[lapzoo]

Got my Sundaras a few days ago, and with it I ordered the FiiO K3... not knowing that the Sundaras would be that hard to drive. I have to put gain and volume all the way up to arrive at my favored loudness. Most music sounds amazing. But! I actually listen to rock mainly, and of course there are lots of passages where lots of instruments are playing at the same time, and then the sound appears like, well... I would describe it as dirty. Unresolving is the better term I guess? Almost like what a 360p video on youtube would sound like back in the days. Cymbals sound awful: when there are lots of crashes the headphones sound the worst. 'S'es peaks very high, it almost hurts my ears. As soon as the song becomes more relaxed again, sound goes back to sounding really amazing. I already ordered the FiiO K5 now as it offers way more power, and will return the K3.

My questions now are: is the Sundara maybe generally not suited for the stuff I'm listening to? Do you think it's really mostly the amps fault and it will become better with a more powerful amp? Maybe it's just my ears?

 

[Seazer]

Got my Sundaras a few days ago, and with it I ordered the FiiO K3... not knowing that the Sundaras would be that hard to drive. I have to put gain and volume all the way up to arrive at my favored loudness. Most music sounds amazing. But! I actually listen to rock mainly, and of course there are lots of passages where lots of instruments are playing at the same time, and then the sound appears like, well... I would describe it as dirty. Unresolving is the better term I guess? Almost like what a 360p video on youtube would sound like back in the days. Cymbals sound awful: when there are lots of crashes the headphones sound the worst. 'S'es peaks very high, it almost hurts my ears. As soon as the song becomes more relaxed again, sound goes back to sounding really amazing. I already ordered the FiiO K5 now as it offers way more power, and will return the K3.

My questions now are: is the Sundara maybe generally not suited for the stuff I'm listening to? Do you think it's really mostly the amps fault and it will become better with a more powerful amp? Maybe it's just my ears?

It is very likely your amp. A Topping E30 and Schiit Magni 3+ would be a great combo that could definitely power it, for not much more than your K5. The K5 does have a lot more power than K3 so even with that it should in theory sound better. (fiio sounds kinda meh in my opinion though)

 

[dpump]

Fiio K5 Pro is a very nice sounding amp/dac. Even if someone doesn't like earlier Fiio products that doesn't mean they should be saying something negative about a newer product if they haven't heard it. I'm very happy with my K5 Pro and I have other amps that are much more expensive to compare to.

 

[coletrain104]

Hey guys, just came here to ask out of curiosity, is the Sundara isodynamic? I can see magnets on the outer driver side but haven't seen/found pics of the inner side. I'm wondering whether Hifiman is generally moving away from the isodynamic designs. also curious because earlier models measured so similarly to HE-400i, which I like a lot.

 

[Matoriv]

It is very likely your amp. A Topping E30 and Schiit Magni 3+ would be a great combo that could definitely power it, for not much more than your K5. The K5 does have a lot more power than K3 so even with that it should in theory sound better. (fiio sounds kinda meh in my opinion though)

hmm interesting..

Between the K5 pro and the Topping E30 + Magni 3+/Heresy (or the upcoming Topping L30), which would you think is better for the Sundara?
Edit: just to add on, am planning to use it for both Sundara and Audioengine A5+ speakers.

Do i really need to disconnect my headphones from the K5 pro? is that the same for most amps/dacs?

 

[bagwell359]

Hey guys, just came here to ask out of curiosity, is the Sundara isodynamic? I can see magnets on the outer driver side but haven't seen/found pics of the inner side. I'm wondering whether Hifiman is generally moving away from the isodynamic designs. also curious because earlier models measured so similarly to HE-400i, which I like a lot.

Yes. No they (HFM) are heavily involved with planars.

 

[coletrain104]

Yes. No they (HFM) are heavily involved with planars.

So they are isodynamic? Not sure I get the "Yes. No..." thing. I am aware HFM is heavily involved with planars, but the rest of their current line is orthodynamic as opposed to isodynamic.

 

[Avilanche]

Got my Sundaras a few days ago, and with it I ordered the FiiO K3... not knowing that the Sundaras would be that hard to drive. I have to put gain and volume all the way up to arrive at my favored loudness. Most music sounds amazing. But! I actually listen to rock mainly, and of course there are lots of passages where lots of instruments are playing at the same time, and then the sound appears like, well... I would describe it as dirty. Unresolving is the better term I guess? Almost like what a 360p video on youtube would sound like back in the days. Cymbals sound awful: when there are lots of crashes the headphones sound the worst. 'S'es peaks very high, it almost hurts my ears. As soon as the song becomes more relaxed again, sound goes back to sounding really amazing. I already ordered the FiiO K5 now as it offers way more power, and will return the K3.

My questions now are: is the Sundara maybe generally not suited for the stuff I'm listening to? Do you think it's really mostly the amps fault and it will become better with a more powerful amp? Maybe it's just my ears?

