[JimL11]

Agreed. Stax doesn't "pump" new models into the market every year, either, and they are still around. The first Quad electrostatic was sold from about 1955 to 1983 with only one change, then they introduced the ESL63, which went unchanged for many years. And actually, if you look closely, auto models remain basically unchanged for several years, with only minor details modified from year to year, then they get a big update to a new version. And every auto company probably has more engineers than the entire headphone industry combined.

HFM reminds me of a snarky comment made about Wilson speakers when they introduced one of their many updates, "Maybe this time they'll get it right."

 

[purk]

Yup, very true about Stax but now they are starting to change with the 6.5k T8000. Perhaps HFM and AK would like that credit?

 

[astrostar59]

Yup, very true about Stax but now they are starting to change with the 6.5k T8000. Perhaps HFM and AK would like that credit?

I wouldn't have a problem with that if the T-8000 was up to scratch, it isn't and IMO was far behind my Carbon. I expect any audio company to make a mark-up and some profit, but 3 times the price of a 727 for a small increase in sound quality, ......

 

[VandyMan]

Stax doesn't "pump" new models into the market every year, either, and they are still around.

Of course they did go bankrupt and had to sell out to a large conglomerate. I notice that the companies that have a slower update cycle tend to be diversified while the worst offenders sell only headphones (and amps).

 

[mulveling]

Stax and Sennheiser have a damn near ideal release cycle for top-level headphones, and their best offerings remain relevant in the summit-fi discussion arena for years if not decades (007, 009, 600/650/800, he90). When they release a new one, the old one doesn't fall off the map -- because they have an enduring quality to their designs; something that's lacking in the planar-magnetic sphere (almost comical to watch over the past few years). They're not good amp companies, but nearly perfect at headphones.

That said, Sennheiser now needs something new and great to fill the gap between HD800 and HE-1. And Stax could do well with an SR-010, but the 009 is still kicking ass. Unfortunately we'll likely have dozens of Hifiman flavors-of-the-month before either of those momentous head-fi events comes to pass (basically a sideshow to pass the time before the giants move again).

 

[JimL11]

Of course they did go bankrupt and had to sell out to a large conglomerate. I notice that the companies that have a slower update cycle tend to be diversified while the worst offenders sell only headphones (and amps).

I think that had more to do with underpricing the SRM-T2 (reportedly they lost money on every unit sold), along with its reliability issues due to inadequate heat management, more than its update cycle times.

 

[raypin]

Mm...for me, I do not really care if the upgrade cycle of manufacturers is slow or fast. I buy headphones not to upgrade for upgrade sake. I buy headphones because it suits my needs and wants. It is I who dictate my own upgrade cycle, not the headphone makers. If the new headphone on offer fails my personal standard (sq, build quality, durability, value, price, features etc.), I do not buy it.

Secondly, let them introduce more models. It only means that we, the end-users, have *MORE* choice or options once upgrade time comes. If your old headphones still meets your expectations and needs and wants, why would you even care if a new, improved flagship model or models are introduced? What is offending there? I don't get it. Here's a thought: what if your totl suddenly dies (and it is out of warranty and irrepairable)? Would you buy the exact same model because the manufacturer is taking its own sweet time to introduce a new totl headphone(s), counted in years or decades even, or would you rather have the option to buy the new, improved totl models? Or would you settle for a downgrade? Lol!

Third, when you buy a totl hp, you buy it because it meets you standards and you pay for it based solely on its merits and *NOT* on some nebulous, nonsensical promise that the manufacturer of that particular headphone guarantees that they will not release a new flagship model unless it is on your own time. That is pure nonsense. If you want that guarantee, I know of only one headphone system that fulfills that criterea: the HE 1. Straight from them, I've been told that the current Orpheus will remain unchanged for the next 20 years.

Fourth, it is hard enough choosing just the right totl headphones. There aren't a lot of them, only a handful even if HFM seems to be churning them out at a faster clip than others. Having more choice means being able to tick a lot more check boxes and brings you closer to having and enjoying your ideal totl hp.

