[ToroFiestaSol]

I am doing a similar thing moving to speakers. Just renovated my 40sq living room layout for new hifi setup with room acoustic treatment and it's a lot of effort and tweaking to optimise. Actually after venturing to hifi, 8k is not a lot for e-stat hp with amp.

Yup, that's what smart money does

I think it is a lot for the "legendary" Hifiman build quality, the problem lies on the HE-1 and Shangri-La priced at 50k, which gives the "is not that expensive" perception of 8k for headphone and amplifier. I think that top Stax + KG amp justifies the 8k expense, not only for build quality alone but if you search there is the general consensus and reputation for "state of the art", not a single negative comment, the same can't be said about this.

Speakers and dedicated room are the way to go for more money, handsome and intelligent gentlemans like us know it

 

[raypin]

Mm..yeah....mm....I was referring to the external design of the amp only.....based on a tiny picture.

If that estat amp uses 300B tubes like the Shangri-La, then it is not the best design. The problem with the 300

If that estat amp uses 300B tubes like the Shangri-La, then it is not the best design. The problem with the 300B tube for this application is that it has no more voltage swing than a 6SN7GTA/B and needs significantly more current than is necessary for the purpose in order to have good linearity - a typical operating point for the 300B is 350 volts at 60 mA. By contrast a 6SN7GTA/B can be run at 350 volts and 7 mA with good linearity for the same voltage swing, a triode-connected EL34 can be run at 400-450 volts at 20 mA with good linearity for significantly higher voltage swing. I would also guess that the amplifier uses plate resistor outputs, as constant current output loads would require external heatsinks. Unfortunately, plate resistor output loads are a non-optimum solution to the problem.

 

[FastAndClean]

How about the headphones alone without the amp ?

it will cost you 6000 dollars, but you need to use eq to tame the treble, treble is tuned to be piercing for better clarity

 

[purk]

To be fair, it is $2000 cheaper than 10k. Most Hifiman products have horrendous resale value. Why would u want to spend 8k on it when u can buy it for 60% a year later? Case in point, you will be lucky to sell the HEK V1 for $1400.

 

[mulveling]

it will cost you 6000 dollars, but you need to us eq to tame the treble, treble is tuned to be piercing for better clarity

Is this really hifi or are we back to loudness buttons and tone knobs now?

 

[Whitigir]

Is this really hifi or are we back to loudness buttons and tone knobs now?

We are pass the Hi-fi lines of return, but we are into Hi-Ri....or High-Reeling points of beginning. Everything beyond this point will be reeling in a boat load of money because it sound good

 

[VandyMan]

We are pass the Hi-fi lines of return, but we are into Hi-Ri....or High-Reeling points of beginning. Everything beyond this point will be reeling in a boat load of money because it sound good

Funny, but come on... Didn't you buy/build your STAX/KGGG system because it sounds good, even though it is expensive? I think that you just dislike Hifiman. (I don't own any of their gear, but I'm always interested to read about new high-end headphones). If you are willing to spend 10K on a headphone system, attacking a company for selling an 8K system is a bit contradictory.

 

[purk]

Funny, but come on... Didn't you buy/build your STAX/KGGG system because it sounds good, even though it is expensive? I think that you just dislike Hifiman. (I don't own any of their gear, but I'm always interested to read about new high-end headphones). If you are willing to spend 10K on a headphone system, attacking a company for selling an 8K system is a bit contradictory.

I doubt that he spent 10k on it. At the most 3.5k for the sr009 and 3k at the amp totaling 6.5k at the most without any markups on the amp.

 

[VandyMan]

If so, I stand corrected. However, as much as I don't like the upward trend in the market, I think Hifiman is being unfairly singled out. They are part of the trend, but they were not first and are not alone. And 8K for a full electrostatic system while very expensive is not out of line with the rest of the market. To me, the interesting questions are how it sounds and how it compares to competitors in sound and value.

 

[JimL11]

If so, I stand corrected. However, as much as I don't like the upward trend in the market, I think Hifiman is being unfairly singled out. They are part of the trend, but they were not first and are not alone. And 8K for a full electrostatic system while very expensive is not out of line with the rest of the market. To me, the interesting questions are how it sounds and how it compares to competitors in sound and value.

I disagree. Sennheiser's HE-1 was the first "mega-yacht" level priced headphone system at approximately $50,000. Now, you can argue whether it is worth it or not, but I accept that they did a significant amount of research to come up with this system, and in conjunction with the materials cost of a slab of Carrera marble, and the gimmicky moving tubes and opening box, I can see at least some justification for the price. Sennheiser also has a reputation, built over decades, for reliability and standing behind its products for the long haul.

With HFM and their $50,000+ Shangri-La, I do not see either years of research involved, Sennheiser level reliability, or super-expensive materials to justify the cost, just a price piggy-backed on Sennheiser's pricing, in an apparent attempt to persuade buyers that since it costs as much, it must be just as good. Perhaps HFM is betting that the high end Chinese market judges by price as much as sound, but that seems to be a "there's a sucker born every minute" mentality.

As for HFM's $8k system, one has to ask what was left out of it compared to the $50k+ system. Either the $8k is grossly underpriced, or the $50k+ is grossly overpriced.

 

[Whitigir]

I disagree. Sennheiser's HE-1 was the first "mega-yacht" level priced headphone system at approximately $50,000. Now, you can argue whether it is worth it or not, but I accept that they did a significant amount of research to come up with this system, and in conjunction with the materials cost of a slab of Carrera marble, and the gimmicky moving tubes and opening box, I can see at least some justification for the price. Sennheiser also has a reputation, built over decades, for reliability and standing behind its products for the long haul.

With HFM and their $50,000+ Shangri-La, I do not see either years of research involved, Sennheiser level reliability, or super-expensive materials to justify the cost, just a price piggy-backed on Sennheiser's pricing, in an apparent attempt to persuade buyers that since it costs as much, it must be just as good. Perhaps HFM is betting that the high end Chinese market judges by price as much as sound, but that seems to be a "there's a sucker born every minute" mentality.

As for HFM's $8k system, one has to ask what was left out of it compared to the $50k+ system. Either the $8k is grossly underpriced, or the $50k+ is grossly overpriced.

Or it is a whole lot more being missed out

 

[VandyMan]

And yet, Head-Fi is full of posts praising the Shangri-La. I was one of the first people (Feb 2017) to post that I thought the Suvrasa was better than the Shangri-la in a short demo and got accused by wink of having "tin ears" for my trouble. So, while I agree that it is not worth 50K, plenty of folks here seem to feel that it is competitive with the HE-1.

 

[VandyMan]

Plus, the headphone we are discussing is 8K including amp, not 50K. I suppose you are saying that by offering the 50K model they have so tainted their brand that they can no longer make any legitimate expensive gear?

 

[JimL11]

Plus, the headphone we are discussing is 8K including amp, not 50K. I suppose you are saying that by offering the 50K model they have so tainted their brand that they can no longer make any legitimate expensive gear?

No, here's what I'm saying. Assume for a moment that the $8k price is legitimate based on materials cost, research, etc. (the usual materials cost to final price ratio for high end equipment is traditionally around 5X), the question becomes, what is the additional materials cost that bumps a $8k system up to $50k. It's not at all apparent from what we see IMHO. OTOH, assume the $50k+ cost is legitimate. Then how can they make anything close, i.e. Junior, for a "mere" $8k. The point is that the pricing structure makes no sense, other than as an attempt to price the Shangri-La at the HE-1 level to entice persons who judge sound quality by price.

 

[FastAndClean]

if it s a system and it sound better than 009 with blue hawaii than 8k is not too much