy listening!

 

[Frankie D]

Narukami is a 100K amp which is 1.3x the price of a HE-1 and Immanis on a Jotunheim R is 10x less costly than a Narukami with Susvara OG. I don't really think it's a good comparison if you need a 100K amp just to have an edge against Immanis being driven by a $300 USD amp. I really hope the Narukami can be showcased at CanJam SoCal so I can finally hear it myself as well and should definitely reignite what I love about Susvara once again now that my mind is full of unforgettable demo experience of the Immanis, and that's against a Susvara driven by Woo WA23 Luna which to me is in the top 5 amps for Susvara

The Immanis and Magna were not on a $300.00 amplifier, they were attached to the VM1-A. But I do agree, completely unfair, and only a show based comparison. The quiet of the room used for the NARUKAMI audition alone will account for a huge difference. That is why I stated what I heard it on and used the term system.

Was it emotion, the room, the amplifier? Time will reveal the answer.

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on the NARUKAMI at SoCal with the Sus. Maybe you can also attach your Immanis? I did not like it with the AT headphone. Tks.

 

[Exekuhtor]

If you are agreeing the Sus is superior in the midrange, 3D Imaging and Layering, that is allot to give up and yet prefer the Immanis or Magna.

It's only clearly superior in the midrange and maybe in the ability to sound both further away and very intimate (never as big and grandious as the Immanis of course). I think the Susvara Unveiled has the best midrange out of all planars while also having very good (but not the best) technicalities. Layering and Imaging is also superb on the new Raals. But to be honest, after having heard the Magna for a song and then switching back to the Unveiled, the Magna sounded so much snappier and just way more engaging.
But yeah, if you want the best midrange or a headphone that can sound very intimate and enjoyable, the Unveiled is very good at that, but it's too expensive nevertheless and i would choose Magna over the Unveiled in 9/10 cases. The dynamics are also a downgrade from the OG Susvara in my opinion, which does not help at all, because the Magna can slam really hard, way harder than a perfectly driven OG Susvara.

 

[danielgregori]

It's only clearly superior in the midrange and maybe in the ability to sound both further away and very intimate (never as big and grandious as the Immanis of course). I think the Susvara Unveiled has the best midrange out of all planars while also having very good (but not the best) technicalities. Layering and Imaging is also superb on the new Raals. But to be honest, after having heard the Magna for a song and then switching back to the Unveiled, the Magna sounded so much snappier and just way more engaging.
But yeah, if you want the best midrange or a headphone that can sound very intimate and enjoyable, the Unveiled is very good at that, but it's too expensive nevertheless and i would choose Magna over the Unveiled in 9/10 cases. The dynamics are also a downgrade from the OG Susvara in my opinion, which does not help at all, because the Magna can slam really hard, way harder than a perfectly driven OG Susvara.

I have a dealer who will give me a new Susvara for $6500. I can’t say who he is, otherwise he’ll definitely be deprived of his license ))) But is this a good price, in your opinion? As far as I understand, the ideal is to have 2 pairs of headphones now: the new Susvara and Immanis.

 

[DJJEZ]

I have a dealer who will give me a new Susvara for $6500. I can’t say who he is, otherwise he’ll definitely be deprived of his license ))) But is this a good price, in your opinion?

nope as you can get them for $5750. most places are $6000. ask around other dealers.

 

[danielgregori]

nope as you can get them for $5750. most places are $6000. ask around other dealers.

Good! Maybe you know what price immanis sell for on average now?

 

[Spawn300Z]

Delete

 

[nwavesailor]

Good! Maybe you know what price immanis sell for on average now?

With a long waiting list I don’t think you will get much off the Immanis. They are also sold direct.

 

[nwavesailor]

To be blunt, I'm sick of reading paragraphs of God-like extolling from those who heard it five minutes in passing.

The noise is ridiculous. And between this and RAAL threads, I've never blocked so many people in all my time within the Head-Fi community.

Yeah!
Thankfully there isn’t a thread for those way over the top whacky Elrog kooks!