 

[mulveling]

Mmm...OK. More crappy choices. Yay us!!

 

[purk]

There aren't a lot of them, only a handful even if HFM seems to be churning them out at a faster clip than others. Having more choice means being able to tick a lot more check boxes and brings you closer to having and enjoying your ideal totl hp.

Mmm...OK. More crappy choices. Yay us!!

Totally agreed with more choices doesn't equate a great choice. I don't need a new flagship headphones from the same MFG every year. I want to buy one that is very thought out and well engineered and stand up against other new flagships for many years to come. Sennheiser accomplished this with the HD800/800S and the Stax did so with both the SR007 & SR009.

 

[raypin]

Mm...I have the HD 800, 800S, Focal Utopia, Stax 009, T1.2, Ether, Ether C, HE 1000 and the Z1R. I've also auditioned the LCD 4. I'm sorry to say that none of them meets my criterea for my ideal TOTL headphones. They all have weaknesses, ANNOYING weaknesses. Only the HE 1 passes my standard, with flying colors. The 009 can compete with it but barely.

Unfortunately, the HD 800 and 800S are no longer TOTL. Annoying sibilance, hard to drive, weak bass. The Utopia is better. The 800 soundstage is exaggerated and artificial. It is also a cold-sounding, too analytical HP. The Stax 009, imo, fares better but it lacks soul (can be analytical, unmusical, weak bass (some say with the BHSE, it is a different beast) and bright (annoying, sharp treble in some tracks). About the only thing going for the 800/800S is its price tag (excellent value though). Sorry it fails for me and it does not stand the test of time. Which is why I am looking forward to the 800/800s successor.

Last year, Tyll retired the HD 800 from his Wall of Fame and I agree with the rating downgrade. The 800S is an improvement and I easily prefer it to the 800.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

There are no real weaknesses in high-end and well established models, only different flavors.

For my taste, I rank HE1 on par with 009+BHSE (with my Mesa Boogie tubes). I very (very) like them. But if I wanted to be dishonest / of bad faith and rant against them with exaggerating words, I could easily write something like this :
- HE1's tone is too dark to be true
- they're a tad cold / too polite, lack some excitement
- they're slow for an estat, slower than Utopia too, too slow all around
- bass is a bit blurry. 009 are more impactful with more texture, Utopia kicks way harder, and well driven HE6 literally crush HE1 in that area
- details are not that good, 009 are better, HD800 are way better
- soundstage is so-so. Narrower than HD800, less deep than 009, far less deep than Utopia

Note that I could exactly perform the same bad faith exercise for 009 which are my favourite cans to date, to produce what looks like a realistic criticism :
- too fast to be true
- fake to annoying high mids, depending on amplification
- lacks volume / grandeur in bass, lots of cheaper cans are better in that area
- lacks impact compared to Utopia, humiliated by HE6 in that area
- not on par with HD800 for details, way way behind on average amplification
- diffuse soundstage
- all around soft / plastic tone of estat
- laughable headband and clicking system looking at the price
etc, etc...

So the widest choice in high-end could be something you need for your tastes, but other people (like me) don't necessarily crave for new (and expensive) toys to consume precisely with a consumer-only mindset, and are at the same time fully aware of weaknesses of their own choices...even when those choices are stupidly expensive. And I fully undertake my stupidity in this hobby

Ali

 

[raypin]

Mm...lol!

A friend of mine tested my HE 1 (standalone) and my Focal Utopia (Chord Dave). He prefers the Utopia. I respect his right to express his opinion. But, secretly, I wanted to bash open his head with my HE 1. 25 kgs ought to do the job.

 

[chinsettawong]

It's too bad that you guys are not into DIY headphones.

 

[raypin]

Mm..sorry but I am technically-challenged, which is a polite way of saying that I am ignorant when it comes to such matter.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

It's too bad that you guys are not into DIY headphones.

Obviously we do have neither your will nor your skills, Wachara...admit it, you're posting here to make us drool over your awesome achievements
(Yes, I'm drooling )

Ali