I could chip in my experience with a month old Sundaras here. i was coming from an ATH M50 which i felt was super good for my ears, so you know where i am coming from - maybe i like the V shaped sound of the ATH M50, with higher bass and treble and slightly recessed mids. For me, they sounded great!! And, when i unboxed the Sundaras (which was a blind buy as i wanted to own a planar headset, reading all the reviews and being in my budget) and the First listen broke my heart and thought i had done the wrong decision to go with Sundaras... mind you, there were details, and lots of them..but it sounded a bit hollow for my taste, the highs were super clear but bright and the bass was no where near to where my ATH M50 was... so instead of thinking this as an upgrade, i momentarily felt it as a downgrade!
Then the story unfolds - i realised that these are separate beasts, they need great amount of power to drive, an ample amount. When i played my Sundaras first, i was using the Fiio A3 amp and like u said i had to put it in GAIN mode and as well as the bass boost, and even with the HIGHEST volume it felt all squeezed up. I could hear/sense that the sound coming out wasnt that free or it didnt have enough headroom. So, i have ordered the Chord mojo and will wait to drive the sundaras with it. Another aspect is the “burn-in” - i know this is highly debated. But however one looks at it, i DO think my Sundaras mellowed down after around 200 hours of burn it and Now i could sense better bass and slightly controlled highs. It’s getting better with the day... and waiting for the Chord mojo now..
so yes, when I read your experience about Fiio K3, i think i had the similar experience with the Fiio A3 - need a good power amp to run these. And burning in. these two should make the Sundaras shine!
thank you!

 

[JamminVMI]

Got my Sundaras a few days ago, and with it I ordered the FiiO K3... not knowing that the Sundaras would be that hard to drive. I have to put gain and volume all the way up to arrive at my favored loudness. Most music sounds amazing. But! I actually listen to rock mainly, and of course there are lots of passages where lots of instruments are playing at the same time, and then the sound appears like, well... I would describe it as dirty. Unresolving is the better term I guess? Almost like what a 360p video on youtube would sound like back in the days. Cymbals sound awful: when there are lots of crashes the headphones sound the worst. 'S'es peaks very high, it almost hurts my ears. As soon as the song becomes more relaxed again, sound goes back to sounding really amazing. I already ordered the FiiO K5 now as it offers way more power, and will return the K3.

My questions now are: is the Sundara maybe generally not suited for the stuff I'm listening to? Do you think it's really mostly the amps fault and it will become better with a more powerful amp? Maybe it's just my ears?

Planars are interesting beasts. Though most (including Sundara) have low impedance values, they need power to be all that they can be (apologies to the US Army there). I know mine did not sound good with my Fiio Mont Blanc - basically, the same muddiness in many areas that you describe. So
i applied power. Moved to Schiit Magni 3, which was much better, then to overkill with Asgard 3, which is just right. Al muddiness gone, Sundara are sublime. Try more power before you sell off the Sundara.

 

[descloud]

hmm interesting..

Between the K5 pro and the Topping E30 + Magni 3+/Heresy (or the upcoming Topping L30), which would you think is better for the Sundara?

The Topping E30 and Magni 3+/Heresy has the better measurements output than the Fiio K5 Pro. I would go for that stack over the K5 Pro if I were in your shoes since you have better headroom overall. Whether you can tell the difference, is something you'd have to do an A/B comparison.

If you are tight on budget, you can settle for the K5 Pro, but if you have the budget, I say go for the E30 + Magni 3+/Heresy stack instead.

 

[descloud]

Planars are interesting beasts. Though most (including Sundara) have low impedance values, they need power to be all that they can be

It's because of their relatively low sensitivity paired with their low impedance that they require more current for the same voltage input. Planars with those types of ratings generally require more current compared to high impedance dynamic headphones like the HD600 or the Beyer DT series - that generally just require higher voltage.

 

[Matoriv]

The Topping E30 and Magni 3+/Heresy has the better measurements output than the Fiio K5 Pro. I would go for that stack over the K5 Pro if I were in your shoes since you have better headroom overall. Whether you can tell the difference, is something you'd have to do an A/B comparison.

If you are tight on budget, you can settle for the K5 Pro, but if you have the budget, I say go for the E30 + Magni 3+/Heresy stack instead.

ok thanks, i do have some budget so looks like its the E30 + Magni or L30 then

 

[bagwell359]

So they are isodynamic? Not sure I get the "Yes. No..." thing. I am aware HFM is heavily involved with planars, but the rest of their current line is orthodynamic as opposed to isodynamic.

You asked two questions.

Yes this model is planar

No, HFM is not leaving behind planar, in fact they make mostly planars and show no signs of stopping. Go to their site, go to headphones, 2 estats and about 28 planars.

 

[yeboyi]

hmm interesting..

Between the K5 pro and the Topping E30 + Magni 3+/Heresy (or the upcoming Topping L30), which would you think is better for the Sundara?
Edit: just to add on, am planning to use it for both Sundara and Audioengine A5+ speakers.

Do i really need to disconnect my headphones from the K5 pro? is that the same for most amps/dacs?

Objective standpoint Topping E30+L30 stack is godlike and unbeatable. They are perfect.

 

[yeboyi]

Planars are interesting beasts. Though most (including Sundara) have low impedance values, they need power to be all that they can be (apologies to the US Army there). I know mine did not sound good with my Fiio Mont Blanc - basically, the same muddiness in many areas that you describe. So
i applied power. Moved to Schiit Magni 3, which was much better, then to overkill with Asgard 3, which is just right. Al muddiness gone, Sundara are sublime. Try more power before you sell off the Sundara.

Actually low impedance headphone requires more elegant, higher quality amp. You can brute force the high impedance headphones but low impedance ones requires better amp in my opinion. Most amps focusing to deliver the premise of drive ability of high impedance ''hard to drive'' headphones.